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      09-17-2013, 06:00 AM   #89
trey100
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Originally Posted by Kabrich
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Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
Really? I said that?

Look, if we lived in a land of ignorance, and the cell phone companies knew how dangerous it was to text and drive and we had no idea that texting and driving was dangerous, but the cell phone companies touted how safe and wonderful their phones were to use while driving then I hope you would agree the cell phone companies would have some culpability, right?

Good, now we agree on that.

Now, if, over the course of 15 years, BMW had reason to know that children or disabled adults could be trapped, or have been trapped inside the car due to the flawed design of the central locking system, then I think you would agree that BMW would be culpable to some degree.

Great, now we agree on that too.

So, finally, as I have said numerous times here, I refer to the "BMW car" as having caused the problem because I don't know if BMW corporate was aware of this problem. I have good reason to believe that BMW knew or should have known as a result of their near black box warning that appears in the manual.

Nevertheless, while I don't know if BMW is culpable to any degree, I do know that being trapped in a car with older and possibly newer central locking designs was reasonably foreseeable.

For that reason, I blame the car and not BMW. Should evidence surface that BMW understood the dangers, then I would blame BMW directly.
Clearly you are an ambulance chasing attorney who wants to blame others for their own stupidity. If not, you should consider it as you have the same view of life.

The car companies tell everyone DO NOT LEAVE A CHILD OR PET IN A PARKED CAR. It was NOT the car's fault.
I am pretty sure the warning about leaving a child or pet typically revolves around an infant or dog, neither of which would be able to hit an unlock button or any other common sense way of getting out of the car. This was a 14 year old girl and it should be very easy to simply unlock the door and get out.

How this "feature" can be seen as a theft deterrent more so than creating a dangerous situation is strange to me. Especially from a company that doesn't even make the alarm standard on a $50k car. This sounds more like a "miss" than anything else.

Also, maybe in the UK it is so common that it is obvious. But for sure that is not the case here in the US and BMW should disable that from occurring.
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      09-17-2013, 08:28 AM   #90
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It is interesting to me how some people view this so differently.

I see it as a design fault.

You don't see it that way.

Why do we see this so differently?
First, clearly a tragic accident.

Why do we see it differently? We clearly come from different perspectives of understanding a design feature and/or who takes responsibility for our actions.

From my perspective a total lockdown is for car security, well documented and not uncommon here in the UK. We had a massive campaign over here for added security a few years back, due to the high amount of car theft, "deadlocking" was a design feature in preventing theft. Welcomed by many like the insurance companies, customers, and a selling point for added car security. If it is not 100% then it is a joke and not an effective system. Can't have it both ways, if you can override it, it is not a security feature.

Then there is personal responsibility, and common sense. I've left and locked passengers in the car over the years, but leave the key with them, even if not locking the car, show them how to get out, lock the car, open windows, etc., in case they need to get out, leave the car, etc. To me that is just part of common sense and taking responsibility. Some of us live that way, as we would for other facets of our life, like looking after our own health.

I sense there are a lot of folks who don't think ahead and if it all goes wrong look to pass the blame. (Like many smokers and heavy drinkers, asking "why me?" when it all goes to wrong). That sort of person see things totally different than I do.

HighlandPete
Well said. America puts up with dangerous designs so long as it doesn't kill or injure children.

America goes apecrap over anything that harms or might harm kids.

I used to think exactly like you...then I had kids and now I am one of them.
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      09-17-2013, 10:45 AM   #91
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      09-17-2013, 05:16 PM   #92
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What a stupid feature. BMW needs to do away with it, or set it to where it senses weight on the seat and allows for the doors to be opened. If it can chime and tell me a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt, it should be smart enough to allow them to open a door.
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      09-18-2013, 02:07 AM   #93
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What a stupid feature. BMW needs to do away with it, or set it to where it senses weight on the seat and allows for the doors to be opened. If it can chime and tell me a passenger isn't wearing a seat belt, it should be smart enough to allow them to open a door.
I know my dog will set off the seat belt light sometimes
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      09-18-2013, 07:14 AM   #94
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I was not aware that we are offering customers the option of demonic possession?
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      09-18-2013, 12:23 PM   #95
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i tried this with my x3.

i locked the car with my remote. i then tried to open the driver door. no luck, even with two pulls. BUT! after i press the central lock/unlock button on the dash, i can then open my drivers door with 2 pulls.

why are we all having inconsistent results?
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      09-18-2013, 12:51 PM   #96
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^^ maybe because the keys were inside with you.
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      09-18-2013, 01:08 PM   #97
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Did she not have a cell phone?

Had this been my high school, she could have called the main office. They would have tracked down her brother, and told him to go let her out.
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      09-18-2013, 01:08 PM   #98
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I think the real question here is...., why didn't the owner read the owners manual after he purchased the car. It's written in plain terms. It also states, Do not operate this vehicle before reading the operators manual (Granted I'm sure 90% of people still don't), but this is a prime example why you should familiarize yourself with ANY vehicle you purchase.

So in essence, BMW provided the information needed to avert the situation completely. Who ever blames BMW is making an uneducated statement, due to the fact the information is written out.

Blame the owner the of car for not knowing the options of the car and leaving the girl in there.
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      09-18-2013, 01:15 PM   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
Did she not have a cell phone?

Had this been my high school, she could have called the main office. They would have tracked down her brother, and told him to go let her out.
It stated that they believe she fell asleep. I am sure she had a cell phone as most 10 year olds now days have cell phones, but if you fall asleep, your body will still react to heat exhaustion and recirculate blood flow to the skin, as well as sweat, but only works if humidity levels are low and the water and salt can be replaced.

Unfortunately, depending on the temperature, humidity, and radiant heat..., you could be long gone before you can react to the physical feeling of heat exhaustion (especially if you are asleep and you body is in a nominal state to begin with).
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      09-18-2013, 02:36 PM   #100
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It stated that they believe she fell asleep. I am sure she had a cell phone as most 10 year olds now days have cell phones, but if you fall asleep, your body will still react to heat exhaustion and recirculate blood flow to the skin, as well as sweat, but only works if humidity levels are low and the water and salt can be replaced.

Unfortunately, depending on the temperature, humidity, and radiant heat..., you could be long gone before you can react to the physical feeling of heat exhaustion (especially if you are asleep and you body is in a nominal state to begin with).
Ah.... must have missed that. Thanks for the clarification.
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      09-18-2013, 04:06 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
First, clearly a tragic accident.

Why do we see it differently? We clearly come from different perspectives of understanding a design feature and/or who takes responsibility for our actions.

From my perspective a total lockdown is for car security, well documented and not uncommon here in the UK. We had a massive campaign over here for added security a few years back, due to the high amount of car theft, "deadlocking" was a design feature in preventing theft. Welcomed by many like the insurance companies, customers, and a selling point for added car security. If it is not 100% then it is a joke and not an effective system. Can't have it both ways, if you can override it, it is not a security feature.

Then there is personal responsibility, and common sense. I've left and locked passengers in the car over the years, but leave the key with them, even if not locking the car, show them how to get out, lock the car, open windows, etc., in case they need to get out, leave the car, etc. To me that is just part of common sense and taking responsibility. Some of us live that way, as we would for other facets of our life, like looking after our own health.

I sense there are a lot of folks who don't think ahead and if it all goes wrong look to pass the blame. (Like many smokers and heavy drinkers, asking "why me?" when it all goes to wrong). That sort of person see things totally different than I do.

HighlandPete
Very well put. The deadlock feature has been available for decades. My E28s, E34s and E32s all have/had it, though you had to intentionally activate it by turning the key to the second detent in the tumbler. It is one of the most effective theft deterrents out there for the reasons I noted in my previous post.

As you've noted, with everything in life, a level of personal responsibility and common sense is essential. Everyone immediately blames the design because it doesn't suit them. But for every person who doesn't like something, there's another who does. I always take the time to fully understand whatever it is I'm using because I'm responsible for whatever outcome might result from my using it. To me, this is common sense. However, Voltaire understood centuries ago that "Common sense is not so common." This isn't necessarily meant to be derogatory, but rather to state the obvious that not everyone thinks the same way.

Yes this was an older car. Yes the owner/driver was young. But again, it's imperative you understand how something works 100% before you use it. All manufacturer's have quirks that are not common among others. For example, for all of those who've questioned why the girl didn't just blow the horn, the horn is not powered in a BMW if the ignition is not energized. Been this way for decades.

Perhaps if nothing else, this will motivate everyone who reads this thread to take the initiative to read their manuals and fully understand ALL of the features of their beloved cars.

Finally, don't ever, under any circumstances lock any person in ANY car without providing them with the keys and/or opening the windows for them. This should be common sense, but perhaps it's not.
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      09-21-2013, 09:05 AM   #102
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I just tried it in my m coupe, all I had to do was press the central lock button and I got out.
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      09-21-2013, 04:03 PM   #103
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Dang sad! The answer?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWrules7 View Post
No. That's how BMWs work. Go try it. Have someone lock you in the vehicle with the fob and windows rolled up. You ain't getting out without breaking windows.

It's called central locking and is an anti theft feature.
So should all BMW owners leave a window breaker in the glove box and inform all in the Family about the danger of being locked in and the location of the window breaker. Seems like a good idea to me?
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      09-21-2013, 08:42 PM   #104
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That is very tragic.

I would´ve escaped through the trunk, there is a safety "Pull" - Handle in there. You can always get out of the car through the trunk.

I however have an emergency hammer inside the car, you never know. If you drive into a lake/river/ocean you wont be able to open the doors, and when the electric jams up you re trapped. Braking a Cars window without a tool is almost impossible. Even with a tool it is pretty tricky:

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