Portland Metro / Oregon Emissions + Test Pipes

[e90_503]

Can anyone provide some anecdotal information regarding emissions testing and test pipes + tune? I am doing some research before installing test pipes on my E90 M3 but would like to know if I will fail DEQ in the Portland Metro as a result.

It sounds like many tuners disable the O2 sensor but this maybe leaves us with a cat and o2 "unready" state, which might cause DEQ failure?

Thanks.

DEQ provides information below:

https://secure.sos.state.or.us/oard/...VrsnRsn=274409

(2) Test criteria:

(a) Gasoline powered motor vehicles from model years 1996 to 2000 are allowed two unready monitors; 2001 and newer vehicles are allowed one unready monitor.

(c) A vehicle which previously failed with either a catalyst or evaporative Diagnostic Trouble Code must have their respective monitor in a ready status to pass a subsequent retest. The vehicle will be allowed one or two unready monitors depending on the model year, but an unready catalyst or evaporative monitor cannot be one of them.

[CamasM3e93]

Originally Posted by e90_503

Can anyone provide some anecdotal information regarding emissions testing and test pipes + tune? I am doing some research before installing test pipes on my E90 M3 but would like to know if I will fail DEQ in the Portland Metro as a result.

It sounds like many tuners disable the O2 sensor but this maybe leaves us with a cat and o2 "unready" state, which might cause DEQ failure?

Thanks.

DEQ provides information below:

https://secure.sos.state.or.us/oard/...VrsnRsn=274409

(2) Test criteria:

(a) Gasoline powered motor vehicles from model years 1996 to 2000 are allowed two unready monitors; 2001 and newer vehicles are allowed one unready monitor.

(c) A vehicle which previously failed with either a catalyst or evaporative Diagnostic Trouble Code must have their respective monitor in a ready status to pass a subsequent retest. The vehicle will be allowed one or two unready monitors depending on the model year, but an unready catalyst or evaporative monitor cannot be one of them.

Looks like OR is an OBD scan and no direct testing of test pipe emissions.

You have a few options if you want to run test pipes:

A. Run a stage 1 tune with either 90-degree elbows / spacers in front of the downstream oxygen sensors. They can be had on eBay for $20 and will prevent you from throwing a check engine light 9 months out of the year - the warmer months for reasons unclear to me I threw codes. you'd need to clear them when they pop up.

B. Run a stage 1 tune with test pipes mini-catalytic converter spacers in front of the downstream oxygen sensors - I'm not sure who is carrying them these days but last I saw them they were a few hundred dollars. Can't personally attest to their effectiveness versus the $20 option.

c. Running a stage 2 tune will essentially tell the car to ignore downstream O2 sensor errors when it comes to a check engine light - but internally the car will have an OBD2 not ready error so you will fail the emissions. So this will give you a downstream O2 sensor "not ready" reading no matter what you put in front of the oxygen sensors. So if you want to run stage 2 on test pipes, your option is to flash your tune to a stage 1 or 240e stock tune when you do emissions, then flash back to stage 2 after. the spacers in this scenario would increase the probability of getting through the test (having flashed back to 240e) before a check engine light goes off.

Having a BMW-specific OBD2 scanner like Bimmerlink is key. the $30 generic models won't see / clear everything on a BMW.

OF course all of this assumes you are considering doing this in the well known province of Oregon, Mexico.

[e90_503]

Appreciate the input.

In the case of (A), does this require additional provisions for keeping the downstream o2 sensors enabled from the tuner? I have very little understanding of the fine details of tuning, but my thoughts are that if the downstream o2 sensors are disabled to bypass the CEL code (but still show Not Ready), then I will still fail a DEQ/OBDII scan? I (somewhat stupidly) reached out to a tuner today and was told that we could not have any emissions discussion over email so I am trying to gather some thoughts up and see if they'll discuss over the phone... Don't have high hopes though, as I understand they are put in a bad spot if they go public with any information regarding their methods.

I would also be interested to see what a scan for a Stage 2 vehicle returns in terms of Not Ready statuses, will do some more independent research.

Maybe this is a moot discussion if the Catalyst system reports Not Ready since Oregon DEQ explicitly outlines this as a condition of failure.

[CamasM3e93]

The function of the downstream oxygen sensors is to provide an "after catalytic converter" measurement so the ECU can determine if the catalytic converters are working (or there), throwing a CEL (check engine light) if there's a problem. They have no input to the car's performance.

A stage I tune assumes cats are in place and does nothing regarding the downstream oxygen sensors. If you run a stage 1 tune and test pipes, my experience is you will maximize your probability (not guarantee) ability to pass emissions and get maybe 80% of the power gains.

A stage 2 tune tells the car to ignore the downstream oxygen sensor calculation altogether, you'll never throw a CEL over it, but you'll fail emissions 100% of the time. Unless you flash to another tune when you do emissions.

Having had both stage 1 with test pipes and stage 2 tune with test pipes, the car didn't feel any different with stage 2 so I'd probably elect to run on stage 1 if I was in a state that did obd testing

[e90_503]

Ok - I think I am finally following.

Based on what you said above and some reading, a Stage 2 tune with provide "Not Ready" statuses for the downstream O2 sensor as well as Catalyst system. Tuners will not mess with the Catalyst system as there are regulatory pressures on businesses and this is a very understandable stance they are taking.

The idea is to flash Stage 1 (or stock) tune with the spacers and complete the required drive cycle, where the spacers allow for more cooling of exhaust gasses, which causes the ECU to believe there is a cat? Bonus points for mini-cats (looks like these are available for approx $50 a piece). Also since the tune is not modifying the downstream O2 sensor, those should be "Ready" in an OBDII scan as well?

I am still a bit on the fence on the test pipes and Stage 2 tune as the car is driven <2K miles a year and mostly want the test pipes to open up the exhaust note with my Corsa axle back. The added performance is a nice bonus.

I guess if all else fails, I can put the stock cats back on and complete the drive cycle every other year to satisfy emissions requirements at the time of testing, just would like to have a less inconvenient and more "permanent" solution.

Appreciate the input.

[CamasM3e93]

Originally Posted by e90_503

Ok - I think I am finally following.

Based on what you said above and some reading, a Stage 2 tune with provide "Not Ready" statuses for the downstream O2 sensor as well as Catalyst system. Tuners will not mess with the Catalyst system as there are regulatory pressures on businesses and this is a very understandable stance they are taking.

The idea is to flash Stage 1 (or stock) tune with the spacers and complete the required drive cycle, where the spacers allow for more cooling of exhaust gasses, which causes the ECU to believe there is a cat? Bonus points for mini-cats (looks like these are available for approx $50 a piece). Also since the tune is not modifying the downstream O2 sensor, those should be "Ready" in an OBDII scan as well?

I am still a bit on the fence on the test pipes and Stage 2 tune as the car is driven <2K miles a year and mostly want the test pipes to open up the exhaust note with my Corsa axle back. The added performance is a nice bonus.

I guess if all else fails, I can put the stock cats back on and complete the drive cycle every other year to satisfy emissions requirements at the time of testing, just would like to have a less inconvenient and more "permanent" solution.

Appreciate the input.

Correct!

Another option not stated is to spend around 2k on a quality xPipe with 300 cell high flow cats. This will achieve your louder exhaust desire and allow you to pass emissions. aFe has one :

https://afepower.com/afe-power-49-36...-cat-resonator

[e90_503]

Closing this out in case it can help anyone in the future.

One significant change since the initial post is that I have supercharged my car with an ESS VT1-550 kit, whereas I was initially inquiring with the thought of loading up an Alpine Stage 2 tune.

My Oregon reg is up for renewal, so I ordered a pair of 45deg large o2 sensor spacers with mini-cats from Speedzone. They arrived in about a week. Installed them in the post-cat o2 sensor positions this last weekend and took the car out to run through the drive cycle. To my amusement and general pleasure, they worked. I was able to pass Oregon DEQ with one Unready sensor (o2 - probably just did not hit the drive cycle correctly), but all of the cat, evap, etc, obd2 readiness checks were otherwise set and good to go. The car is running the ESS S/C kit, test pipes, corsa catback.

Spacers took <30min to install and came as two separate pieces per spacer which made it easier to finagle onto the car. I just had to remove the felt undertray to get better access to the secondary o2 sensor harness.

One key note is that the ESS S/C tune does not disable any emissions checks, so the o2 and cat sensors and correlating CELs are still enabled. If you have a tune from a provider that disables these checks and CELs, you'll need to load a revised tune that re-enables for this workaround to work. I also confirmed with ESS that the post-cat o2 sensors are really used for emissions and cat health purposes so I think I am going to leave the spacers on to avoid a CEL. Will report back if there are any issues down the road.

[CamasM3e93]

Originally Posted by e90_503

Closing this out in case it can help anyone in the future.

One significant change since the initial post is that I have supercharged my car with an ESS VT1-550 kit, whereas I was initially inquiring with the thought of loading up an Alpine Stage 2 tune.

My Oregon reg is up for renewal, so I ordered a pair of 45deg large o2 sensor spacers with mini-cats from Speedzone. They arrived in about a week. Installed them in the post-cat o2 sensor positions this last weekend and took the car out to run through the drive cycle. To my amusement and general pleasure, they worked. I was able to pass Oregon DEQ with one Unready sensor (o2 - probably just did not hit the drive cycle correctly), but all of the cat, evap, etc, obd2 readiness checks were otherwise set and good to go. The car is running the ESS S/C kit, test pipes, corsa catback.

Spacers took <30min to install and came as two separate pieces per spacer which made it easier to finagle onto the car. I just had to remove the felt undertray to get better access to the secondary o2 sensor harness.

One key note is that the ESS S/C tune does not disable any emissions checks, so the o2 and cat sensors and correlating CELs are still enabled. If you have a tune from a provider that disables these checks and CELs, you'll need to load a revised tune that re-enables for this workaround to work. I also confirmed with ESS that the post-cat o2 sensors are really used for emissions and cat health purposes so I think I am going to leave the spacers on to avoid a CEL. Will report back if there are any issues down the road.

Well done. I had that kit on my e90 when I purchased it. (If you bought yours used from a guy in Illinois you may have my old kit; I don’t think he got the install right). I was very pleased with it and would have been happy to keep it but sold it because I had a Harrop kit on hand. That 550 does the job, though. Enjoy!

[e90_503]

Thanks! Our previous discussions made me more comfortable with the whole test pipes concept... Corsa catback alone is alright, but amazing when paired with test pipes.

I was actually looking to buy a used 625 kit or something along those lines, had reached out to ESS about replacement parts/support and they said they had a fully refurbed 550 kit (new injectors, plumbing, refurb s/c, etc, with support/tuning) for about as much as used kits were running. Ended up going that route to avoid the headache of sourcing replacement parts, getting injectors cleaned, and general second-hand purchases.

There are definitely faster cars out there but the 550 kit sure does scratch the itch. My only regret is not buying earlier so I could have enjoyed it more during the warm summer months this year.

Next stop... suspension refresh and wheel/tire upgrades...

[CamasM3e93]

Originally Posted by e90_503

Thanks! Our previous discussions made me more comfortable with the whole test pipes concept... Corsa catback alone is alright, but amazing when paired with test pipes.

I was actually looking to buy a used 625 kit or something along those lines, had reached out to ESS about replacement parts/support and they said they had a fully refurbed 550 kit (new injectors, plumbing, refurb s/c, etc, with support/tuning) for about as much as used kits were running. Ended up going that route to avoid the headache of sourcing replacement parts, getting injectors cleaned, and general second-hand purchases.

There are definitely faster cars out there but the 550 kit sure does scratch the itch. My only regret is not buying earlier so I could have enjoyed it more during the warm summer months this year.

Next stop... suspension refresh and wheel/tire upgrades...

Nice! At 100+k miles I replaced every control arm and it made a wonderful difference for the feel of the car. I am still running on the original non-EDC coil overs. I prefer the stock height and everything lowers the car so not in a hurry but know it’s coming due to address. I may end up just refreshing with oem springs and struts. But I’ve got some wheel hop and figure to do subframe and diff mounts when I finally pull the trigger.

[drwankel]

Originally Posted by CamasM3e93

Nice! At 100+k miles I replaced every control arm and it made a wonderful difference for the feel of the car. I am still running on the original non-EDC coil overs. I prefer the stock height and everything lowers the car so not in a hurry but know it’s coming due to address. I may end up just refreshing with oem springs and struts. But I’ve got some wheel hop and figure to do subframe and diff mounts when I finally pull the trigger.

For me- wider wheels / tires completely eliminated my wheel hop.

What I don't honestly know is if it was the wider setup that helped, or the additional weight of the wider wheels and tires are keeping it in check.

I am moving to a lighter wheel setup here in a few weeks, so I am curious if the wheel hop makes a return or not.

[E90325M]

I have the the test pipe, Alpine tune, stock mid pipe, modified OEM exhaust from the previous owner and later I modified to Akrapovic slip on exhaust, both DEQ tests passed without any problem at Hillsboro DEQ station.

I still have a Active Autowerke catless mid pipes which has not been installed yet. I belived it will fail the DEQ test when I use this catless pipe. but I can switch for every 2 years for passing the DEQ.

[e90_503]

I’m surprised you passed with test pipes and Alpine. When I scanned with test pipes and Alpine stage 2, my cat and o2 sensors were Not Ready. AFAIK newer cars are allowed one Not Ready but cats cannot be one of them.

[fengrr]

Originally Posted by E90325M

I have the the test pipe, Alpine tune, stock mid pipe, modified OEM exhaust from the previous owner and later I modified to Akrapovic slip on exhaust, both DEQ tests passed without any problem at Hillsboro DEQ station.

I still have a Active Autowerke catless mid pipes which has not been installed yet. I belived it will fail the DEQ test when I use this catless pipe. but I can switch for every 2 years for passing the DEQ.

Hey, which alpine tune were you running when you passed DEQ?

[E90325M]

Originally Posted by e90_503

I’m surprised you passed with test pipes and Alpine. When I scanned with test pipes and Alpine stage 2, my cat and o2 sensors were Not Ready. AFAIK newer cars are allowed one Not Ready but cats cannot be one of them.

I have Alpine tune stage 1 and yes, Oregon can allow one Not Ready and that is my situation, but passed anyway.

[E90325M]

Originally Posted by fengrr

Hey, which alpine tune were you running when you passed DEQ?

Alpine 91 Stage 1, Servotronics, 8600, VMAX.mod

[fengrr]

Originally Posted by E90325M

Alpine 91 Stage 1, Servotronics, 8600, VMAX.mod

You were running cat delete test pipes too?

[e90_503]

Can't speak for the above poster you quoted, but my suggestion to you is to get an OBDII scan and look at status/codes on your car. My understanding is that most Stage 2 tunes will disable catalytic converter checks (and hide CEL) by forcing them into a NOT READY state.

Portland Metro only grants newer cars ONE NOT READY/FAIL state to pass DEQ, and Catalyst cannot be one of them.

If you just deleted your primary cats, you might be able to slip by before drive cycle resets complete, but once that happens, your Catalyst check will be in NOT READY or FAILED state depending on your tune.

Originally Posted by fengrr

You were running cat delete test pipes too?