[DougMcL]

Agree with all of that Gangzoom. BMW battery and electric drivetrain tech was always well developed unlike that of Nissan. For example their batteries suffer far less degradation over time probably because they use water cooling rather than the air cooling of the leaf.

[gangzoom]

And here comes Hyundai and Kia, they already make the most efficient EVs on sale today and the most reliable......Looks fab, cheaper than everyone else, very tempted to order one in top spec!

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...gt-gets-577bhp

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

And here comes Hyundai and Kia, they already make the most efficient EVs on sale today and the most reliable......Looks fab, cheaper than everyone else, very tempted to order one in top spec!

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...gt-gets-577bhp

Hmmm, £60k for the performance version. Sounds a feasible replacement for the RS4..... in a couple of years when the rush is over and we see how they behave in real life...

[KRS_SN]

bmw were busy designing the grilles.
Jokes aside their ice market was profitable and they are truly successful so they didn't want to shoot themselves in the foot by producing cars that sell at lower profit that few wanted to buy or ended up cannibalising their own ICE stock.
I do think that in a few years the model 3 customer will want a move into a well made car with a premium badge. The main manufacturers will be ready in a few years for this.

[JustChris]

All the EVs and concepts dropping recently.

I must admit if they can amp up the mini electric some more (rather than just weight loss) this could be a cracking second car grocery getter.

I love these looks.

Mini Pacesetter unveiled today Formula E safety car etc

[davyk31]

100 miles in the Mini does sound like it’s a bit hopeless but in reality it should be fine for many people. Still if I go ev I would like 200 mile plus range just to give some level of comfort and not have to constantly charge it.

[MashinBenzin]

@gangzoom re Toyota, read/viewed a few things recently about them readying a fairly significant electric model, with some technology leaps. No idea how realistic this was, but a space I'm watching.

I'd be straight into a Hyundai/Kia too, out of what we know is coming to market.

Agree on VW's timing, I took a punt on the shares because it all just felt right when the ID3 and the ID strategy was unveiled.

[DB118D]

Originally Posted by DB118D

gangzoom What are you using to plan your itinerary like that? Looks very useful.

I've ordered a Model 3 LR and have a Glasgow-St. Ives trip to plan (unless they pull Tesla from the CoCar list due to unavailability of grants)

And as of yesterday, the long range version has been pulled from the list as is no longer available

Standard Range+ is still available, but I don't think it makes much sense when in reality it'll only do 200 or so miles on full charge

Tentatively looking at ID.3 Tour model, but that only offers 340 miles according to WLTP so realistically looking at 260-280 at best, plus the lack of Tesla charging infrastructure

[gangzoom]

I was a bit puzzled by Autocars latest 'review' of the ID4 vs Polstar vs Mustang E, that despite acknowledging the ID4 was pretty average on performance, range, interior it was the 'winner'......than it all became clear.

Hell hasn't frozen over, and VAG are back to their old tricks. Am pretty sure by the end of the year every single VAG will be at the top of the WLTP range tables as they work out how best not to cheat but massage the new rating systems

[MashinBenzin]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

I was a bit puzzled by Autocars latest 'review' of the ID4 vs Polstar vs Mustang E, that despite acknowledging the ID4 was pretty average on performance, range, interior it was the 'winner'......than it all became clear.

Hell hasn't frozen over, and VAG are back to their old tricks. Am pretty sure by the end of the year every single VAG will be at the top of the WLTP range tables as they work out how best not to cheat but massage the new rating systems

RSymons is pretty enthusiastic about the ID4 in his review.

Personally looking forward to the Koreans and Japanese getting stronger in this market and smashing the PR-led euros and yanks.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by MashinBenzin

Personally looking forward to the Koreans and Japanese getting stronger in this market and smashing the PR-led euros and yanks.

The marketing stuff behind the scenes is all pretty underhand. On a few EV forms MG subsections all of a sudden got created and moved to top sections despite having hardly any posts. Moderators wouldn't answer questions on who/why this happened, all of this occurred at the exact same time MG was launching their EVs in the UK. To my mind there really is only one reason for that kind of action, taking back handed payments without acknowledgement is even worse than blatant advertising.

Its a really hard these days to get any 'honest' reviews on anything. There is zero legislation for people on YouTube to declare anything. Who knows ££££ donations are been made etc .

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by gangzoom

The marketing stuff behind the scenes is all pretty underhand. On a few EV forms MG subsections all of a sudden got created and moved to top sections despite having hardly any posts. Moderators wouldn't answer questions on who/why this happened, all of this occurred at the exact same time MG was launching their EVs in the UK. To my mind there really is only one reason for that kind of action, taking back handed payments without acknowledgement is even worse than blatant advertising.

Its a really hard these days to get any 'honest' reviews on anything. There is zero legislation for people on YouTube to declare anything. Who knows ££££ donations are been made etc .

I agree I've dropped absolutely loads of YT from my feed and pay very little attention to their review conclusion nowadays.

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by saltyamigo

Did a quick comparison on ABRP on the Glasgow to St Ives (Cornwall?) route, based on leaving at 100%, arriving with 20% battery remaining, it calculates using average driving at legal speeds and is usually pretty accurate.

Model 3 LR = 9 Hours 26 Minutes, 8H 34M driving, 52M charging.
Model 3 SR+ = 10 Hours 03 Minutes, 8H 45M driving, 1H 18M charging.
ID3 77Kw = 10 Hours 14 Minutes, 8H 46M driving, 1H 28M charging.
Model 3 SR+ LFP = 10 Hours 25 Minutes, 8H 45M driving, 1H 40M charging.
ID3 58Kw = 10 Hours 44 Minutes, 8H 49M driving, 1H 55M charging.

Remember this is only one sample route and results could be different on others depending on charger locations. Model 3 SR+ now has 2 different batteries, the US version which charges faster hence the quicker time, and the China LFP version which you can charge to 100% on a regular basis with less detriment to battery lifespan, but charges a bit slower especially in the cold. Their time may well be closer in the summer. The US SR+ still manages the run quicker than the ID3 77Kw despite it needing one more charging stop.

That’s a really interesting comparison, thanks for sharing. I reckon it’s 550 miles according to google and my car will do 360 miles on a tank at motorway speeds.... so I could do it with one stop that would take 15 mins maybe (fill and pay). So about 9 hours in total (plus bladder stops!). Not sure why the driving time varies between cars but gone with the average...

I suspect on a cost comparison I would be less impressed!

[DB118D]

Originally Posted by saltyamigo

Did a quick comparison on ABRP on the Glasgow to St Ives (Cornwall?) route, based on leaving at 100%, arriving with 20% battery remaining, it calculates using average driving at legal speeds and is usually pretty accurate.

Model 3 LR = 9 Hours 26 Minutes, 8H 34M driving, 52M charging.
Model 3 SR+ = 10 Hours 03 Minutes, 8H 45M driving, 1H 18M charging.
ID3 77Kw = 10 Hours 14 Minutes, 8H 46M driving, 1H 28M charging.
Model 3 SR+ LFP = 10 Hours 25 Minutes, 8H 45M driving, 1H 40M charging.
ID3 58Kw = 10 Hours 44 Minutes, 8H 49M driving, 1H 55M charging.

Remember this is only one sample route and results could be different on others depending on charger locations. Model 3 SR+ now has 2 different batteries, the US version which charges faster hence the quicker time, and the China LFP version which you can charge to 100% on a regular basis with less detriment to battery lifespan, but charges a bit slower especially in the cold. Their time may well be closer in the summer. The US SR+ still manages the run quicker than the ID3 77Kw despite it needing one more charging stop.

Thanks for this, this is exactly the type of planning that I need to get my head round!

That trip would be interspersed by a week in Center Parcs Sherwood so not being done in one hit which should make things easier.

I did a quick compare between the LR and SR+ (using Tesla planner not ABRP) and the SR+ wanted charging after 90 miles then a long run to Sherwood which looked like a fair amount of range anxiety

[isleaiw1]

Originally Posted by saltyamigo

Your 9 hours is conservative as the EV's are doing 3 or 4 stops, so going off route 3 or 4 times compared to your once. The other question is are you happy to drive at motorway speeds for 9 hours without a proper break for food and rest, if you factor those in and that you will be charging while doing so the time becomes much closer. If you were all guns blazing in an emergency petrol / diesel wins every time.

I do 2.5 hours and a bog stop. It’s an age thing! But yes, food and drink would be prepurchased and consumed whilst driving. I did north of Aberdeen to just south of Sheffield a few times after work and would do the 8 hours ish without a proper stop, I found getting going again after a long stop harder than carrying on...

So 550 miles would probably be about 8hours including stops.... but at 30 mpg it would be 18 gallons, which at the price I paid for V power would be £115...

[KRS_SN]

There is this assumption in the ev world that you'll anyway have to stop for a 45 minutes McDonald's/burger King break every 2- 3 hours while travelling and this is patently false at least in my case.
I stop when I want not when my vehicle wants me to stop. I don't plan routes based on ev route planners I drive and with over 500 mile range on a full tank I can think of a 2-3 minute fuel stop when I need to.

[gangzoom]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

I stop when I want not when my vehicle wants me to stop. I don't plan routes based on ev route planners I drive and with over 500 mile range on a full tank I can think of a 2-3 minute fuel stop when I need to.

Its a good thing you can still buy new diesel cars for nearly another decade

But clearly if you really need to drive 500 miles pretty much non stop than don't get an EV.

When I bought our EV which has roughly 200 miles of motorway range I could have got one with about 70 miles more range, but when I looked at how we use our car it simply didn't make sense spend more £££ a massive battery which at most I would use 2-3 times a year.

I did 140 miles yesterday on the M6/M69 running some errands, it was essentially a 70 mile drive, drop some thing off, than back in the car. In total I spend 2hrs 40min in the car with about 20%+ charge to spare. To be 100% honest I was totally knackered at the end of the drive, and before anyone suggest is took that long to cover the distance because I was driving slow, I wasn't, it was pretty bang on Google maps predictions.

We have some summer road trips planned in the car with the family later this year (COVID permitting). The thought of driving even 2hrs non stop with 2 kids + 4 adults in the car is terrifying, let alone anything like 9hrs+

For the majority of people with families EV range is fine, and lets be honest most people here have another car on the driveway anyways so range really isn't an issue.

[KRS_SN]

@gangzoom
Driving is a joy not a chore
charging is a chore not a joy
TIC..
I can see how your car fits in with your lifestyle. That's all that matters. Hope your summer trips go well.