[Gator328i]

We all know about the legendary engineering on the MB W140 and W124, but I'm curious to know what BMW owners think is the best engineered BMW of all time?

As much as I hate driving MBs, I must concede that getting into a '90s S-Class, even to this day, makes you feel like you're sitting inside a bank vault. There's just something so satisfying about the fit and finish of those cars. They were built so solidly.

I'm going to go out on a limb and cast my vote for the E39. I think it the best mixture of strength, driveability and build quality.

[secretsquirrel]

This is an interesting question. I'm looking forward to reading the results. What i would want in a BMW and what i want in a MB are completely different. I want that "tank like" feel in a big MB. I do not want that in a BMW. I want the car to solid, but as light as possible.

My vote goes to the e46 M3

[Gator328i]

You're right, BMW and MB take two different design philosophies towards building their cars but I think BMW's engineering quality sometimes gets overlooked in favor of their driving performance. I like the E39 because the whole car feels substantial and solid. It's the antithesis of the E36 which has always felt cheap and flimsy to me.

The E46 is definitely a good choice. I love the heft and weight of its doors and altogether driver-oriented approach.

[epbrown]

Originally Posted by Gator328i

We all know about the legendary engineering on the MB W140 and W124, but I'm curious to know what BMW owners think is the best engineered BMW of all time?

I'd say they hit their sweet spot with the E38 7-series.

[ianbiz]

E39, E30, maybe even the E46.....

[swaite]

E46 M3? Is that a joke?
http://www.e46subframeclassactionsettlement.com/

E36, E34, E32 in that order.

[ItsHectic]

I have only ever driven MBs that compete with the 1 series and a late 80s 420SEL.
I find it curious you dont like driving MB but like driving a BMW, although they are very differing to drive, they are both of similar quality, so you must hate driving a lot of other cars too?

I am interested in this thread too, are more expensive MB break modulation and acceleration up to par with BMW?
The mercedes I have drove (a b and c class lol) the brake modulation is poor and the accelerator is frustratingly delayed, so when I pull out of my drive way which is on a busy road people think I am being inconsiderately slow but its just the cars delay to get a move on(not talking about engine power).

With regards to your original question, I believe a lot of the good driving feel of older cars comes down to weight and lack of necessary nanny equipment such as drive by wire. Rather than engineering.

Although as for the sense you get in the car, well I feel like we are reaching an age where rather than engineers and product managers needing to improve on something at all costs they instead just keep it acceptable and make it "greener" and more safe (asbestos, mercury, etc etc) and more efficient (recyclable materials, less factories needed etc)

[Elie335]

you guys forgot the F1 McLaren engine equipped by BMW!

[keanu1]

e34 in my opinion

[JoosyJoos]

Originally Posted by swaite

E46 M3? Is that a joke?
http://www.e46subframeclassactionsettlement.com/

E36, E34, E32 in that order.

You do realize the e36 has the same exact issue and has a tendency to blow out the metal pockets of the rtabs right?

IMO there aren't too many bullet proof bmw's. Japanese cars seem to hold up better. The difference is that BMW pushes the envelope in terms of new technology in their engines etc.

[Davin]

Either the E34 or E39

[geff33]

I am biased on the E34, one of the better engineered BMW cars. I have a 1992 535i M. She is about 18 years old ( over 160K miles) and still going strong :

[Q4P]

Certainly none of the modern era (mid 90's and later), reliability is key for a car to be well engineered, I have not seen this in almost any BMW past 1995-96. Even smaller things like paint coming off of buttons is a sign of poor engineering. If you mean well engineered as in solid driving feel, the new 3 series have a very solid feel, it has a lot to do with weight, the feedback of the steering wheel and types of materials used.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by JoosyJoos

You do realize the e36 has the same exact issue and has a tendency to blow out the metal pockets of the rtabs right?

IMO there aren't too many bullet proof bmw's. Japanese cars seem to hold up better. The difference is that BMW pushes the envelope in terms of new technology in their engines etc.

I have to agree with this, BMW's feel solid to drive but are definitely not cars you want if you plan on keeping them for a long time. Look to Japan for that...

[JoosyJoos]

I think if I was forced to vote on a certain model it'd be the e34 or e39 ultimately.

My e36 is a never ending money pit... but I like it in some kind of masochistic way.

[MisterSkiMask]

BMW R1100GS, it can do about anything, go anywhere, and the Boxer engine will run forever

[Gator328i]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

I have to agree with this, BMW's feel solid to drive but are definitely not cars you want if you plan on keeping them for a long time. Look to Japan for that...

QP, I agree and disagree with you here. You are correct in that reliability plays a huge role in the overall degree of engineering in the car. I think you can keep a BMW reliable and keep it a long time if you are willing to keep up with the maintenance.

I think you're also correct that post-95 BMW's quality seems to have slipped in some areas, while in others it remains quite high. As BMW has thrown more bells and whistles into the cars, there's just simply more things to go wrong with them.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by Gator328i

QP, I agree and disagree with you here. You are correct in that reliability plays a huge role in the overall degree of engineering in the car. I think you can keep a BMW reliable and keep it a long time if you are willing to keep up with the maintenance.

I think you're also correct that post-95 BMW's quality seems to have slipped in some areas, while in others it remains quite high. As BMW has thrown more bells and whistles into the cars, there's just simply more things to go wrong with them.

Interesting points you make but I agree to disagree.

Every car has to be well maintained to last long, the difference is that some age very well with way fewer things breaking than others (in other words it is much cheaper to keep certain cars than others for a long time) - BMW being on the expensive side. Preventative maintenance will not keep electronics from faulting or things like paint coming off of buttons - this is something that has to be designed right from the beginning, something that BMW's of the past 1995 era seem to have a hard time with. I am not keeping my car past 100K, that is a guarantee.

You say BMW has thrown more bells and whistles into their cars but so has every single other manufacturer in the world. Acura and Lexus's technology is on par with BMW if not better and simpler to use, they do not have any reliability problems with electronics, I've had 2 Lexuses, this isn't a conversation worth even going into. BMW's technology is not superior in any way that gives them leeway to be unreliable when compared to the competition. The only place where BMW's engineering has remained high is in the way their cars drive, Lexus nor any other Japanese manufacturer do not give you that feeling of enjoyment when driving a car - this is the sole reason I stick with BMW. Unfortunately for BMW if you've driven the new 5 with electronic steering that element is soon to be gone from BMW as well making the only reason to stick with BMW some dying (fanboy) passion.

Just sayin...

[rollinstone157]

E34 or E39 easy. My achievable dream car (since I know an M5 will be hard to find down the road) is an E39 540i. I just love the look of that car, quite timeless.

[Gator328i]

Originally Posted by Questforpower

Interesting points you make but I agree to disagree.

Every car has to be well maintained to last long, the difference is that some age very well with way fewer things breaking than others (in other words it is much cheaper to keep certain cars than others for a long time) - BMW being on the expensive side. Preventative maintenance will not keep electronics from faulting or things like paint coming off of buttons - this is something that has to be designed right from the beginning, something that BMW's of the past 1995 era seem to have a hard time with. I am not keeping my car past 100K, that is a guarantee.

You say BMW has thrown more bells and whistles into their cars but so has every single other manufacturer in the world. Acura and Lexus's technology is on par with BMW if not better and simpler to use, they do not have any reliability problems with electronics, I've had 2 Lexuses, this isn't a conversation worth even going into. BMW's technology is not superior in any way that gives them leeway to be unreliable when compared to the competition. The only place where BMW's engineering has remained high is in the way their cars drive, Lexus nor any other Japanese manufacturer do not give you that feeling of enjoyment when driving a car - this is the sole reason I stick with BMW. Unfortunately for BMW if you've driven the new 5 with electronic steering that element is soon to be gone from BMW as well making the only reason to stick with BMW some dying (fanboy) passion.

Just sayin...

Your points are all very logical and I can't argue with the premises that they're based on. I think you're quite correct with regards to the overall quality of BMWs since '95. I had an '04 325Ci prior to my E92 and it had its share of gremlins in the electrical system.

I've been saying for years that BMW is straying from their roots by boosting the steering and suspension so much. When you drive a 1990 BMW and then drive an 2011 BMW, you'd think you were driving a BMW versus a Cadillac.

I really think the late 90's E39s were the sweet spot for BMW engineering. They were technologically advanced enough to offer some nice luxury for their day, but they were also true descendants of the 5-series lineage.

When I think back to those W124s and W140s that MB had in the late '80s and early '90s, the automobile industry was so different back then. When you were talking high-end import luxury cars it was either BMW, MB, or Jaguar. The Japanese trio of luxury nameplates hadn't yet caught up and Audi was an absolute mess.

I'm of the opinion that lack of competition is what enabled MB to overengineer those cars the way they did. They spent a lot of money to make those cars like bank vaults. BMW, of course, has an entirely different philosophy towards car manufacturing so they engineered their cars to provide a unique driving experience.

With so much rampant competition now and the push towards making cars more computerized rather than mechanical, it's little wonder that BMW has cut so many corners.

[Impervious]

Originally Posted by ianbiz

E39, E30, maybe even the E46.....

These three. Almost too close to call.

[Q4P]

Originally Posted by Gator328i

Your points are all very logical and I can't argue with the premises that they're based on. I think you're quite correct with regards to the overall quality of BMWs since '95. I had an '04 325Ci prior to my E92 and it had its share of gremlins in the electrical system.

I've been saying for years that BMW is straying from their roots by boosting the steering and suspension so much. When you drive a 1990 BMW and then drive an 2011 BMW, you'd think you were driving a BMW versus a Cadillac.

I really think the late 90's E39s were the sweet spot for BMW engineering. They were technologically advanced enough to offer some nice luxury for their day, but they were also true descendants of the 5-series lineage.

When I think back to those W124s and W140s that MB had in the late '80s and early '90s, the automobile industry was so different back then. When you were talking high-end import luxury cars it was either BMW, MB, or Jaguar. The Japanese trio of luxury nameplates hadn't yet caught up and Audi was an absolute mess.

I'm of the opinion that lack of competition is what enabled MB to overengineer those cars the way they did. They spent a lot of money to make those cars like bank vaults. BMW, of course, has an entirely different philosophy towards car manufacturing so they engineered their cars to provide a unique driving experience.

With so much rampant competition now and the push towards making cars more computerized rather than mechanical, it's little wonder that BMW has cut so many corners.

Valid Points!