[Rbrown]

Originally Posted by djcowlin

Nope, but I'll be relieved to see my summer wheels and tyres back on the car

I still have my winters on too - although summers in Scotland are never tropical!

As I am hardly using the cars just now, I will wait and see if I bother to change to summers this year.

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Each to their own, plenty love them, just not for me. Perfectly capable, fast and handles well. But for me I just don’t love it. I could easily live with it for a few years if I had to, but I might choose not to. I’m spoilt, I like to love my cars, not just like them.

As SUV’s go I much prefer how our larger slower SUV drives and feels. As far as sports cars go I’d rather have something lower and better to look at. For me it does neither of the things well enough. For some including you it might be everything you want. Don’t just go on what I say, ask some of the others who really like them.

I do wonder how many that own one of these these 'Sporty' SUVs that don't really need an SUV will actually replace with similar. My guess is not many.

It will be interesting to see out of the many on here that went down the cheap deal X3M, X40i/d route how many actually see their PCP to full term and replace with similar. Like many high powered large cars when the initial attraction of the acceleration has worn off there is little to keep the true driving enthusiast enthralled.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Sennen

I do wonder how many that own one of these these 'Sporty' SUVs that don't really need an SUV will actually replace with similar. My guess is not many.

It will be interesting to see out of the many on here that went down the cheap deal X3M, X40i/d route how many actually see their PCP to full term and replace with similar. Like many high powered large cars when the initial attraction of the acceleration has worn off there is little to keep the true driving enthusiast enthralled.

But how many on here are really driving enthusiasts and how many just like nice cars?

I like driving, but I wouldnt say I am an enthusiast and hooning round a track in my own car has never appealed. But I have always been interested in cars so owning something interesting is going to be my plan, unless finances and practicality get in the way.

I had an SQ5 (petrol) before the current car and liked it, who knows what will come after this one (if anything).... will probably depend what I find interesting at the time.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

But how many on here are really driving enthusiasts and how many just like nice cars?

I like driving, but I wouldnt say I am an enthusiast and hooning round a track in my own car has never appealed. But I have always been interested in cars so owning something interesting is going to be my plan, unless finances and practicality get in the way.

I had an SQ5 (petrol) before the current car and liked it, who knows what will come after this one (if anything).... will probably depend what I find interesting at the time.

I think there are loads of factors that makes everyone’s preferences different. Not just driving enthusiasts or not.

I’m not a track driver, but live near loads of twisty turny roads, so like the occasional blast as well.

When you are a two car family the balance could be a factor as well. Right now we have a big SUV and a medium sized one. Balance feels a bit off.

At the time I had about £2-3k of bills due on the 440i, tyres were on the limit, pads and possibly discs were on their way out, service due and tax due.

At the time it felt like the right decision on the X3 as there were no decent offers on anything else with a 3 litre engine, which is what I’d decided I wanted. S4 and S5 were in between models and out of production, C43’s were too expensive and 340 was out of production too. M340 wasn’t out. Only alternative was another 440, and I don’t like to have the same car twice in a row. Doesn’t feel new or special enough.

So, as I say, at the time it felt right. Now there’s other things coming around, it doesn’t.

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

But how many on here are really driving enthusiasts and how many just like nice cars?

I like driving, but I wouldnt say I am an enthusiast and hooning round a track in my own car has never appealed. But I have always been interested in cars so owning something interesting is going to be my plan, unless finances and practicality get in the way.

I had an SQ5 (petrol) before the current car and liked it, who knows what will come after this one (if anything).... will probably depend what I find interesting at the time.

I believe the 4x4 is mainly seen as a status symbol as opposed to an enthusiasts vehicle.

Car ownership in my opinion can be split down into 3 groups, those that need transport, driving enthusiasts and those that need to have the latest and greatest.

I got very little pleasure out of my RR but it made my wife feel like the Queen of Sheba. There is nothing wrong with that but I think the true driving enthusiast would buy any make of car if the driving experience was amazing.

Anyway I am off to get the Lotus out of the Garage and go for a proper drive before she leaves me on Saturday

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

I think there are loads of factors that makes everyone’s preferences different. Not just driving enthusiasts or not.

I’m not a track driver, but live near loads of twisty turny roads, so like the occasional blast as well.

When you are a two car family the balance could be a factor as well. Right now we have a big SUV and a medium sized one. Balance feels a bit off.

At the time I had about £2-3k of bills due on the 440i, tyres were on the limit, pads and possibly discs were on their way out, service due and tax due.

At the time it felt like the right decision on the X3 as there were no decent offers on anything else with a 3 litre engine, which is what I’d decided I wanted. S4 and S5 were in between models and out of production, C43’s were too expensive and 340 was out of production too. M340 wasn’t out. Only alternative was another 440, and I don’t like to have the same car twice in a row. Doesn’t feel new or special enough.

So, as I say, at the time it felt right. Now there’s other things coming around, it doesn’t.

I didn't realise you had a large SUV too.

I don't usually recommend cars but have you considered an M2 Competition it is an amazing drive and you can actually fit 2 in the back without too much trouble so isn't too much of a compromise.

Many think it is the best drivers car BMW currently produce and I must say I agree with them.

It would compliment your Audi really well I think.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Sennen

I didn't realise you had a large SUV too.

I don't usually recommend cars but have you considered an M2 Competition it is an amazing drive and you can actually fit 2 in the back without too much trouble so isn't too much of a compromise.

Many think it is the best drivers car BMW currently produce and I must say I agree with them.

It would compliment your Audi really well I think.

Too expensive unless I go for an older one, which isn’t really what I’d like to do. For now I plan to see what offers come on the M440i later this year.

I did consider an M240i, but they just feel a little old inside now. Still an outside choice. No decision to be made until used prices recover a little so I can get rid of mine.

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Too expensive unless I go for an older one, which isn’t really what I’d like to do. For now I plan to see what offers come on the M440i later this year.

I did consider an M240i, but they just feel a little old inside now. Still an outside choice. No decision to be made until used prices recover a little so I can get rid of mine.

Yes the 2 series does feel a bit dated inside now but I quite like that and I think it suits the basic RWD and in my case manual formula.

I wouldn't have thought the M2 Competition would be a great deal more expensive than an M440i. I paid £47k and that was fully loaded with everything including the big brakes but excluding the sunroof.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by Sennen

I believe the 4x4 is mainly seen as a status symbol as opposed to an enthusiasts vehicle.

Car ownership in my opinion can be split down into 3 groups, those that need transport, driving enthusiasts and those that need to have the latest and greatest.

I got very little pleasure out of my RR but it made my wife feel like the Queen of Sheba. There is nothing wrong with that but I think the true driving enthusiast would buy any make of car if the driving experience was amazing.

Anyway I am off to get the Lotus out of the Garage and go for a proper drive before she leaves me on Saturday

I think that is a bit over simplistic, but would agree there are those that have them to show they can afford it and then there are those that choose what they need (often the really wealthy...).

I think there are driving enthusiasts, where it is how the car drives that is important, and there are car enthusiasts, who like something interesting even if its not the latest or greatest. I've never had an inclination for the last word in driving dynamics - but I am not that good a driver and wouldnt be able to do it justice. I do however like something more interesting - I had a Nova SR when everyone was having XR2s, I wanted an Alfa when everyone was having a BMW (although work put the blocks on that...)....

I liked the SQ5 - had space for the dog, high driving position which is good on motorway, decent performance, nice noise, nice ambiance. But it wasnt in your face (why I didnt have a Macan GTS that I ordered) or too common....

The M5 - well that was bought for the reason that it was my dream to have one. Completely the wrong car for me in every shape and form if we are honest, but I love it. Not for how fast it it or how well it goes round corners, but because its mine and I still cant really believe it.

Elise? drove on in 1998, it was great but I could hardly get in then and wouldn't dream of getting one now, although a near neighbours evora looks nice. M2 is probably similar, appreciate the engineering and capability but not my type of car. Might get an M240i cab for runaround if it didnt get left in some less than desirable places overnight....but then I'd probably rather have a Mini JCW conv instead as I like Minis! First word I said apparently all those years ago....

I think my old Alfa 156 summed it up. Someone asked me what I thought of it. I responded by saying it didnt corner very well, it wasnt particularly comfortable, back seat was too small and it creaked alot - but I loved it. Dynamically it wasnt close to the 320d that preceded it but emotionally it was so much more....

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Sennen

Yes the 2 series does feel a bit dated inside now but I quite like that and I think it suits the basic RWD and in my case manual formula.

I wouldn't have thought the M2 Competition would be a great deal more expensive than an M440i. I paid £47k and that was fully loaded with everything including the big brakes but excluding the sunroof.

The list price doesn’t matter too much, it’s the PCP monthly. Occasionally they may have offers on them, but not often. And right now they’re silly money per month.

I’m hopeful that the M440 will get ordered by the dealers, like the X3 M40’s, but not sell as well as they hope. Might be wishful thinking, will wait and see.

[Sennen]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

The list price doesn’t matter too much, it’s the PCP monthly. Occasionally they may have offers on them, but not often. And right now they’re silly money per month.

I’m hopeful that the M440 will get ordered by the dealers, like the X3 M40’s, but not sell as well as they hope. Might be wishful thinking, will wait and see.

I am not sure what the PCP payment would be but I suspect with a minimum of deposit it would be circa £600 a month but that could be way off the mark.

I would think the M2 is nearing the end of its life now so BMW might start wheeling out the deals.

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

said lots that I agree with

I very much consider myself a car and driving enthusiast. Not one for track days, but love driving on the road and feeling the different feedback and responses. But that doesn't mean I only enjoy a sporty feeling car or only enjoy pushing the limits - a long day out on the road is a great thing in my book. And finding out what a Buick Century or Pontiac Grand Prix was like was every bit as fascinating for me as punting along my mate's Elan.

I probably took most pleasure from owning and driving my BX16, nothing made me happier to drive a 500 mile day. It was a well balanced package and appealed immensely to the car enthusiast in me. What's next in line in that list, a car that makes me want to drive for the sake of it and which ticks the emotional boxes? The current Disco.

What car was most frustrating? Much as I really would recommend one to anyone, especially in GC format, my 440i. Indisputably the most sporty car I have owned, but a frustratingly poor (feeling) handler. My old Mk.2 (Mk.1 facelift) Mondeo was, for instance, streets ahead on a winding challenging road.

Most surprising fun drive? Lumbered with a Chevrolet Matiz loaner for a fortnight during accident repairs to one of my cars, I loathed every second of driving it. Until I took the long B-road way home for the last part of my commute. It was still objectively terrible driven flat-out, but it was fun, in a way that anything with half-decent power and size would not have been on that road.

I don't dispute that a Lotus etc. would give me lots of pleasure as a weekend car, but it would be very much a third car, I would loathe being saddled with the compromises of a sports car as a day to day and long distance machine.

Gone a bit off-topic, but ETTO and when the dealers re-open buy what floats your boat.

[mikeoz]

Originally Posted by isleaiw1

I think that is a bit over simplistic, but would agree there are those that have them to show they can afford it and then there are those that choose what they need (often the really wealthy...).

I think there are driving enthusiasts, where it is how the car drives that is important, and there are car enthusiasts, who like something interesting even if its not the latest or greatest. I've never had an inclination for the last word in driving dynamics - but I am not that good a driver and wouldnt be able to do it justice. I do however like something more interesting - I had a Nova SR when everyone was having XR2s, I wanted an Alfa when everyone was having a BMW (although work put the blocks on that...)....

I liked the SQ5 - had space for the dog, high driving position which is good on motorway, decent performance, nice noise, nice ambiance. But it wasnt in your face (why I didnt have a Macan GTS that I ordered) or too common....

The M5 - well that was bought for the reason that it was my dream to have one. Completely the wrong car for me in every shape and form if we are honest, but I love it. Not for how fast it it or how well it goes round corners, but because its mine and I still cant really believe it.[/B][/B]

Elise? drove on in 1998, it was great but I could hardly get in then and wouldn't dream of getting one now, although a near neighbours evora looks nice. M2 is probably similar, appreciate the engineering and capability but not my type of car. Might get an M240i cab for runaround if it didnt get left in some less than desirable places overnight....but then I'd probably rather have a Mini JCW conv instead as I like Minis! First word I said apparently all those years ago....

I think my old Alfa 156 summed it up. Someone asked me what I thought of it. I responded by saying it didnt corner very well, it wasnt particularly comfortable, back seat was too small and it creaked alot - but I loved it. Dynamically it wasnt close to the 320d that preceded it but emotionally it was so much more....

Totally get why you mean about the M5 and how it makes you feel. It's the emotion and feel you have have for a car that means a lot and contributes to the whole ownership experience.
I have a soft spot for the Golf GTI as I use to owe a MK1 GTI from the 70s and it's such an iconic car I still love the new ones...

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by mikeoz

Totally get why you mean about the M5 and how it makes you feel. It's the emotion and feel you have have for a car that means a lot and contributes to the whole ownership experience.
I have a soft spot for the Golf GTI as I use to owe a MK1 GTI from the 70s and it's such an iconic car I still love the new ones...

When the first GTi came out, I hated it, who wanted a fwd 1600 when you could have a hairy chested RS2000 or similar... and tartan seats and golf ball knob. I was about 12 when it arrived in UK though....

Then a couple of years later a friend bought a Jetta GLi and another friends parents had a Scirocco GTi which he borrowed - and I realised the error of my ways.

The mk7 GTi PP that I bought for my wife and inherited was without doubt the best drivers car I had owned before the M5.... and hopefully the Mk8 will be on my list in future (but not to replace the M5....). Again, it just made me feel good when I got in it. 3 doors, manual, red, tartan seats, golf ball knob....

[JustChris]

Knock ons all starting to ripple outwards...


https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/i...cut-15000-jobs

[ZedsRedBaby]

Well this looks like the nearest thing yet to the finished article.

2021 G22 4 Series (M440i) leaked brochure images and colors! https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1725866

Good luck buffing the stone chips out of that!

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by ZedsRedBaby

Well this looks like the nearest thing yet to the finished article.

2021 G22 4 Series (M440i) leaked brochure images and colors! https://g20.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1725866

Good luck buffing the stone chips out of that!

Not much love on that thread. I actually really like it.

[mikeoz]

Originally Posted by Goneinsixtyseconds

Not much love on that thread. I actually really like it.

Thats actually harking back to a very old design like the BMWs of 1930s IMO..
Not a fan at the moment have to see one in the flesh I think...its going to take some hits on that front

[aquazi]

From those images i'm not a fan - but i guess as a black grill it wouldnt look so bad - the back reminds me of the Jag XE which is a no no!

[isleaiw1]

Prefer that to the new 3 grille...

[Sennen]

I don't actually mind it, what concerns me is it looks very Audiesque and BMW are losing their instantly recognisable kidney grills that have been their trade mark since year dot.

Glad they have a green in the palette though, loved the green 325i coupe I had in the 90s.

[Goneinsixtyseconds]

Originally Posted by Sennen

I don't actually mind it, what concerns me is it looks very Audiesque and BMW are losing their instantly recognisable kidney grills that have been their trade mark since year dot.

Glad they have a green in the palette though, loved the green 325i coupe I had in the 90s.

They’re still kidney grilles, just a different size. They’ve had deeper than they are wide before, so similar proportions, just not as big.

I like it much much more than the recent 3 and 7 series grilles. As I put in another thread, the problem with those is they sit above the level of the headlights. And pretty much couldn’t find any other modern day car design that does that. There’s a reason for that it seems.

This is big, but in the right place, and I’m probably one of the few, but I think it looks really good. Plenty of big grilles out there, Audi, Nissan etc that look ok huge. Might not be exactly what you want, but if they don’t stick up above the headlights, they don’t scream at you as soon as you glance at it.

I think it slightly resembles an Audi and in my mind that’s not a bad thing necessarily, the A5 design has stood up for years. And it’s still clearly identifiable as a BMW.