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09-19-2014, 05:02 PM | #90 |
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Just got a revised ethanol tune from Benvo.
Bitches be chirping into 3rd. |
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09-20-2014, 05:36 AM | #93 |
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Spoiled fuckers. If I get time. I wasn't planning on dynoing again until after I get my new x-pipe on.
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09-20-2014, 09:53 AM | #94 | |
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09-20-2014, 09:54 AM | #95 |
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09-21-2014, 10:08 AM | #96 |
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Hey guys... I've read up on E30 and our vehicle. With the cars normal engine management it is set up for 94 octane fuel. It runs well on 93 and that is where the claimed power output comes from. When running E30 on the stock tune, power output is similar to 93 with potential advantages at high altitudes and/or high ambient temps. Those benefits carry over when compared to 91 plus significantly more power. With an E30 tune, there is even more potential. But I have one concern. I've read that ethanol isn't as stable as regular pump gas... it breaks down faster. Thus E85 pump gas could be as low as E70. If you think you're running E30 based on a full tank of gas... 4.5 gallons of E85 and 12.1 gallons of 91, but the E85 is really E70, then you're really running E25. With a stock tune you just make less power and have some water in the fuel. The water isn't ideal but manageable and the engine is fine. But here's my question... is the engine more at risk if you have a tune for E30 but it ends up being only E25?
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09-21-2014, 12:17 PM | #97 |
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That is a good question. I would imagine our sensitive knock control system on our cars would adjust to a lower ignition timing table to avoid issues, just like running 93 octane versus 91 octane. However, I'm not qualified to answer that question because I do not know all of the tables available.
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09-21-2014, 06:11 PM | #98 | |
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09-21-2014, 06:12 PM | #99 |
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Ultimately I will defer to the people that actually tune the cars though.
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09-22-2014, 12:06 PM | #101 | |
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The other concern is summer vs winter blends for E85, the mandated minimum is 70% (winter blend) and summer is usually around 80-83%. The seasonal switch over occurs anytime between September and November and can stay in the underground tanks until mid spring depending on the frequency of users at any particular filling station. I tuned my Supra for Flex Fuel operation so I can log Ethanol content and I've never seen 85% from the pump, highest was E83, usually E80. (summer time). This weekend I was down in Vegas for the national Supra meet and one station I filled at showed E73 on my content sensor, so it had already switched to winter. Found another station and with a few gallons of E73 left I was able to get up to E79, so that filling station was still on summer blend. I have all my boost and ignition values maxed at E75, so it was important for me to get that extra splash of Eethanol. For what the M3 community is attempting, the Ethanol content delta is insignificant. If you blend 12gal of E10 with 4gal of E70, your total blend will be E25. If it was a summer blend (E80) and the volume ratio was the same, you'd be at E28. Since both the ignition and fuel trims are in closed loop feedback, there isn't anything to be concerned about. The worst-case scenario is that you reach maximum fuel trim limits in the DME and the car goes into limp mode. Nothing a couple gallons of pump wont remedy. There is no risk to the motor itself.
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09-22-2014, 02:18 PM | #102 |
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Unless you give it too much ethanol and fill the rest up with pump, then have to drive a 20-30 miles in limp mode, haha.
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09-22-2014, 10:25 PM | #103 | |
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09-22-2014, 10:40 PM | #105 |
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09-23-2014, 12:26 AM | #106 |
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I don't think it really matters. Clean up what exactly?
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09-23-2014, 10:23 AM | #107 |
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Thanks, I figured but didn't know for sure.
And sorry for another noob question, but is it really a big performance difference using E85 vs 93 octane?
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09-23-2014, 05:07 PM | #108 | |
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If you examine a piston or intake/exhaust valve that has been removed from a motor running E85, they're pretty damn clean... significantly more clean than what you would find from a pump-gas motor. The most likely failure mode on a new fuel system with high ethanol content blends is with the injector valve components. If your ethanol blended fuel has sat for a while and has absorbed any water (high humidity environment), the water can cause the valve components, which are usually high-iron content steel, to rust. Rust can cause the valves to stick closed if unused for many months, or even worse is to not open as much as they are commanded by the DME, causing a lean condition. I am not certain what the valve component makeup is on an S65 injector. Some OEM injectors have stainless valve components, which negates any rust concerns. Injector Dynamics offers an injector with stainless valve components (ID1300). However, I've been running ID2000's for about 2 years now, almost entirely on high Ethanol blends (E85-E90), and for safety I run a tank of pump through every couple months. Keep in mind my Supra only gets driven a few time a month, and even at those driving intervals and high ethanol content, my injectors are still clean even though the ID2000's have the risky high-iron based steel valving. At the end of the day though, I don't think an E25-E30 blend is enough to bother yourself with these concerns. It is still predominantly pump gas. The only real negatives when discussing Ethanol blends (IMHO) is the minor fuel consumption penalty and availability.
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09-23-2014, 10:38 PM | #109 | |
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I had heard differing opinions as to whether E85 left residue or not, but this is the first I'd heard that, possible rust aside, it actually cleans the injectors better than E10 pump gas. Very interesting if true. In any event, it sounds like it's probably not a bad idea to run a tank of E10 pump gas through the system every now and again, preferably with a fuel that includes Techron. |
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