F82 M4 offer enough benefit over the e92 M3 to justify jumping into it?

[Nautik]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Dude, its called marketing. Of course they want you to think its going to weigh 3300 lbs. Go back and read the press (read marketing) about the e9x m3 and how they saved weight on this part and that part and then when we got the car it weighed more than the e46 m3…which I also had 2 of and that was no light car either. I agree with 325, even a stripper m3 with full fluids and full fuel will likely be 34XX lbs. And I bet a fully loaded car will prob tip in at 36XX.
Lets just wait and see what a north american M3/4 that a mag actually weighs with options, fuel, and has met all of our DOT regulations.

Looks like you were pretty much right on the money for a fully loaded M3/M4. From the most recent interview with the BMW Project Manager for the M3/M4:

What does the US curb weight for the M3/M4 include?
The way the US curb weight is measured includes full fluids in the car, all standard equipment for US market and all options that are expected to be equipped on more than one-thirds of M3/M4 sold (i.e. 19" wheels and DCT are included).

Note: U.S. curb weight for the U.S. 2015 M3 model is 3540 lbs (manual) / 3595 lbs (DCT) and the U.S. 2015 M4 weighs 3530 lbs (manual) / 3585 lbs (DCT).


Definitely no e46 M3. That said, they still managed to keep the weight down and I doubt any of their competitors will be anywhere close to this other than Corvette (which I don't really see as being in the same segment)

[adc]

Originally Posted by Nautik

Looks like you were pretty much right on the money for a fully loaded M3/M4. From the most recent interview with the BMW Project Manager for the M3/M4:

What does the US curb weight for the M3/M4 include?
The way the US curb weight is measured includes full fluids in the car, all standard equipment for US market and all options that are expected to be equipped on more than one-thirds of M3/M4 sold (i.e. 19" wheels and DCT are included).

Note: U.S. curb weight for the U.S. 2015 M3 model is 3540 lbs (manual) / 3595 lbs (DCT) and the U.S. 2015 M4 weighs 3530 lbs (manual) / 3585 lbs (DCT).


Definitely no e46 M3. That said, they still managed to keep the weight down and I doubt any of their competitors will be anywhere close to this other than Corvette (which I don't really see as being in the same segment)

So a stripper M3 with 18" wheels, manual gearbox and nothing else should come in under 3500lbs, which is impressive. Throw away the exhaust and get some lightweight rims, and it would get nearer to 3400 than 3500.

That's not bad, I was actually expecting it to be a bold faced lie and the car to weigh 3600.

[Nautik]

Originally Posted by adc

So a stripper M3 with 18" wheels, manual gearbox and nothing else should come in under 3500lbs, which is impressive. Throw away the exhaust and get some lightweight rims, and it would get nearer to 3400 than 3500.

That's not bad, I was actually expecting it to be a bold faced lie and the car to weigh 3600.

Well for most people it probably will be right about 3600 lbs But yes it would make sense to me a stripper model might come in under 3500. Maybe another 30-40 lbs would come out of the car with lightweight aftermarket wheels and exhaust. However, given all the wizardry that will need to occur to make the car sound halfway decent, I suspect the weight in aftermarket exhausts won't change that much from stock. I suspect a lot of exhaust options will be running some sort of cutout dumps which will add weight (you can see they have done that on the safety car version of the M4 when looking at the underside pictures).

But it is coming in around 100lbs lighter than the e92 M3 which C&D weighed a fully loaded version at a little under 3700 lbs.

[adc]

Weight, sound, looks ultimately it's not what I buy these cars for. I buy an M3 because it's the only high performance manual transmission practical 4-5 seater in my budget which can handle both rough roads and occasional track duty. And which feels like a proper driver's car.

That last part is still unclear to me - is it better to drive than the E9x? I'm waiting for some head to head comparisons, and for the first examples to reach my dealer of course.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by adc

So a stripper M3 with 18" wheels, manual gearbox and nothing else should come in under 3500lbs, which is impressive. Throw away the exhaust and get some lightweight rims, and it would get nearer to 3400 than 3500.

That's not bad, I was actually expecting it to be a bold faced lie and the car to weigh 3600.

Actually from the curb weights posted, a fully loaded f8x m3/4 is going to be likely 3600+ lbs since they list curb weight well into the 3500 range.

3500 lbs is not light at all considering you're buying a stripper car.

Light would be 3300 lbs and under IMO.

[adc]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

3500 lbs is not light at all considering you're buying a stripper car.

Compared to what, exactly? it has the footprint of a 5 series from a few years back. It's a family car which will beat a base 911 performance wise, yet is vastly more practical and $20k + cheaper.

There is literally nothing else that comes close, at least until the ATS-V gets released.

Light would be 3300 lbs and under IMO.

I'm not saying I wouldn't like it, I'm saying nobody makes a car like that. If the 911 weren't so darn expensive (to buy, to own, to modify) I would gladly sacrifice the compromised practicality, buy one and never look back. In the meantime, I keep driving BMWs which I get discounted via European Delivery and don't feel like I've compromised too much in so doing.

I'm guessing you feel much the same way, or else you wouldn't waste your time on an M3 forum.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by adc

Compared to what, exactly? it has the footprint of a 5 series from a few years back. It's a family car which will beat a base 911 performance wise, yet is vastly more practical and $20k + cheaper.

There is literally nothing else that comes close, at least until the ATS-V gets released.



I'm not saying I wouldn't like it, I'm saying nobody makes a car like that. If the 911 weren't so darn expensive (to buy, to own, to modify) I would gladly sacrifice the compromised practicality, buy one and never look back. In the meantime, I keep driving BMWs which I get discounted via European Delivery and don't feel like I've compromised too much in so doing.

I'm guessing you feel much the same way, or else you wouldn't waste your time on an M3 forum.

Well, a base 991 does better the M3 on every track and is faster in a straight line (even though the M3 has a better power to weight ratio!) than the M3 so thats incorrect. Even a base 997.2 911 with pdk was a faster car than the e92 m3 with dct, so it just a cheaper (fit and finish and overall quality isn't the same either) and more practical, but not nearly a better car overall.

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/b...1_carrera.html


With a daughter, the 911 doesn't work for me at this point. I obviously would love to get back into a 911 with a 991S as its the best sports car the world has ever seen but does sacrifice some practicality. Plus I moved back into the M cars as they don't garner much attention...
Once my daughter is in a forward facing car seats my plan is to get back into a 911, but for now the M3 is good at what is does and provides good performance and handling for its class. And Ive always loved the M3 and M car, Ive owned more of them than 99% of this forum but don't make them out to be something they're not...

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Well, a base 991 does better the M3 on every track and is faster in a straight line (even though the M3 has a better power to weight ratio!) than the M3 so thats incorrect. Even a base 997.2 911 with pdk was a faster car than the e92 m3 with dct, so it just a cheaper (fit and finish and overall quality isn't the same either) and more practical, but not nearly a better car overall.

http://fastestlaps.com/comparisons/b...1_carrera.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://fastestlaps.c...rrera.html</a>


With a daughter, the 911 doesn't work for me at this point. I obviously would love to get back into a 911 with a 991S as its the best sports car the world has ever seen but does sacrifice some practicality. Plus I moved back into the M cars as they don't garner much attention...
Once my daughter is in a forward facing car seats my plan is to get back into a 911, but for now the M3 is good at what is does and provides good performance and handling for its class. And Ive always loved the M3 and M car, Ive owned more of them than 99% of this forum but don't make them out to be something they're not...

What makes you think that a base 911 is faster then an M3 in straight line!? To my knowledge, even the 991 won't outrun the e9x M3s on the 1/4 mile so the base 997 has to be slower, as for the M3/M4, those ones should be more in the range of a 991S in terms of acceleration!

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

What makes you think that a base 911 is faster then an M3 in straight line!? To my knowledge, even the 991 won't outrun the e9x M3s on the 1/4 mile so the base 997 has to be slower, as for the M3/M4, those ones should be more in the range of a 991S in terms of acceleration!

A base 991 IS faster than an e9x m3 in a straight. Even a 997.2 base with pdk was faster than an m3 dct to 150 mph.

Tested same day by car and driver. 997 BASE pdk vs m3 dct

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...11-carrera.pdf

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2009-bmw-m3.pdf

So despite having 75 hp less the 911 was almost a second faster to 150 mph, and from 50-70 was almost a full second faster too. Faster in the quester mile and up stop just pulls away.

The new 991 is faster than that even so yea it's faster than an e9x m3 too sorry.

Yes the new m3 will like be close to a 4 year old 991S which only has 400 hp compared to the m3 which will likely be really 450-460. And you know it won't touch it on the track by any means. By that time the revised 991 will be out which will rightfully still wipe the floor with it and it's still a nice responsive high strung high revving NA engine which the m3 never will be again.
Lets not forget how much of a beating a stock 997.2S put in even the modded and tuned m3 dct...walked it like it was standing still.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

A base 991 IS faster than an e9x m3 in a straight. Even a 997.2 base with pdk was faster than an m3 dct to 150 mph.

Tested same day by car and driver. 997 BASE pdk vs m3 dct

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...11-carrera.pdf

http://media.caranddriver.com/files/2009-bmw-m3.pdf

So despite having 75 hp less the 911 was almost a second faster to 150 mph, and from 50-70 was almost a full second faster too. Faster in the quester mile and up stop just pulls away.

The new 991 is faster than that even so yea it's faster than an e9x m3 too sorry.

Yes the new m3 will like be close to a 4 year old 991S which only has 400 hp compared to the m3 which will likely be really 450-460. And you know it won't touch it on the track by any means. By that time the revised 991 will be out which will rightfully still wipe the floor with it and it's still a nice responsive high strung high revving NA engine which the m3 never will be again.
Lets not forget how much of a beating a stock 997.2S put in even the modded and tuned m3 dct...walked it like it was standing still.

I don't care about all your Porsches vs M3 comparaisons, all I know is that a base 991 is not faster in a straight then a stock e9x M3, not speaking about 1/4 mile, I mean in a straight rolling race! The 991 is just as fast(or as slow) as a 981 Cayman S, which is pretty equal with the M3, if not a bit slower! So forget about the base 997 beating the e9x!

I've done better times and same traps then those two cars in my stock manual e92, and I don't have the traction of these Porsches!

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

I don't care about all your Porsches vs M3 comparaisons, all I know is that a base 991 is not faster in a straight then a stock e9x M3, not speaking about 1/4 mile, I mean in a straight rolling race! The 991 is just as fast(or as slow) as a 981 Cayman S, which is pretty equal with the M3, if not a bit slower! So forget about the base 997 beating the e9x!

I've done better times and same traps then those two cars in my stock manual e92, and I don't have the traction of these Porsches!

Sorry you're wrong. I just showed you same day same conditions a 997 BASE with PDK was faster in a straight than an e9x m3 with dct. A 991 base is faster than a 997 base so yes, both ARE faster than an e9x m3 in a straight or on the track. You can't disprove it.

A 991 IS a good bit faster than a Cayman S, you're wrong there too.

Idc what you say you've done…bc unless you have time slips, I don't believe it. Especially seeing as most stock M3s barely trap 110 mph.

Let me ask, whats faster in a straight a 997.2S or a tuned/exhaust M3 DCT? How badly does a 991S pull a DCT M3?

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Sorry you're wrong. I just showed you same day same conditions a 997 BASE with PDK was faster in a straight than an e9x m3 with dct. A 991 base is faster than a 997 base so yes, both ARE faster than an e9x m3 in a straight or on the track. You can't disprove it.

A 991 IS a good bit faster than a Cayman S, you're wrong there too.

Idc what you say you've done…bc unless you have time slips, I don't believe it. Especially seeing as most stock M3s barely trap 110 mph.

Let me ask, whats faster in a straight a 997.2S or a tuned/exhaust M3 DCT? How badly does a 991S pull a DCT M3?

It's your choice to believe me or not, but I've done 12.8@110mph and 12.9@111mph with my car, both with 19xx 60fts! And I'm sure I'm not the only one, so unless a base 991 does better then that, I think a e9x M is just as fast a the 911 in a straight line!

As for the 991vs Cayman S, in the video I showed you, the 991 was, let's say "identical" with the Boxster S so I don't see why it would be faster then a Cayman which is basicly a Boxster with a better power/weight!

Oh and before I forget, yes the new M3/M4 probably is underated, so as the 991!

[quiksi]

who gives a shit if the cars are using launch control anyway?

[bobs619]

If you get an F8x, it will fix your E9x rod bearing problem. Boom

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

It's your choice to believe me or not, but I've done 12.8@110mph and 12.9@111mph with my car, both with 19xx 60fts! And I'm sure I'm not the only one, so unless a base 991 does better then that, I think a e9x M is just as fast a the 911 in a straight line!

As for the 991vs Cayman S, in the video I showed you, the 991 was, let's say "identical" with the Boxster S so I don't see why it would be faster then a Cayman which is basicly a Boxster with a better power/weight!

Oh and before I forget, yes the new M3/M4 probably is underated, so as the 991!

Ive seen a time of 12.5@115 mph for a base 991 which seems plausible given Ive seen stock 991S' running close to 120 mph.

Yes the M3/4 will be somewhat underrated but its also a heavy car. They just weighed an M3 with 6mt, 19's, no sunroof, led lights, HUD, and full tank of gas WITHOUT driver that weighs 3562 lbs! Add DCT thats 90 lbs, and add some options thats a 3700 lbs car.

[Denk]

The jury is out until I get my hands on one. It's a chemistry thing for me.

[BobS]

Based on the latest weight posted, I've lost some excitement for the new m3/m4. It's going to be a great car but I really don't think it will be worth rushing to the dealer to trade in your e9x m3, unless you just want the new thing on the block. The car will respond well to bolt on's and a tune, as all turbo cars do, but it should take some time before a turbo upgrade is developed.

[Alex07M3]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Ive seen a time of 12.5@115 mph for a base 991 which seems plausible given Ive seen stock 991S' running close to 120 mph.

Yes the M3/4 will be somewhat underrated but its also a heavy car. They just weighed an M3 with 6mt, 19's, no sunroof, led lights, HUD, and full tank of gas WITHOUT driver that weighs 3562 lbs! Add DCT thats 90 lbs, and add some options thats a 3700 lbs car.

I hope you agree with me that you wont find a better "same day, same condition" comparaison between the Boxster S and the 991 C2, so to me, there's no doupt that they are equal accelerating cars! From there, my logic tells me that if a Boxster S was capable of 115mph like you say the 991 is, then we would probably don't ear all these complains about the Cayman/Boxster S lack of straight line performance!!

Also, I remember having raced a base 991 on the highway when my car was stock and I remember telling myself that it was god damn fast for a non S but still he never passed me! Take that with a grain of salt since it's nothing scientific, but still, never I have thought that he was beating me, nor did he!

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by Alex07M3

I hope you agree with me that you wont find a better "same day, same condition" comparaison between the Boxster S and the 991 C2, so to me, there's no doupt that they are equal accelerating cars! From there, my logic tells me that if a Boxster S was capable of 115mph like you say the 991 is, then we would probably don't ear all these complains about the Cayman/Boxster S lack of straight line performance!!

Also, I remember having raced a base 991 on the highway when my car was stock and I remember telling myself that it was god damn fast for a non S but still he never passed me! Take that with a grain of salt since it's nothing scientific, but still, never I have thought that he was beating me, nor did he!

Well, Ive seen variances in the M3 1/4 mile times too, from 110-113, so there is variation. A base 991 isn't going to blow away an M3 like a 991S does, but it will pull away up top and is faster on track. The M3 has a huge hp advantage over it...

[MrPrena]

My preference

E9x M3 > F8x M3/4
E60 M5 > F10 M5

I haven't drove F8x M3 nor F10 M5, but I prefer NA

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

[8k3]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

My preference

E9x M3 > F8x M3/4
E39 M5 > E60 M5 > F10 M5

I haven't drove F8x M3 nor F10 M5, but I prefer NA

Amended