[lv42day]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

https://slate.com/business/2023/04/c...n-hyundai.html

You don’t see a lot of good news about road safety in the United States. Unlike in most peer countries, American roadway deaths surged during the pandemic and have barely receded since. Pedestrian and cyclist fatalities recently hit their highest levels in 40 years, but U.S. transportation officials continue to ignore key contributing factors. In a February interview with Fast Company, Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg said that “further research” is needed before addressing the obvious risks that oversized SUVs and trucks pose to those not inside of them.

Happily, there is one area where we are making at least marginal progress: A growing number of automakers are backpedaling away from the huge, complex touchscreens that have infested dashboard design over the past 15 years. Buttons and knobs are coming back.

The touchscreen pullback is the result of consumer backlash, not the enactment of overdue regulations or an awakening of corporate responsibility. Many drivers want buttons, not screens, and they’ve given carmakers an earful about it. Auto executives have long brushed aside safety concerns about their complex displays—and all signs suggest they would have happily kept doing so. But their customers are revolting, which has forced them to pay attention.

For well over a decade, touchscreens have spread like a rash across dashboards. As with other dangerous trends in car design (see the steering yoke), this one can be traced back to Tesla, which has for years positioned its vehicles as “tablets on wheels.” As a result, touchscreens were seen as representing tech-infused modernity. But cost has been a factor, too. “These screens are presented as this avant garde, minimalist design,” said Matt Farah, a car reviewer and host of The Smoking Tire, an auto-focused YouTube channel and podcast. “But really, it’s the cheapest way possible of building an interior.” Although they look fancy, Farah said that carmakers can purchase screens for less than $50, making them significantly less expensive than tactile controls.

As I explained in a 2021 Slate article, the trend toward car touchscreens has been a dangerous one for road safety. Those who drove in the 1990s will remember using buttons and knobs to change the radio or adjust the air conditioning without looking down from the steering wheel. Despite their name, touchscreens rely on a driver’s eyes as much as her fingers to navigate—and every second that she is looking at a screen is a second that she isn’t looking at the road ahead. Navigating through various levels of menus to reach a desired control can be particularly dangerous; one study by the AAA Foundation concluded that infotainment touchscreens can distract a driver for up to 40 seconds, long enough to cover half a mile at 50 mph.

“The irony is that everyone basically accepts that it’s dangerous to use your phone while driving,” said Farah. “Yet no one complains about what we’re doing instead, which is fundamentally using an iPad while driving. If you’re paying between $40,000 and $300,000 for a car, you’re getting an iPad built onto the dashboard.”

Seeking to address these risks, NHTSA published voluntary guidance in 2013 recommending that a driver be able to complete any infotainment task with glances of under two seconds, totaling a maximum of 12 seconds. But NHTSA’s guidance had no enforcement mechanism, and carmakers have violated it with impunity.

In the last two years further evidence has suggested that touchscreens represent a step backward for auto design. Drexel researchers found that infotainment systems posed a statistically significant crash risk even in the early 2010s, before carmakers added many of today’s bells and whistles. A widely publicized Swedish study found that completing tasks with screens takes longer than with physical buttons.

Meanwhile, a revolt has been brewing. A recent J.D. Power consumer survey on vehicle dependability concluded that “infotainment remains a significant issue for new vehicles.” It wasn’t hard to understand why. In a 2022 New York Times opinion piece titled “Touch Screens in Cars Solve a Problem We Didn’t Have,” Jay Caspian Kang wrote, “I can think of no better way of describing the frustration of the modern consumer than buying a car with a feature that makes you less safe, doesn’t improve your driving experience in any meaningful way, saves the manufacturer money and gets sold to you as some necessary advance in connectivity.”

Other stories railing against car touchscreens ran in newspapers like the Los Angeles Times and tech sites like Tom’s Guide, which declared, “I’m sorry, but touchscreens in cars are stupid.”

Carmakers have noticed—and they’ve begun to change their tune. Given the higher costs of using physical controls, it’s unsurprising that Porsche has been at the vanguard, returning buttons to the interior of the 2024 Cayenne. (Bugatti, meanwhile, never adopted touchscreens in the first place.) “One would hope that luxury trickles down,” said Farah. “As they reject the screens, it could over time be seen as luxurious to have buttons instead.”

Volkswagen, which owns Porsche, has acknowledged that customer feedback led it to drop its much-loathed steering wheel touch controls that were nearly impossible to use without looking down from the windshield, and executives have suggested adding more buttons to its future EVs.

Meanwhile, the few big automakers that skipped the touchscreen craze have not been shy about letting the world know—while offering a few digs at their competitors. “I think people are going to get tired of these big black screens,” Alfonso Albaisa, Nissan’s senior VP for global design, told Green Car Reports. Hyundai, too, has voiced its commitment to buttons and dials.

With automakers backing away from a trend that has contributed to the U.S.’s sky-high levels of crash deaths, you might expect the federal government to offer a tailwind, perhaps with new regulations or at least by publicly congratulating the carmakers that are adopting safer interior designs. But NHTSA has stayed mum. Asked about any new programs or approaches, the agency said in an email that “Distraction-affected crashes are a concern, particularly in vehicles equipped with an array of convenience technologies such as entertainment screens and other visual displays.”


While much of the recent infotainment news has been positive, that’s not true for all of it. Some automakers seem to be doubling down on their commitment to screens; the new Mercedes 2024 E-Class will come with up to three of them. Even more troubling was General Motors’ recent announcement that its future models would be incompatible with widely used Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, instead requiring owners to navigate a new infotainment interface. As a result, those accustomed to CarPlay or Android Auto will need to ascend a learning curve when they buy a new car, borrow a friend’s vehicle, or get a rental. Learning curves and car safety do not mix well.

Still, automakers like Nissan and Hyundai deserve praise for standing against a Tesla-fueled trend that has made driving more dangerous. And Volkswagen should get at least partial credit for belatedly seeing the light, even if it was a consumer backlash that forced them there.

The invisible hand has done road safety few favors; carmakers’ inability to profit from protecting those outside of the cars is a big reason they shrug off the danger they create for pedestrians and cyclists. But with touchscreens, at least, market forces seem to be helping to make U.S. roadways a bit less deadly.

[Rafichicago]

It is hard to imagine that all the engineers and so called smart white collar individuals did not foreseen such an outcome. People were causing more and more accidents just because they’ve constantly used their smartphones. I will happily listen to anyone that is in car industry particularly in engineering dept. that would logically explain their reasoning behind this. How does operating a touchscreen in a car differ from texting or emailing or just casually scrolling with your phone in your hand.

[cmyx6go]

lv42day
If I could, I'd appreciate your post more than once. The timing is ironic. I was just at the dealer for service yesterday and sat in a new model with the big screen and no buttons. I was talking to my sales guy and told him I was leaning towards buying my current 2022 X6M at lease end in August 2024 due to this nonsense. I was going to take a look at Porsche but I assumed all manufacturers were heading down this same road.

If Porsche really is going back to buttons for 2024, I guess I'll be driving a Cayenne. Unless BMW changes gears and brings back buttons for 2025.....

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

If I could, I'd appreciate your post more than once. The timing is ironic. I was just at the dealer for service yesterday and sat in a new model with the big screen and no buttons. I was talking to my sales guy and told him I was leaning towards buying my current 2022 X6M at lease end in August 2024 due to this nonsense. I was going to take a look at Porsche but I assumed all manufacturers were heading down this same road.

If Porsche really is going back to buttons for 2024, I guess I'll be driving a Cayenne. Unless BMW changes gears and brings back buttons for 2025.....

[PcarFan]

No touch screens or steering wheel controls for me if I have the choice.
Very rarely do I use the buttons on the BMW steering wheel, I find myself always reaching for the radio buttons.

[cmyx6go]

Originally Posted by PcarFan

No touch screens or steering wheel controls for me if I have the choice.
Very rarely do I use the buttons on the BMW steering wheel, I find myself always reaching for the radio buttons.

I do like the volume control on steering wheel.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

Unless BMW changes gears and brings back buttons for 2025.....

I'd usually say fat chance BMW will change anything, but this is an intriguing one. They changed the old BMW turn signal starting with the F chassis so that it works the same as every other car when customers complained. In this case I'll say there's a chance, a very very very small one, but nonetheless a chance.

[PcarFan]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

I do like the volume control on steering wheel.

That`s pretty much the only button I use on the steering wheel, the up and down volume control on the steering wheel is actually good. You don`t have to take your eyes off the road to adjust the radio volume. Half of the other buttons on the steering I don`t even know what they are for . I just don`t pay much attention to them.
I don`t even use the phone button on the steering wheel, I use the one on the center console.

[No one]

Originally Posted by PcarFan

the up and down volume control on the steering wheel is actually good. You don`t have to take your eyes off the road to adjust the radio volume.

And so is the track/station change roller.

Originally Posted by PcarFan

Half of the other buttons on the steering I don`t even know what they are for . I just don`t pay much attention to them.
I don`t even use the phone button on the steering wheel

My phone button on the steering wheel just doesn't work: no such function. I hate using phone at all times, honestly. Still honestly, it could be useful sometimes and yet I don't regret it. It's fine to only use the phone when stationary. I also have an attachable dashboard phone holder just in case. The non-void steering wheel controls I (almost) never use is the speed limiter (and I did skip a very attractive cruise control cost when ordering - not interested ).

[Jbrown7403]

Long live the analog speedo and tach. One of many reasons I’m keeping my F82 as long as possible.

[smrtypants44]

I don't feel like the fact vw is getting rid of capacitive buttons on its steering wheels is any indication that touchscreens are going away. This article feels like wishful thinking more than anything

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by cmyx6go

I do like the volume control on steering wheel.

I have memorized their positions and use all of the buttons on my steering wheel on a regular basis. Also with my HUD I can see the names of the SiriusXM stations and can select which one I want to listen to with the steering wheel buttons.

I also use Ask BMW or Siri on a regular basis.

The button line is that I don't have to take my eyes off of the road!

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by PcarFan

No touch screens or steering wheel controls for me if I have the choice.
Very rarely do I use the buttons on the BMW steering wheel, I find myself always reaching for the radio buttons.

Yeah man we should definitely go back to 1980s technology in cars.

This thread is freaking weird. Mostly the responses.

I do not care what any article says; touch screens in cars are not responsible for all these accidents. When you’re looking at your touchscreen, your peripheral vision can still see the road ahead. Please don’t try to say any different. I use one every day in all three of my personal vehicles. These accidents are caused by people looking DOWN and away from the road ahead at their cell phones. I see it every day during my 40,000 miles of travel in a car per year. The touchscreen is the most helpful part of the car for me. The GPS is displayed there. I use Waze. Waze helps me by giving me a warning ahead of time to avoid revenue generators, as well as objects on the road, potholes and redirects me when serious traffic congestion is in front of me. Eliminating the touchscreen in cars will only cause people to go back to using their cell phones as a GPS causing even more people to look DOWN and away from the road. How is that logical and more safe????? If you truly hate what I consider to be new and bad ass technology in the cars of today then go and buy a vintage car. Rant over. Good grief.

[celsdogg]

Having a screen for navigation and other similar functions is fine and shouldn't go away.

But, they do not need to put every method of control on a touchscreen that require that you look at it while making blank the rest of the interior where controls used to reside. Having to switch between different screen layouts to control things that used to just fall to hand without looking is not an improvement. Especially considering the increased length of time completing these tasks now takes vs tactile and always present controls.

I think the ideal is somewhere close to where the F-chassis' design is (although not perfect); the screen for navigation is a quick glance under the windshield, HVAC and radio controls are underneath and can be found without looking.

Central vision should be dedicated to looking out the windshield 98% of the time and peripheral to using secondary controls instead of the opposite.

[PcarFan]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Yeah man we should definitely go back to 1980s technology in cars.

This thread is freaking weird. Mostly the responses.

I do not care what any article says; touch screens in cars are not responsible for all these accidents. When you’re looking at your touchscreen, your peripheral vision can still see the road ahead. Please don’t try to say any different. I use one every day in all three of my personal vehicles. These accidents are caused by people looking DOWN and away from the road ahead at their cell phones. I see it every day during my 40,000 miles of travel in a car per year. The touchscreen is the most helpful part of the car for me. The GPS is displayed there. I use Waze. Waze helps me by giving me a warning ahead of time to avoid revenue generators, as well as objects on the road, potholes and redirects me when serious traffic congestion is in front of me. Eliminating the touchscreen in cars will only cause people to go back to using their cell phones as a GPS causing even more people to look DOWN and away from the road. How is that logical and more safe????? If you truly hate what I consider to be new and bad ass technology in the cars of today then go and buy a vintage car. Rant over. Good grief.

I'm not saying that the GPS is not useful on a screen. I have 2 cars with screens that displays the GPS and I use them often. Neither was I saying that the touch screens are responsible for more accidents. All I was saying is that I use the buttons/knobs on the radio and center console more often than the steering wheel buttons.


I also never said that I hated the new touch screens technology. Now do I like it, hell no.
And yes I'm old, I grew up with no technology, and I do not care for all the fancy stuff that they put in cars today.

I don't understand where you got all that from my post.

What's so different from using the touch screen on a car than a phone that's mounted on the dashboard?
You still have to take your eyes off the road to look and touch any of them.
Unless you know where everything is by heart and don't need to even look at the screen.

I don't know what you consider vintage? But I have a 22 and 23 year old car that I consider vintage, so I don't think I need to go buy a vintage car.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by PcarFan

I'm not saying that the GPS is not useful on a screen. I have 2 cars with screens that displays the GPS and I use them often. Neither was I saying that the touch screens are responsible for more accidents. All I was saying is that I use the buttons/knobs on the radio and center console more often than the steering wheel buttons.


I also never said that I hated the new touch screens technology. Now do I like it, hell no.
And yes I'm old, I grew up with no technology, and I do not care for all the fancy stuff that they put in cars today.

I don't understand where you got all that from my post.

What's so different from using the touch screen on a car than a phone that's mounted on the dashboard?
You still have to take your eyes off the road to look and touch any of them.
Unless you know where everything is by heart and don't need to even look at the screen.

I don't know what you consider vintage? But I have a 22 and 23 year old car that I consider vintage, so I don't think I need to go buy a vintage car.

I apologize for the misunderstanding. Only my first sentence was really addressed towards your post. All the rest was a general rant to what I consider a silly subject that shouldn’t even be considered never mind celebrated. I am older also. I’m 53 years old. My first car was a 1977 Thunderbird. The thing was massive and yet still only a two door. LOL. my second car was a 1987 Ford escort GT. Of course I drove my parents cars prior to 1986. I absolutely love all the new features in technology of today and cars compared to back then. If I really really really wanted to go backwards, I would find a vintage car.

You don’t need to use the touchscreen in our new BMWs or any modern car to control the radio or the air conditioning. In fact you don’t need to use to use the touchscreen at all unless you want to program things in the car and you should do that from a stationary position anyway. I’m not sure how you can really compare a small phone on a suction cup to a giant screen. It’s much easier to see the map of a GPS from these beautiful screens that it is from a phone. I know this because I have been using phones since long before touchscreens came out. The touchscreen is Infinitely better IMHO. My goal is to never use my phone at all while in the car.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by celsdogg

Having a screen for navigation and other similar functions is fine and shouldn't go away.

But, they do not need to put every method of control on a touchscreen that require that you look at it while making blank the rest of the interior where controls used to reside. Having to switch between different screen layouts to control things that used to just fall to hand without looking is not an improvement. Especially considering the increased length of time completing these tasks now takes vs tactile and always present controls.

I think the ideal is somewhere close to where the F-chassis' design is (although not perfect); the screen for navigation is a quick glance under the windshield, HVAC and radio controls are underneath and can be found without looking.

Central vision should be dedicated to looking out the windshield 98% of the time and peripheral to using secondary controls instead of the opposite.

You can’t look out the windshield and use your peripheral vision to see the touchscreen? What are you like 8‘11“ tall? Your head sticking out the sunroof?

This thread really sounds more like big brother stuff.

Here’s an idea. A novel idea. How about they continue with the same technology and all the rest of you guys who don’t like it you never use it? That would work also right? Even in a pre-touchscreen car, you still had to look down to find the knob for the stereo and adjust what radio frequency you wanted, right? Same thing with turning the heater air conditioning on. You had to look.

[celsdogg]

Originally Posted by Patton250

You can’t look out the windshield and use your peripheral vision to see the touchscreen?

That is exactly what I was talking about.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by celsdogg

That is exactly what I was talking about.

Mine was a question not a statement. Unless of course, you mean you really are 8‘11“ tall and your head sticks out the sunroof? :-)

I can see my touchscreen and still look out the windshield perfectly fine. It’s leagues safer than trying to stare at your phone for directions even if your phone is on the suction cup on the dashboard.

[chassis]

Porsche is not going back to buttons for 2024 in the Cayenne. Most Cayenne functions in the center stack area are controlled by haptic buttons on the console or buried layers deep in the PCM menu via touchscreen.

The most egregious examples on the Cayenne are climate control settings that require 1. reaching for the touch screen and 2. flipping to a sub-menu to activate the desired setting. In the past this was done with one button, with immediate visual and physical accessibility.

Furthermore, the 2024 Cayenne, aka 9Y0.2, eliminated the Porsche-iconic left-of-steering-wheel "ignition" switch, in favor of a Tiguan-style start button. And they moved the center console-mounted gear select lever to a Bic-shaver tiny mode switch on the dash, same as the Taycan. Not many people on Rennlist like these changes.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by chassis

Porsche is not going back to buttons for 2024 in the Cayenne. Most Cayenne functions in the center stack area are controlled by haptic buttons on the console or buried layers deep in the PCM menu via touchscreen.

The most egregious examples on the Cayenne are climate control settings that require 1. reaching for the touch screen and 2. flipping to a sub-menu to activate the desired setting. In the past this was done with one button, with immediate visual and physical accessibility.

Furthermore, the 2024 Cayenne, aka 9Y0.2, eliminated the Porsche-iconic left-of-steering-wheel "ignition" switch, in favor of a Tiguan-style start button. And they moved the center console-mounted gear select lever to a Bic-shaver tiny mode switch on the dash, same as the Taycan. Not many people on Rennlist like these changes.

I did not know that. It’s not like that on the turbo S. That does suck man. It must be 1 billion times worse for Tesla. All you have in that silly car is a touchscreen for absolutely everything.

[NickyC]

The less screens the better, hated the digital gauge cluster in my G82 and the screens. Felt right back at home when I got another F8X. Not sure how people deal with all the touch screens and the nasty fingerprints/oil all over everything all the time. Looks gross.