[Leohececa]

Hello all!

I have been reading all the info I could find on this forum and other sources, and I am becoming desperate about this situation as I can't find any useful information to help me fix or diagnose my issue. Here's my story:

Two weeks ago I bought a 3-series E91 (2008) touring in what I believe to be an excellent condition.

I decided to replace the stereo with a fancy android infotainment system (in America is sold as Eonon 9xxxb, here in the Netherlands the same unit is branded as a Cartronix). The process is quite simple and straightforward, many videos cover all the details, so I managed to get it working fairly easily.

Unfortunately, after putting everything together, the climate control unit would not light up. I took everything apart again and checked the connections several times: nothing.

Then I checked the fuses, two or three times each (the infamous 77, but also any other fuse related to temperature, fan, air conditioning, lights or radio) all of them are in good state (tested with multimeter).

I thought the unit might have been damaged somehow during the installation process so I bought another one (second hand, also in good shape) but I won't light up either.

I don't know anymore what to do. I would like to check whether the Aircon connectors do have tension but can't find any documentation or pinout explanation for me to test. Not to talk about the test pins on the back of the unit...

Does anyone have any clue at all? I feel there has to be something fairly simple or stupid I might have missed, but gosh I cannot say how much this is annoying me right now.

Thanks in advance for your help!

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Leohececa

... E91 (2008)... after putting everything together [after radio replacement], the climate control unit would not light up.

If your IHKA Control Panel does NOT light-up, BUT your cargo area lights and glovebox lights work (also on F77 circuit), then most likely
cause of IHKA issue is failure to properly reinstall 12-pin connector at rear of IHKA Module. Attached are 3 ScreenPrints from ISTA
showing IHKA power supply circuit, Location and Connector View of X608 Connector, and F77 circuit.
There is also a 14-pin connector on rear of IHKA Module. Check proper re-install of each. I just picked 320d at random, but
any E91 built after 9/2007 (2008 & Later model) should have SAME wiring.
ANYONE seeking wiring information (found in ISTA) should provide LAST-7 Characters of VIN to ensure proper model ID.
George

[Leohececa]

@gbalthrop thanks a lot, this is exactly what I was looking for!

Tomorrow I will check those voltages and see whether the connectors are supplying power.

Another investigation line I'd like to follow is the actual coding of the ihka, do you think this could be resolved by re-coding the unit?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Leohececa

... Tomorrow I will check those voltages and see whether the connectors are supplying power. [ONLY thing you can do if Climate Control Panel is NOT lighting is DMM voltage test (check ground as well ;-)]
Another investigation line I'd like to follow is the actual coding of the ihka, do you think this could be resolved by re-coding the unit?

"Coding" is selecting new "Setting(s)" in a module. To do that, the Module has to be properly powered, and communicating with the JBE "Hub" via the CAN Bus system. If the Control Panel is NOT lighted, the Module is NOT functioning. It will NOT appear on the INPA or ISTA Module/ Control Unit List or Tree. You CANNOT connect to the IHKA Module via the JBE and OBD II Socket. You can't "Code" what you can't SEE.

If you didn't try to "Code" any modules, there is NOTHING in your description of what was done that suggests that "Coding" was changed. Once again, if your Cargo Area lights and Glovebox light are working, F77 is intact and delivering power, and it's just a matter of WHY power is not being delivered to IHKA at X608/4, with Continuity to Ground at X608/1 (Brown wire). Connector unplugged or pin/socket damage is most likely cause, given the history.

Please let us know how it goes. If you still have issues with Panel NOT lighting when other systems work as they should with Ignition ON, please indicate if you have a Scan Tool, or Diagnostic Software such as INPA or ISTA which can display a screen showing ALL Modules which are communicating with the Tool/ Software.

Also, if you read ALL fault codes in ALL modules which are functioning, you would probably find a fault code in at least one module (such as JBE) indicating NO MESSAGE from IHKA Module.

REMINDER:
ANYONE seeking wiring information (found in ISTA) should provide LAST-7 Characters of VIN to ensure proper model ID.
George

[Leohececa]

Hi George,

You gave an awesome reply with very useful information.

I have downloaded ISTA to get the diagrams you shared and managed to retrieve a lot of useful information.

I am typing right now from my driver's seat after having disassembled the X01199 connector (black cable connected to the back of the IHKA A11a) and testing for the +5 V it should have according to ISTA. I get what I consider a healthy reading of +~4.6 V (engine on) which tells me the button LEDs should light up, but they don't.

My VIN is A097286 btw.

Again, I have tested already two different climate control units so I have no reason to believe the issue lies in the unit itself.

I agree with you, nothing suggest that this should be a coding issue BUT I can't help but to think that the installation of the stereo did have something to do with it because after I installed it I found that one of the fuses of the stereo system was blown (and the original stereo system worked well). After I replaced it, the new stereo worked well.

Again, no other fuses are blown so my coding question remains.

I have bought a OBD to USB interface which should be arriving tomorrow. Can't wait to plug it in and see whether it shows any issues related to the module.... For now I am not sure whether there's anything I could do but waiting...

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Leohececa

... disassembled the X01199 connector (black cable connected to the back of the IHKA A11a) and testing
for the +5 V it should have according to ISTA. I get what I consider a healthy reading of +~4.6 V (engine on) which tells me the button
LEDs should light up, but they don't. My VIN is A097286 btw.

I attach a screenprint of the IHKA (A11a) Power Supply SSP wiring diagram from ISTA, so ALL of us can "Play at Home".
NOT sure why you are looking at IHKA Connector X01199, but I presume you are getting ~ 5V on Pin#2, which is as it SHOULD be.
Power supply to the IHKA Module is via the OTHER connector on the rear of the A11a Module, namely X608, 12-pin connector, per prior diagrams.

With Ignition ON, check for 12V+ at Pin #4 of X608, Red/Yellow wire, and for continuity to ground at Pin #1, Brown wire. Connector X608.
Voltage has to clear TWO different connectors, one on firewall side of JB Fuse Panel, and the other on the Passenger Compartment
side of the JBE (X04010 & X14272), if NOT proper 12V+ at X608/4, then test at X14272/37. Also, carefully examine the Pin & Socket
at X608/4 for bent/broken pin or loose/corroded socket.

It is ALSO important for diagnosis purposes to indicate WHETHER Cargo Area Lights (either side of Tailgate) light, and if Glovebox
light lights, with Ignition ON. Same fuse, but different wiring/connectors.
George

[Leohececa]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

It is ALSO important for diagnosis purposes to indicate WHETHER Cargo Area Lights (either side of Tailgate) light, and if Glovebox
light lights, with Ignition ON. Same fuse, but different wiring/connectors.
George

Hi again,

Once more, thanks for all the help given so far. Unfortunately, I don't think we are close to solving the issue yet. Here is some information:

Cargo area lights and glovebox lights do turn on.
I have measured the voltage on Pin #4 and pin #1 of connector X608: 12 healthy volts

I have also managed to connect to INPA and found that it indeed cannot communicate with the IHKA or KLIMA:





Furthermore, I can see that there is a related error about the communication with the climate control unit (CDA9):



As I said before, I bought a second hand control unit and it didn't work either, but I am starting to suspect it could be dead as well (which would bring another issue as the company I bought it from does not accept returns on electronic devices... but that's another story).

What do you think my next step should be? I am completely lost now...

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Leohececa

... Cargo area lights and glovebox lights do turn on. I have measured the voltage on Pin #4 and pin #1 of connector X608: 12 healthy volts. I have also managed to connect to INPA and found that it indeed cannot communicate with the IHKA or KLIMA.
Furthermore, I can see that there is a related error about the communication with the climate control unit (CDA9) [C914 in JBBF ALSO indicates NO expected Message received from IHKA]
I bought a second hand control unit and it didn't work either, but I am starting to suspect it could be dead as well
What do you think my next step should be?

I have never removed my IHKA Module and have NO personal experience as to what the rear of panel looks like. HOWEVER, further examination of ISTA reveals that there are THREE connectors, TWO of which are 12-pin connectors like X608. The OTHER 12-pin Connector is X01198, which is NOT shown on the Power Supply SSP previously attached.

I don't know if there is any identifying information on the Module as to which connector should be attached to which 12-pin set on the Module, OR if there is some difference in the connector/socket that prevents mis-connection. Please let us know, including photos, if two 12-socket Connectors are identical. I will attach ISTA "Heating System" SSP to NEXT Post, along with a Photo from Bentley showing Connectors on rear of Module. There MAY be a difference in Modules or connectors between Variants with CCC/CIC.

If swapped connectors is NOT the issue, I would attempt to "Bench Test" one of the IHKA Modules to see if you can get it to "Light-up" by "PROPERLY" applying 12V+ & Ground to the CORRECT pins on the Module. If you have a small 9V electronics battery, you might first try using that to see if ANY Module function.

I would do the following:

1) Identify IHKA Pins #4 (12V+) and #1 (Ground) to which X608 SHOULD attach;
2) On IHKA unit NOT in car, apply Voltage/Ground to those two pins, and see if any buttons or controls light or LED's display.
3) Test with OTHER connector, X01199 DIS-connected, and also with X01199 Connected.
4) Carefully examine ALL Pins & Sockets, X608/1 through X608/4. Pins #2 & #3 are K-CAN wires.

As you probably know, a Module will NOT appear on the Module List (FJ > F2 Identification), or any other screen, such as FJ > F4 Error Memory ALL Modules, AND CANNOT send messages to other Modules IF:
A) No power supply/ Ground to module;
B) No CAN Bus connection to JBE Hub;
C) The Module has internal fault preventing power-up or Bus signal.

When multiple Modules exhibit same fault when plugged into vehicle harness connectors, the first suspect is Connector/Harness Fault, RATHER than Module fault.
George

[gbalthrop]

Attached are two ScreenPrints referenced in prior post, Bentley photo of IHKA Connectors & ISTA Heating System SSP,
for 2008 320i N43.
George

[Leohececa]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Attached are two ScreenPrints referenced in prior post, Bentley photo of IHKA Connectors & ISTA Heating System SSP,
for 2008 320i N43.
George

Hi again,

So, about the IHKA itself, here is a picture of how it looks like from the rear:



The third connector you are referring to is used to connect the IHKA to additional controls for the seat heating. These are basically a bezel with additional buttons that are connected to the 14 pin connector you are referring to. I must confess that at a certain point I was a little paranoid too, not remembering whether I unplugged two or three connectors when I removed the unit a couple of weeks ago, but after double checking the harnesses coming from the dashboard, as well as many other videos of similar vehicles installing the same system I bough, I am convinced this control unit should work with the X608 and X01199 connectors plugged in.

I have bench tested the unit with a test power supply I have, set to 12 V. It won't light up, but I an not convinced this would be a valid test, something tells me that there should be additional control signals telling the unit which leds should be On or whether the unit backlighting should be On, therefore I don't know how reliable this is.

Also, the connectors in the rear cannot be wrongly connected as BMW engineers cleverly designed them so you can't swap them, there are small differences in their profiles, so that is also ruled out.

I have inspected the pins of the back of the unit as well as the connectors coming from the harnesses (you can taken them apart easily) and they are in very good shape, at least from what I can see.

I am very close to giving up and taking the car to a dealership, but I am very afraid of the bill.

Is there any way for me to test whether those harnesses or any other thing I could test?

[Mike K]

I wonder if you can source yet another IHKA which is still way cheaper than yielding to the dealer racket? Find one that's shown to actually light up possibly on fleabay etc?

[Leohececa]

Originally Posted by Mike K

I wonder if you can source yet another IHKA which is still way cheaper than yielding to the dealer racket? Find one that's shown to actually light up possibly on fleabay etc?

Hey there,

I just purchased another module BUT this time I made sure I can return it if it doesn't light up

I hope to receive it tomorrow or Saturday and then will let you know how it goes!

[Leohececa]

Well,

First of all thanks for the help received. I must say that Georges' intuition was correct when pointing to the connectors.

I had inspected and tested them in all possible ways, but they looked fine and I had no reason to believe the female connectors from the harness were not touching the pins in the back of the unit.

Today I received another second hand unit and was quite upset to see it would not work either. In my anger I squeezed the connector with strength and saw some lights blinking in the unit. After some careful testing I wound there were some positions in which the unit would turn on, but if I would just leave it, it would turn off again, so here's what I did:

I took the connector apart from the harness, it can be done quite easily with a flat screwdriver.



The harness then looks like this:



I plugged it directly to the unit, the female pins are tight enough to hold the connector in place quite firmly:



And then you get yourself a happy ending:



Again, thank you a lot for following up on this and I hope this thread can help other people in the same situation I was!

[Mike K]

Hey that’s great! I guess you have a couple spares now eh?

[Leohececa]

Yep, but I am returning one of them and will try to sell the other

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Leohececa

... I squeezed the connector with strength and saw some lights blinking in the unit. After some careful testing I wound there were some positions in which the unit would turn on, but if I would just leave it, it would turn off again... I plugged it directly to the unit, the female pins are tight enough to hold the connector in place quite firmly...

I don't understand.
It looks like you removed the "Latch" from the Connector, and the connector then fits snug, making proper contact, and the original IHKA Module functions as it should (with other two connectors also attached)?

Did the Latch prevent the connector from inserting into the housing and making contact with the pins? Did the "Latch" which you removed prevent the connector from being properly inserted onto the pins?

More importantly, did you put the IHKA back in place WITHOUT the latch to lock the connector in place? If so, unless that latch is "Over-engineering", someone in Munich thought over time, WITHOUT the latch, the connector would work loose and then your back to NO LIGHTUP on IHKA Panel.

I'm Glad you got it sorted, but I hope you got it "PROPERLY Sorted". If I'm missing something, please enlighten.
George

[F31B48]

Not trying to an A hole but you do realise that grey latch has to be moved while plugging the connector in right?

I notice that the other white connector in the IHKA is not plugged in all the way as well in the photo you attached, so even though the unit now lights up, you will probably have no control of the air distribution flaps as this is what the wires in the white connector control. The top pic is your connector and bottom pic is how it should be.

[Leohececa]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

I don't understand.
If so, unless that latch is "Over-engineering", someone in Munich thought over time, WITHOUT the latch, the connector would work loose and then your back to NO LIGHTUP on IHKA Panel.

I'm Glad you got it sorted, but I hope you got it "PROPERLY Sorted". If I'm missing something, please enlighten.
George

Hi George

Writing this post will be very satisfying to me.

Your guess is right, the latch in the connector seems to be either over engineered or badly-engineered, and I can say this from experience.

As you know, I have tried already three different units and none of them would light up, we now know those units are OK and the issue were the connectors.

BUT the story does not end there! I just came back home from fixing my car again. Today I proudly took the car for some quick groceries and found with much anger and despair that the air conditioning was not blowing any air. I could hear the air flowing as I increased the power in the control unit, but no air was coming out of the vents. To make things worse this beautiful warning showed up in my dashboard:



Of course, I immediately associated those two issues, but was not entirely sure how those were related yet.

Fortunately I found the answer in this very same forum:

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showt...highlight=ihka

10-19-2016 by Sensible_

"I checked the wiring diagram on ISTA. Basically,

When the guy retrofitted CCC, he did so correctly but when reinstalling the IHKA panel he somehow must have disturbed the white connector on the back of the panel and broke several pins.

That white connector is for a local network (LIN) which go direct to the 8 ventilation flap stepper motors. Simply repairing the severed connection made it work."

So I went to the car, took everything apart again and removed this SOAB (sorry for the language, I am quite tired of this already), plugged the naked connector back in the unit and voila I had air coming out of the vents and the warning light was gone.



I really hope this is the last time I have to mess with these things and again, I really hope more people will come across this post and find out that these connector latches suck big time and can be removed with no consequences at all.

[F31B48]

The consequences of removing the grey latch is that the connector is not locked into the IHKA and may fall out over time. Here is a video of how they work and lock in.
https://youtube.com/shorts/ZSmaN4mfMrY?feature=share

[Leohececa]

Hey EvaBmw,

To be honest, I am willing to take the risk, since there's no risk at all. If it ever disconnects then I just plug it back in, andmif it would happen often, then I'd find another solution. The problem is that the pin length is too short to guarantee contact with the female connector from the harness when it has the latch lock mounted, and that's because it puts more space between the actual connector and the pins. The intention of the design is good, but solving one 'problem' the engineers have created another one.

[F31B48]

Originally Posted by Leohececa

Hey EvaBmw,

To be honest, I am willing to take the risk, since there's no risk at all. If it ever disconnects then I just plug it back in, andmif it would happen often, then I'd find another solution. The problem is that the pin length is too short to guarantee contact with the female connector from the harness when it has the latch lock mounted, and that's because it puts more space between the actual connector and the pins. The intention of the design is good, but solving one 'problem' the engineers have created another one.

Again i don't mean to sound like an A hole, but there is nothing wrong with the latches, they work perfectly fine, it's operator error on your part. They are very simple to use. If you are keen on DIYing on these cars then you should learn how to use them as they are on probably 90% of every electrical component of these cars.

[Leohececa]

Hey EvaBmw!

You are not an A hole at all, you are giving quite good help actually!

It could very well have been my mistake. The latches seem very stiff and hard to push into the connector, and that's probably what happened there. I have kept the connectors just in case I'll need them in the future, but for now I won't take everything apart again because it's just a pain...

Again, I appreciate your comments very much and I am happy to learn!