No more Castrol in 2015?

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

I've never seen that recommended.

That's what is being done when people run Redline 10w60 or Lubro Moly 10w60. It is heavier than TWS.

[m3ray]

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

Bertolli's, for the EVOO variety that some of us use.

That's the stuff. Longwong special..lol

[s85e90]

http://www.shell.com/global/products...ing-10w60.html


"Provides exceptional bearing protection under extreme-performance and racing conditions"

- that should silence the bearing/fear mongers lol!

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by s85e90

http://www.shell.com/global/products...ing-10w60.html


"Provides exceptional bearing protection under extreme-performance and racing conditions"

- that should silence the bearing/fear mongers lol!

No people will still be scared.

[m3ray]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

No people will still be scared.

Scared money don't make no money.

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by m3ray

Scared money don't make no money.

Damn straight player.

[m3ray]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Damn straight player.

lol

Where is Ace at?

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by m3ray

lol

Where is Ace at?

Tied up in my trunk.

[m3ray]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

Tied up in my trunk.

I figured he might be lapping the country again.

Did he ever get the funk out of his trunk?

[1MOREMOD]

Originally Posted by m3ray

I figured he might be lapping the country again.

Did he ever get the funk out of his trunk?

I think he sold it and got a scion.

[m3ray]

Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD

I think he sold it and got a scion.

Oh maybe that's what he's using the EVOO oil for.

[G80indy]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

I've never seen that recommended.

And why not recommend something that does not shear down to a 40 weight or heavy 30 in 1000 miles, like TWS. At that point it is equivalent to M1 0w40 which also shears down. You guys are jerking each other off that M1 is so much better.
I used to use M1 back in the days of my Mitsubishi Turbo instead of Castrol because Castrol Synthetic was weak as a group 3 when Mobil 1 held up as a group 4. Those days are gone.
The spec from BMW is 10w (that's for winter folks)-60 (that's for high temp).
I submit that Redline being a legit Group 5 oil is not thicker than the other 10w-60 oils for flow rate. And since it's more durable (ester/HTHS) holds its properties and protects longer/ fully throughout the OCI.

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by 330indy

And why not recommend something that does not shear down to a 40 weight or heavy 30 in 1000 miles, like TWS. At that point it is equivalent to M1 0w40 which also shears down. You guys are jerking each other off that M1 is so much better.
I used to use M1 back in the days of my Mitsubishi Turbo instead of Castrol because Castrol Synthetic was weak as a group 3 when Mobil 1 held up as a group 4. Those days are gone.
The spec from BMW is 10w (that's for winter folks)-60 (that's for high temp).
I submit that Redline being a legit Group 5 oil is not thicker than the other 10w-60 oils for flow rate. And since it's more durable (ester/HTHS) holds its properties and protects longer/ fully throughout the OCI.

Within a narrow band of variation, when new, ALL the oils with the same numeric designation are the same viscosity. This talk of the same numeric designation oils being "thinner", at least at the tested temperatures, is nonsense.

Also, the "W" is a designation for oils tested at low temp also (typically around 0°F but it varies by viscosity).

I'd like to see some empirical evidence of the effect of use on the viscosity of these oils, rather than anecdotal claims.

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

Within a narrow band of variation, when new, ALL the oils with the same numeric designation are the same viscosity. This talk of the same numeric designation oils being "thinner", at least at the tested temperatures, is nonsense.

Also, the "W" is a designation for oils tested at low temp also (typically around 0°F but it varies by viscosity).

I'd like to see some empirical evidence of the effect of use on the viscosity of these oils, rather than anecdotal claims.

There's a whole thread full of dozens if not hundreds of S65 UOA's to page through if you want to take a look in the maintenance subforum. Each can be compared to a VOA for the tested oil pretty easily.

[Kurt_OH]

Maybe next year. While I'm under warranty I'll be running exactly what BMW specifies.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants

How do you reconcile that opinion with the fact that the failure rate for S65s in the cooler NE of the USA is lower than the overall average (as a function of sales) while in the hotter climes the rate is above the average?
ie if a high oil viscosity was a contributory cause of bearing wear then wouldn't the rate be higher in cooler states and lower in warmer states?
The whole bearing debate is high on opinion and low on facts.

Just like your failure rate is low on facts and high on opinion. The only facts we have are the people on this board. If we dont have access to every cars info from a central database then the whole thing is moot.

[kawasaki00]

Originally Posted by 330indy

I submit that Redline being a legit Group 5 oil is not thicker than the other 10w-60 oils for flow rate. And since it's more durable (ester/HTHS) holds its properties and protects longer/ fully throughout the OCI.

I hate to tell you but the redline is thicker cold and hot than TWS while having the same pour point. The redline just like the Shell 10-60 is about a 68wt while the tws is around 61-62. Make up your mind on telling people what to run through a OCI and in another thread you say it is stupid to run the entire interval.

[G80indy]

You're incorrect about the thickness cold and hot to other 10w-60 .... Run the viscosity calculator, you might be surprised.

OCI means different things to different people. So I do not send out an edict for OCI. I will offer my opinion after years of reliable high performance applications.
My contention with the apparent majority here is : Redline will hold its values longer than TWS or M1, no doubt.
For me OCI is a no brainer.
With this engine "penny wise and pound foolish" equates to madness.
Buy the best oil you can, change often. BS reports give no comfort.
<5k or one year
After track= ASAP

[bimmerfrk]

Being that I'm in the northeast and do not track in the winter I like to use Mobile 1 0w40. I has a lower viscosity at cold and offers nearly the same protection at temp as Castrol 10w60. My commute is about 1.5 mile to the train station so I want my engine to lubricate as quick as possible. The 0w is great for this engine when its very cold. Additionally it creates a bit higher value on rod bearing clearance due to the lower cold viscosity.

In the spring I will probably bump back up to 10w-60

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by kawasaki00

I hate to tell you but the redline is thicker cold and hot than TWS while having the same pour point. The redline just like the Shell 10-60 is about a 68wt while the tws is around 61-62. Make up your mind on telling people what to run through a OCI and in another thread you say it is stupid to run the entire interval.

Even if that's the case, is a 62 materially different from a 68, at high operating temp? Would you mind posting any relevant documentation / links?


Thanks!

[Z K]

Originally Posted by Kurt_OH

Even if that's the case, is a 62 materially different from a 68, at high operating temp? Would you mind posting any relevant documentation / links?


Thanks!

Here is the data. Redline has a higher viscosity at any given temperature.

Redline synthetic motor oil – and related data

API Service Class_______________________ SM/SL/SG/CF
SAE Viscosity Class_____________________ 10w60
Vis @ 100C, cSt________________________ 25.5
Vis @ 40C, cSt_________________________ 173
Viscosity Index_________________________ 182
CCS Viscosity, Poise, C_________________ 65@-25
Pour Point ^C__________________________ -45
Pour Point ^F__________________________ -49
NOACK Evaporation Loss, 1hr @ 482°F (250°C), %___ 6
HTHS Vis, cP 150°C, ASTM D4741______________ __6.7

And, for comparison, the BMW Castrol Motorsport TWS 10w60 baseline data -

Relative Density 15C________0.864__(test method ASTM D4052)
Viscosity @ 100C___________24.2___(test method ASTM D445) (mm^2/s)
Viscosity @ 40C____________161___(test method ASTM D445) (mm^2/s)
Vis Index__________________179___(test method ASTM D2270)
CCS -25C_________________4,860__(test method ASTM D5293) (cP)
Flashpoint PMCC____________200___(test method ASTM D93) (in Celsius)
Ash Sulphated______________1.1___(test method ASTM D874) (% wt)
TBN______________________???____(test method ASTM D2896) (mg KOH/g)
Pour Point_________________-51____(test method ASTM D87) (in Celsius)

[Kurt_OH]

Originally Posted by Z K

Here is the data. Redline has a higher viscosity at any given temperature.

Redline synthetic motor oil – and related data

API Service Class_______________________ SM/SL/SG/CF
SAE Viscosity Class_____________________ 10w60
Vis @ 100C, cSt________________________ 25.5
Vis @ 40C, cSt_________________________ 173
Viscosity Index_________________________ 182
CCS Viscosity, Poise, C_________________ 65@-25
Pour Point ^C__________________________ -45
Pour Point ^F__________________________ -49
NOACK Evaporation Loss, 1hr @ 482°F (250°C), %___ 6
HTHS Vis, cP 150°C, ASTM D4741______________ __6.7

And, for comparison, the BMW Castrol Motorsport TWS 10w60 baseline data -

Relative Density 15C________0.864__(test method ASTM D4052)
Viscosity @ 100C___________24.2___(test method ASTM D445) (mm^2/s)
Viscosity @ 40C____________161___(test method ASTM D445) (mm^2/s)
Vis Index__________________179___(test method ASTM D2270)
CCS -25C_________________4,860__(test method ASTM D5293) (cP)
Flashpoint PMCC____________200___(test method ASTM D93) (in Celsius)
Ash Sulphated______________1.1___(test method ASTM D874) (% wt)
TBN______________________???____(test method ASTM D2896) (mg KOH/g)
Pour Point_________________-51____(test method ASTM D87) (in Celsius)

Thanks - that's interesting info.

Still, it doesn't address the question I asked: is there a MATERIAL difference? In other words, does 25.5 vs. 24.2 matter, and if so, is it better or worse?