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      10-02-2014, 08:17 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3paul View Post
Dear Bmw: take a good look. Remember when you used to build the "ultimate driving machine"? Remember rwd, 50:50 wd, small nimble cars with fantastic chassis, good manual gearbox and low weight cars? You may have forgotten but these guys havent. See? its still possible
If BMW no longer meets your expectation, perhaps you should consider a Miata.
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      10-03-2014, 03:36 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IS3andME View Post
Uh, you do remember the Lexus LFA, right? And Lexus does have the RC-F in SuperGT, and the SC430 was run in Super GT as well.
As with current DTM cars, SC430 and RC-F that run in Super GT GT500 class bear little to no relation whatsoever aside from looks to the road going counterparts. Totally different frame, chassis, engine, drivetrain, built to regulations to provide close racing.

This is what they look like under their detachable body work:



... so, those two are not great examples of what Lexus can achieve with their road cars.

Just Sayin'.
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      10-03-2014, 08:55 AM   #47
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Bring back the z3m coupe!!!
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      10-03-2014, 09:30 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3paul View Post
Dear Bmw: take a good look. Remember when you used to build the "ultimate driving machine"? Remember rwd, 50:50 wd, small nimble cars with fantastic chassis, good manual gearbox and low weight cars? You may have forgotten but these guys havent. See? its still possible
BMW's have all those things except I suppose some would consider the manual very average, but it's been like that for forever so I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. RWD, 50:50 wd, the 2 series is small, f22 and f30 chassis are great, and have the lowest weight in their classes.
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      10-03-2014, 12:38 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dalko43
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Originally Posted by Levi View Post
A roadster which is a 2 seat coup with opening roof is a niche model. Look how badly Z4 sells, worst selling BMW ever.

Depends on which Z4 you are referring to. The Z4M, if I remember correctly, sold fairly well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
The Z5 will have a folding hardtop as it does currently.

The Z3 will have a cloth top !
Well I guess we have no choice but to take your word as official...this is the internet after all. Why would anyone make stuff up or lie???


Edit: I'm surprised more people aren't ranting and raving about this new potential Z model. BMW needs to get back to its roots of small, nimble but powerful cars, and this seems like an awesome way to do it...a Z model with all the M performance parts...something to compete with the 911's.

I was impressed with where BMW took the M4 in terms of weight reduction and turbo performance...now if they can just apply these same technologies and methods to a hard top Z Model, I will have my credit card ready!!
You can believe whatever you want, but the directional facts have been clear for several years now.

It's not that hard to understand once you put all the pieces together.
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      10-03-2014, 06:07 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
First as always thanks for your insight into the way BMW thinks and plans products.

I really like that Z5 render, except for the nose/face/hood. I would prefer something along the Zagato coupe/cabria hood line. I prefer the way the Zagato "twins" hood come curving down into the grill/bumper. It looks more Classic BMW to me.

Zagato twins....
Right on point, the Zagato is gorgeous absolutely love it.
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      10-04-2014, 04:50 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tallshortguy
Quote:
Originally Posted by X3paul View Post
Dear Bmw: take a good look. Remember when you used to build the "ultimate driving machine"? Remember rwd, 50:50 wd, small nimble cars with fantastic chassis, good manual gearbox and low weight cars? You may have forgotten but these guys havent. See? its still possible
BMW's have all those things except I suppose some would consider the manual very average, but it's been like that for forever so I'm not sure what you're trying to get at. RWD, 50:50 wd, the 2 series is small, f22 and f30 chassis are great, and have the lowest weight in their classes.
Yeah, I really hope they keep those features and not let the FWD creep into the 2 series.

I think the new Jag XE is supposedly a lot lighter than the F30, remains to be seen if it can out perform the BMW as no one has driven it yet.
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      10-04-2014, 09:54 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by templarklimek View Post
Scott26 I beg you as a former Z4M and present owner of a 2013 M3 and 2014 M6 tell BMW we want another hardtop version. Not all of us want a convertible. Z5M hardtop with a manual transmission would prevent me from defecting to a 911. Thank you.
You have to understand... that the new BMW Execs don't care what you like/want.. only what new potential customers want.


Further, BMW has already sold You a car in the past, & BMW believes they do not have to cater to current or past owners, just new customers...
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      10-04-2014, 03:42 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
You have to understand... that the new BMW Execs don't care what you like/want.. only what new potential customers want.


Further, BMW has already sold You a car in the past, & BMW believes they do not have to cater to current or past owners, just new customers...
Could you give us a list of the BMW execs you've spoken with, or are you psychic?
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      10-04-2014, 05:20 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
Yeah, I really hope they keep those features and not let the FWD creep into the 2 series.

I think the new Jag XE is supposedly a lot lighter than the F30, remains to be seen if it can out perform the BMW as no one has driven it yet.
Apparently the "lightweight" XE follows the same philosophy as the "lightweight" F-Type.
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      10-05-2014, 11:38 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Quote:
Originally Posted by clbmw View Post
Yeah, I really hope they keep those features and not let the FWD creep into the 2 series.

I think the new Jag XE is supposedly a lot lighter than the F30, remains to be seen if it can out perform the BMW as no one has driven it yet.
Apparently the "lightweight" XE follows the same philosophy as the "lightweight" F-Type.
Hahaha

I just read that what was supposedly going to be over 100kg of weight saving turned out to be about 20kg over the F30, will see what it weighs in real life.

20kg is nothing, most people could save that by emptying the crap out of their trunks, I know I could.
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      10-05-2014, 03:37 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The new Z models take their BMW design from a progression of the Vision ConnectedDrive Concept Car like the car below with a more angular and technical language recently seen on the BMW Vision Future Luxury.

All BMWs will retain the essential BMW roadster cues such as being so close to the road and the seats almost on the rear axle. A long bonnet and short rear overhang and raked rear wards front screen and a driver focused cockpit.

What I know is there is a general architecture that is modular and is different sized in each application is scaleable to cover small , medium and large applications.

The smaller one accommodates the Z3 or the GT86 replacement (or maybe a new Celica or MR2?)
The medium one will apply to the Z5 and Supra replacement .

The Z1 will be based on the BMW developed UKL architecture.

The outstanding thing is that the companies are pooling all resources so you are talking about Supercar tech such as Carbon Fibre being used in very expansive ways blended in with high strength steel , magnesium ,thermoplastic and aluminium. What I have learned it is a very beneficial feat for both companies and is currently the envy of the industry.
Some people have their nose out of joint over this arrangement.

The larger application becomes much interesting as the structural pillars and roof structure will also be CFRP. This is the larger plan destined to accommodate the next 6er and a new Lexus Coupe above the recently unveiled RZ.

The Z3 will be the sportiest Z yet combining lightweight engineering and dynamic performance from its rear wheel drive drivetrain. There is a soft top to keep weight down.

The Z3 is also under discussion to use an adaptation of BMWs new three cylinder engine as well as four and six cylinders.

The Z5 comes first. But the image attached is a look at what the Z3 could be.


More info as of 9/11/14:

The Z4 becomes the Z5 and will share with a Toyota as will a Z3 Both are RWD.
The engineering schematics for the Carbon intensive architecture is impressive. You are going to see so much for so little with the combined force of BMW and Toyota using all their resources available.

BMW wants to re-invent its Z series sports cars and make them as cutting edge and influential as the BMWi models by visual appearance and state of the art engineering to highlight a new BMW philosophy for sports cars.

Vision ConnectedDrive and 328 Homage concepts are the template for the visuals. Plans also include a slightly massaged three cylinder entirely unique and exclusive in the Z3 Mille Miglia mimicking the classic 328 to provide excellent dynamics using lightweight materials.

But since Toyota are using the joint architecture for a next gen GT86 based Sedan, its one idea under discussion in Munich, essentially a four dr Z model and potentially an SAV Z model. Nothing has come to light yet but it is a niche that BMW are investigating.
Thanks, Scott. any sense why Bmw is moving away from the 2,4,6,8 = coupe/cabrio naming scheme?
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      10-05-2014, 05:24 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by x5love View Post
Thanks, Scott. any sense why Bmw is moving away from the 2,4,6,8 = coupe/cabrio naming scheme?
They are sports cars. So the split between Roadster/Coupe makes sense and offers a continuity like the X models - the standard Roadster with the even number as a Coupe.
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      10-21-2014, 02:05 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levi View Post
Look how badly Z4 sells, worst selling BMW ever.
I think that part of the issue with E89 sales may relate to price point. Certainly here in Canada, an E89 Z4 can be had for about the price of THREE Miatas.

As fine as a future Z car is likely to be, all that effort is wasted if the car is priced such that the masses simply cannot afford to buy it.
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      10-22-2014, 07:34 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X3paul View Post
Dear Bmw: take a good look. Remember when you used to build the "ultimate driving machine"? Remember rwd, 50:50 wd, small nimble cars with fantastic chassis, good manual gearbox and low weight cars? You may have forgotten but these guys havent. See? its still possible
This post made me laugh out loud because here's a guy complaining about BMW not building the "Ultimate Driving Machine" and the guy drives an X3....



Back to topic, I thought BMW had forgotten all about the Z cars, hell I did. Looking forward to see what Toyota and BMW collaborate on and hope they can make the Z an exciting car again.

Last edited by fecurtis; 10-22-2014 at 07:43 AM..
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      10-22-2014, 11:26 AM   #60
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not any more...traded for macan. but i still keep a few other bmw's in the stable including a 1972 E9 csi coup, E65 7 ser, E46 3 ser and the one of the last proper bmw's a Z4 M coup... just picked her up this monday. I did buy the x3 because I need a 4x4 with some groundclearance that would fit my work garage - rr out of equasion - and I thought the x3 would be sporty than any other vehicle in that segment since i also owned the previous gen, but eps, poor chassis and unrefined engine made jump ship for the first time in 20 years.
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      11-07-2014, 08:19 AM   #61
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That zagato almost looks like benz designed it. As for the 4 door z i expect it to roughly follow that one 4 door morgan no-one remembers
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      02-12-2015, 12:03 PM   #62
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Coming from an owner of 2014 Z428i with the Sport Pack, I'm bit confused, BMW is proposing three sports cars to replace one that doesn't sell? Best solution, offer one model with a soft top and another with a hard top that rivals the Boxster. That formula seems to work for Porsche.
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      02-13-2015, 01:50 PM   #63
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Waiting for BMW to have an answer to Porsche's Cayman GT4.
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      02-13-2015, 02:10 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by aajami
Waiting for BMW to have an answer to Porsche's Cayman GT4.
Haha. That's going to be a really long wait. Name one Porsche product that BMW has ever equalled?
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      02-13-2015, 08:44 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Haha. That's going to be a really long wait. Name one Porsche product that BMW has ever equalled?
The Panamera and 6-series GC, Cayenne and X6, and Macan and X4 generally compete with each other.
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      02-13-2015, 08:47 PM   #66
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Haha. That's going to be a really long wait. Name one Porsche product that BMW has ever equalled?
The Panamera and 6-series GC, Cayenne and X6, and Macan and X4 generally compete with each other.
But none of those even come close. My Z3 M Coupe was fun and predates the Cayman, but BMW rarely builds sports cars and seems to be waiting for Toyota's help to try again.
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