[OneRib]

Originally Posted by Wraith.

So no one ever wants to admit it but do you guys seeing the next couple of years a rebuilding period?

It depends on what you consider rebuilding.

It's possible the niners could strike gold again (pun not intended) and return to form. For that to happen Kapernick needs to improve, a deep threat needs to emerge, the o-line has to play better, and we need to get the right offensive coaches.
I would then term it a retooling.

As long as the defense stays top ten, you don't have to rebuild.

Now if they replace Kaepernick along with the coaches, I automatically say rebuild, as there isn't any QB available who I would consider a SB winning player.

One factor that I haven't seen mentioned is the team's identity. Historically, the 49ers have be identified as an offensive team. Even when they had great defenses, the signature was an offense that puts points on the board via the pass.

The fan base would be much more tolerant if the team scored more and threw more efficiently even if the record was the same.

Many franchises with success in the past exhibit the same thing.
1- Yankees are known for power based lineups.
2- Chicago - great defense especially at linebacker, great running game
3- Steelers- physically imposing team, strong defense
4- Raiders- hard hitting defense, deep speed, and fearlessness
5- Lakers- entertaining offense, high scoring, star power
6- Dodgers- top flight pitching

It's not realistic to play to the teams identity all the time, but the fan base is much more tolerant if you fail doing it "the ... way"

[SSW]

Originally Posted by OneRib

One factor that I haven't seen mentioned is the team's identity. Historically, the 49ers have be identified as an offensive team. Even when they had great defenses, the signature was an offense that puts points on the board via the pass.

I have to disagree w/this.

Although the Niners have occasionally been able to run up the score on other teams, the "identity" of the Niners has NEVER been as a high scoring offensive team.

It's always been viewed as a strong DEFENSIVE team that can play "smash mouth" football on offense with a strong running game (which opens up the passing game) that can score enough points to win, because the defense keeps the games close.

The Niners are ranked 3rd on defense and 27th!!! (out of 32) on offense so far this year. So, it's still a strong defensive team. However, both the running and passing game were virtually non-existent this year due mainly IMO to a weak offensive line (depleted by injuries) and Kap's inability to pass effectively without a strong offensive line to protect him.

Fix the offensive line and the Niners will fix most of the problems it has had this year.

There's still a question (at least in my mind) about Kap's ability at QB but I don't think any QB would have performed very effectively w/the weaknesses in the Niners' offensive line this year. Hard to pass if you're always under pressure or end up on your butt; Kap's been sacked 49 times so far this year. Even Montana and Young had a hard time doing that. So, the Niners need to fix whatever's wrong w/the offensive line before they can truly assess whether Kap is also a part of the "problem" or not.

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by SSW

I have to disagree w/this.

Although the Niners have occasionally been able to run up the score on other teams, the "identity" of the Niners has NEVER been as a high scoring offensive team.

It's always been viewed as a strong DEFENSIVE team that can play "smash mouth" football on offense with a strong running game (which opens up the passing game) that can score enough points to win, because the defense keeps the games close.

The Niners are ranked 3rd on defense and 27th!!! (out of 32) on offense so far this year. So, it's still a strong defensive team. However, both the running and passing game were virtually non-existent this year due mainly IMO to a weak offensive line (depleted by injuries) and Kap's inability to pass effectively without a strong offensive line to protect him.

Fix the offensive line and the Niners will fix most of the problems it has had this year.

There's still a question (at least in my mind) about Kap's ability at QB but I don't think any QB would have performed very effectively w/the weaknesses in the Niners' offensive line this year. Hard to pass if you're always under pressure or end up on your butt; Kap's been sacked 49 times so far this year. Even Montana and Young had a hard time doing that. So, the Niners need to fix whatever's wrong w/the offensive line before they can truly assess whether Kap is also a part of the "problem" or not.

I agree the current team is not built this way. I meant historically. Montana, Clark, Rice, Young, Brent Jones, Craig, Owens, Garcia...

Most 49er fans when asked to name the great 49ers of the past will list offensive players (outside of Ronnie Lott) and they think of the West Coast offense, Bill Walsh, Throwing the football, and well coordinated precision offenses.

This current iterations more like the Giants of the late 80's early 90's. Nothing wrong with it, just feel the fan base isn't as tolerant of it.

[MrPrena]

I am missing 1st half of SD vs SF game right now.

[OneRib]

Well that was interesting.
Better draft position, but another game of missed opportunities. Glad nothing was on the line.

Talk about a lost season. This is more in line of what happens to the Superbowl loser the following year. I guess they held it together a little longer than normal.

Glad Gore was able to have a good game.

[TrevorM3]

Last nights game was a culmination of the niners season. I feel like it was fitting.


One last game for coach, i wonder who will take over.

[SSW]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

I am missing 1st half of SD vs SF game right now.

Thankfully, I entirely forgot that the Niners were playing last night.

Hate the way the NFL keeps messing w/game scheduling but, in this case, it was a blessing. Unfortunately, I was able to watch some of the low-lights of the game later -- Kap's fumble for a Charger TD and Patton's fumble for the winning Charger FG -- and am now searching for replay coverage, like a rubbernecker slowing down to take a look at an accident.

Going over the play by play, this game was similar to the last game vs the Hawks in terms of how both the defense and offense game out strong in the 1st 1/2 but then did the opposite in the 2nd 1/2.

Hard to figure out how such an apparently strong offense can put up 28 points in the 1st 1/2 and then only put up 7 in the 2nd. Also hard to figure out how an apparently strong defense can only allow 7 points in the 1st 1/2 and then give up 28 points in the 2nd half. What a flip flop. Too bad the game had to end on an offensive blunder (fumble) which occurred after only 1 min in OT, but that pretty much sums up the Niners' season this year. Oh well . . .

The Niners are 7-8 now and will be lucky to end the season 8-8. Let's just hope that the Giants can beat the Rams so that we can stay out of last place in the division for another week. GO GIANTS!!!!

OBTW, the Hawks 10-4 and Cards 11-3 are playing today. That'll be the game to watch -- it's on NBC @ 530pm Pacific Time.

If the Hawks win this game, they'll be tied w/the Cards for the lead in the NFC West and, if the Niners beat the Cards next week, the Hawks can take the division w/a win over the Rams. In that case, I will be hoping that the Niners LOSE to the Cards next week because I'd hate it if the Niners actually end up helping the Hawks to win the division this year.

So for this week . . . GO CARDS !!!!

[hellrotm]

So can someone explain why the 49ers are getting rid of Harbaugh? Are they crazy?

[SSW]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

So can someone explain why the 49ers are getting rid of Harbaugh? Are they crazy?

Basically, there's a conflict between him and the front office & ownership. Just read the following articles to get the overview:

Multiple Reports Indicate Tension Between Harbaugh & Front Office

Breaking Down Harbaugh-Niners Saga

Harbaugh-Front Office Relationship Getting Worse

Rift Between Front Office & Harbaugh -- Trade Likely

[hellrotm]

Basically the ego's in the front office want him gone. Hope they realize this could be the final nail in the coffin for this team.

One play from winning the superbowl...you are fired. He got Kap to play over his ability. Kap has now lost a lot of confidence, that is worst thing for a young qb. They usually never get it back. He can run like an Ostrich, that is for sure.

Harbaugh should stay in the NFL. The guy can coach. Not a Raiders fan, but I would like to see him take the Raiders out of gutter and turn them into a playoff team. His coaching talent would be wasted in college.

He won't be unemployed for long, that is for sure.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by SSW

Thankfully, I entirely forgot that the Niners were playing last night.

Hate the way the NFL keeps messing w/game scheduling but, in this case, it was a blessing. Unfortunately, I was able to watch some of the low-lights of the game later -- Kap's fumble for a Charger TD and Patton's fumble for the winning Charger FG -- and am now searching for replay coverage, like a rubbernecker slowing down to take a look at an accident.

Going over the play by play, this game was similar to the last game vs the Hawks in terms of how both the defense and offense game out strong in the 1st 1/2 but then did the opposite in the 2nd 1/2.

Hard to figure out how such an apparently strong offense can put up 28 points in the 1st 1/2 and then only put up 7 in the 2nd. Also hard to figure out how an apparently strong defense can only allow 7 points in the 1st 1/2 and then give up 28 points in the 2nd half. What a flip flop. Too bad the game had to end on an offensive blunder (fumble) which occurred after only 1 min in OT, but that pretty much sums up the Niners' season this year. Oh well . . .

The Niners are 7-8 now and will be lucky to end the season 8-8. Let's just hope that the Giants can beat the Rams so that we can stay out of last place in the division for another week. GO GIANTS!!!!

OBTW, the Hawks 10-4 and Cards 11-3 are playing today. That'll be the game to watch -- it's on NBC @ 530pm Pacific Time.

If the Hawks win this game, they'll be tied w/the Cards for the lead in the NFC West and, if the Niners beat the Cards next week, the Hawks can take the division w/a win over the Rams. In that case, I will be hoping that the Niners LOSE to the Cards next week because I'd hate it if the Niners actually end up helping the Hawks to win the division this year.

So for this week . . . GO CARDS !!!!

AZ vs Seattle was a bummer. Can't stand Seahawks.

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

AZ vs Seattle was a bummer. Can't stand Seahawks.

Hai.

[OneRib]

Well before leaked lists and interviews start. Anyone want to give their short list of head coaches?
You can say who you want, who you don't want, and or who you think the 49ers will go after.

Vic Fangio needs an interview and I would like this choice. He would have a good shop at keeping key defensive coaches. Has done a fantstic job this year especially given the obstacles. He would need to have an OC ready to go. Downside is OC's once successful tend to get hired away. Not sure how many good offensive connections he has. The last thing I want is a repeat of the Nolan fiasco once Norv Turner left. This would be the smoothest transition and easiest hire.

Jim Tomsula- Similar to above except he hasn't been a coordinator and not sure Fangio would stick around if he was leapfrogged.

Darrell Bevell- Standard strengthen your team and weaken a rival. Keyed into the division and knows the 49er personnel. Success with a similarly styled offense and unconventional QB. Not sure its him or Wilson's innate pocket sense and scrambling (plus Lynch). Seattle offense has never been prolific. May have to wait a while since the Seahawks looked primed for a long playoff run.

Mike Shanahan- Coaching roots in SF, offensive coach, and has won multiple superbowls. Seems to be on the right side of the RG3 conflict also. Concern is he had clashes with the front office and is used to having significant control over personnel. May cause the defensive coaching staff to break up. A bit of a retread.

Josh McDaniels- This one scares me. Completely enamored with Tim Tebow (ugh), but correct about Jay Culter. Really showed he wasn't ready to be a head coach in Denver. Not convinvced of the New England coaching tree (name me the success story). Once they leave the bosom of Belichick, don't seem to fair well. BUT he may have learned valuable lessons the first time around. He is young and used to working in a structured hierarchy, plus he won't be in a position to demand personnel control. May have to wait a while since the Patriots looked primed for a long playoff run.

Pep Hamilton- Not familiar with him, but he has worked well with Luck and has changed the Indy offense to suit the talents in a given year. Again, what happens to the defensive staff.

Mike Holmgren- Not sure he has the itch to get back into coaching and has been away for awhile. Another who is used to significant personnel control.

Bill Parcells- Added this only because he was the rumored front runner last time. Too old and I doubt interested in going to the West Coast. Not a long term solution. Personnel shouldn't be a huge issue since Balke is from the Parcells tree.

My gut says they interview McDaniels, Fangio, Tomsula, and Hamilton. They will offer the job to McDaniels.

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by MrPrena

AZ vs Seattle was a bummer. Can't stand Seahawks.

Cards didn't have much of a chance with a third string QB.

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by OneRib

Well before leaked lists and interviews start. Anyone want to give their short list of head coaches?
You can say who you want, who you don't want, and or who you think the 49ers will go after.

Vic Fangio needs an interview and I would like this choice. He would have a good shop at keeping key defensive coaches. Has done a fantstic job this year especially given the obstacles. He would need to have an OC ready to go. Downside is OC's once successful tend to get hired away. Not sure how many good offensive connections he has. The last thing I want is a repeat of the Nolan fiasco once Norv Turner left. This would be the smoothest transition and easiest hire.

Jim Tomsula- Similar to above except he hasn't been a coordinator and not sure Fangio would stick around if he was leapfrogged.

Darrell Bevell- Standard strengthen your team and weaken a rival. Keyed into the division and knows the 49er personnel. Success with a similarly styled offense and unconventional QB. Not sure its him or Wilson's innate pocket sense and scrambling (plus Lynch). Seattle offense has never been prolific. May have to wait a while since the Seahawks looked primed for a long playoff run.

Mike Shanahan- Coaching roots in SF, offensive coach, and has won multiple superbowls. Seems to be on the right side of the RG3 conflict also. Concern is he had clashes with the front office and is used to having significant control over personnel. May cause the defensive coaching staff to break up. A bit of a retread.

Josh McDaniels- This one scares me. Completely enamored with Tim Tebow (ugh), but correct about Jay Culter. Really showed he wasn't ready to be a head coach in Denver. Not convinvced of the New England coaching tree (name me the success story). Once they leave the bosom of Belichick, don't seem to fair well. BUT he may have learned valuable lessons the first time around. He is young and used to working in a structured hierarchy, plus he won't be in a position to demand personnel control. May have to wait a while since the Patriots looked primed for a long playoff run.

Pep Hamilton- Not familiar with him, but he has worked well with Luck and has changed the Indy offense to suit the talents in a given year. Again, what happens to the defensive staff.

Mike Holmgren- Not sure he has the itch to get back into coaching and has been away for awhile. Another who is used to significant personnel control.

Bill Parcells- Added this only because he was the rumored front runner last time. Too old and I doubt interested in going to the West Coast. Not a long term solution. Personnel shouldn't be a huge issue since Balke is from the Parcells tree.

My gut says they interview McDaniels, Fangio, Tomsula, and Hamilton. They will offer the job to McDaniels.

I bet if Mike Shanahan was offered, he would take it. I think 49ers are trying not to hire a head coach who just want to coach. just my opinion

Bill Parcells would be really nice. Who know if Bill will take the job.


Josh McDaniel would be a huge mistake. Only think I like about McDaniel is he is a "comedian"

[TrevorM3]

all i want for christmas is for the niners to beat AZ

[OneRib]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

all i want for christmas is for the niners to beat AZ

Beat the Rams and its a moot point.

[SSW]

Now that the Hawks have all than cinched the NFC West title (assuming they beat the Rams next week, which they should), the question is:

Should the Niners just blow off the game vs the Cards to improve their draft position?

Can't imagine the players will have much incentive to play well, especially if it risks any more of them getting hurt.

Of course, there is "pride," but I really don't expect much of a game out of the Niners next Sunday (or whatever day they are playing) because of all of the injuries the team has suffered on both offense and defense.

Although there would be some satisfaction in at least ending the season 8-8 (rather than 7-9 with a losing record), I wouldn't be upset if they just go thru the motions. They have many more important things to deal with and it will be interesting to see how they deal w/them in the off-season.

[OneRib]

I want them to show up and play hard, but lose. Who cares about 7-9 or 8-8 other than I wan the better draft pick. Harbaugh is out either way.
I am more concerned about avoiding serious injuries.

[BMW F22]

Harbaugh going to Michigan.

[TrevorM3]

Originally Posted by BMW F22

Harbaugh going to Michigan.

where did you see this????????

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by TrevorM3

where did you see this????????

It was all over the local news. Michigan is going to officially announce it on Tuesday.