Looking to purchase 2012 BMW M3 Competition - thoughts on condition, good car?

[Gregrobin]

I tend to overthink big purchases. In doing so, I am the type "when I find" it feels right almost immediately.

I started this thread and have since reached an agreed price on the car. The agreed price is slightly higher than CarFax private party:

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2080555

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace...ibextid=dXMIcH

I can't say why, but something feels off about this car. I was excited when I saw it, drove it, kicked the tires, etc. Now, not so much. I think it's because I am comparing it to my previous one and the seller is a bit like a used car salesman.

I paid a BMW Shop to do a presale inspection for me: https://app.autoserve1.com/report/h9R2W8ZKageittEtP

Scroll down to "13 items have service suggested" to see the list of what needs attention now, or soon.

The shop tech guys said it's a good car, showing it's age, needs to brought up to date on service. The paint has swirls, shows blending (from previous repairs) scratches, and such that should be addressed. See below. They said "it looks like the seller ran it thru car wash places".

Carfax shows a great service history, personal use, 4 owners and 2 accidents, one moderate, one minor.

I paid for, and we are waiting for, an oil analysis even though I know it will not show anything with the bearings (2011 car, different medal, not copper, they are aluminum). Seller did an oil analysis 10k ago that showed high fuel and iron, so I want to see that come down in the current analysis. I also paid 1/2 for the oil/filter change to get the oil sample, as a good gesture to the seller. So, I have about $400 in the car.

The rod bearings have not been replaced. I have $4000~ estimates, plus motor mounts to get them done.

To me it looks like an owner who deferred some maintenance and is now selling the car, after they purchased a new one.

It doesn't show as well as my prior 08 335i E93. That car was pristine by the time I sold it. But I think it has potential to get there.

Seller is odd, too salesy, retired, doesn't seem to have abused the car. He is not a car guy, this was a daily driver for him. It will be a weekend driver garaged car for me.

Does anyone see any red flags with this car, reasons not to purchase it, etc.?

Thanks

[kolosy]

inspection link doesn't open..

but regardless, i think your other thread sums up the red flags nicely. it's a higher mileage car that's had two accidents. a moderate accident in carfax parlance isn't all that moderate i'd imagine. if you're looking for along term hold, i don't think this is it. if you're looking for a project car, then this probably fits the bill.

[Gregrobin]

1. Valve covers are leaking
2. Transmission is leaking
3. Rotors are lipped
4. Lots a chips/scratches/swirl marks in the paint (the shop that did the PPI said it looked like it had been in an accident, then I told them it had been)
5. Tech said over the phone it needs new plugs and oxygen sensor
6. Having done the plugs myself on the 08 335i I thought "no problem" until I watchd how to YouTube videos.

I updated the inspection link.

I thought I could do some of this work myself, including the rod bearings, however after watching YouTube videos, it's more complicated than the service/mods I did to the 335i. I had no idea you should replace the valve covers when replacing the gaskets as well. Plus I need a lift for some of it. So, best guess from getting some quick estimates from shops is I am looking at $10,000 for the deferred service. Add that to the purchase price and I am over what the car is worth today.

[kolosy]

Originally Posted by Gregrobin

1. Valve covers are leaking
2. Transmission is leaking
3. Rotors are lipped
4. Lots a chips/scratches/swirl marks in the paint (the shop that did the PPI said it looked like it had been in an accident, then I told them it had been)
5. Tech said over the phone it needs new plugs and oxygen sensor
6. Having done the plugs myself on the 08 335i I thought "no problem" until I watchd how to YouTube videos.

I updated the inspection link.

I thought I could do some of this work myself, including the rod bearings, however after watching YouTube videos, it's more complicated than the service/mods I did to the 335i. I had no idea you should replace the valve covers when replacing the gaskets as well. Plus I need a lift for some of it. So, best guess from getting some quick estimates from shops is I am looking at $10,000 for the deferred service. Add that to the purchase price and I am over what the car is worth today.

yeah, all those are consistent with a 120k mile car. my biggest issue is the accident history.

what about the plug videos gave you pause if you'd done them before on a 335? only disassembly i think is moving the airbox out of the way (not the plenum).

valve covers are straightforward too, just somewhat time consuming if you're slow like me. rod bearings -- yeah, that's a serious undertaking. lift isn't required but certainly helps. plenty of people have done them on jackstands.

[Gregrobin]

Originally Posted by kolosy

what about the plug videos gave you pause if you'd done them before on a 335? only disassembly i think is moving the airbox out of the way (not the plenum).

Not sure what I watched before, I just watched this one, a knuckle buster but doable. I guess I should replace the coils, like I did in the 335i, while I am at it?

[kolosy]

yeah it's really not bad. just get a coil puller (there used to be a good cnc-machined one for ~$50 iirc). just something that can grab on to the back of the coil.

coils are expensive and don't fail until they do. no real reason to replace until you start getting issues.

[Gregrobin]

Nobody else has thoughts, opinions, on this car? That might be a first for an internet forum :-)

[e92dud]

Originally Posted by Gregrobin

Nobody else has thoughts, opinions, on this car? That might be a first for an internet forum :-)

Looks like an average e92 m3 for sale.

[Gregrobin]

Originally Posted by e92dud

Looks like an average e92 m3 for sale.

Thanks

[VR1]

I think its a fair price at $25k.

Exterior wear does seem to be higher than average - I would bank $1k to get the paint cleaned up. Not sure how much it would cost you to get the rest of the exterior fixed.

However, if we assume:

Rod bearings are $3k with mounts (this is what I paid)
Dropping and resealing the trans is $1600 (rough estimate)
and Valve Cover Gaskets are $1000 (rough estimate)

You're ~$31k in. With the costs of cleaning the paint and exterior reconditioning you're probably at ~32-33k. At that price you could buy a lower mileage no accident car that already had the bearing job and other maintenance items done.

If you're doing the work DIY it's probably a good candidate though.

[Gregrobin]

Originally Posted by VR1

I think its a fair price at $25k.

Exterior wear does seem to be higher than average - I would bank $1k to get the paint cleaned up. Not sure how much it would cost you to get the rest of the exterior fixed.

However, if we assume:

Rod bearings are $3k with mounts (this is what I paid)
Dropping and resealing the trans is $1600 (rough estimate)
and Valve Cover Gaskets are $1000 (rough estimate)

You're ~$31k in. With the costs of cleaning the paint and exterior reconditioning you're probably at ~32-33k. At that price you could buy a lower mileage no accident car that already had the bearing job and other maintenance items done.

If you're doing the work DIY it's probably a good candidate though.

Thank you for your comments. This was my initial assessment as well, then I started getting quotes from BMW shops for the service. Service seems to be more expensive on the east coast.

• Rod bearings are $5000 including new engine mounts
• Dropping and resealing the trans is $2500
• Valve Cover Gaskets are $3000 (I was informed the covers need to be replaced as well, they can't be reused)
• New rotors on next brake pad replacement ($2000)

So, I am at $12,500 assuming all goes as planned.

I am comfortable doing the exterior myself, I have the polishers and buffers. Assuming it can be reconditioned.

I watched How To Videos on the rod bearings. Though capable, that is not one I want to tackle by myself. At a minimum I would need a lift, and the bar that holds the engine up after the subframe is loose.

Valve covers though doable looks like a nightmare with all the pieces/parts to remove and reinstall and get it right. I could see myself chasing down "something I missed/forgot" for months.

I learned yesterday 7 of the Carfax service records are basically fake; the seller worked there, there was no real service. Other little things like this from the seller bug me.

You are right, I am somewhere around $35K at the point. So, the question I am asking myself is do I want to invest that money in another one, or take the risk with this one?

Rhetorical questions I know...

[kolosy]

like i said before -- these cars cost ~$30K. either through sale price of a good one, or through work to get one there.

[VR1]

Originally Posted by Gregrobin

Thank you for your comments. This was my initial assessment as well, then I started getting quotes from BMW shops for the service. Service seems to be more expensive on the east coast.

• Rod bearings are $5000 including new engine mounts
• Dropping and resealing the trans is $2500
• Valve Cover Gaskets are $3000 (I was informed the covers need to be replaced as well, they can't be reused)
• New rotors on next brake pad replacement ($2000)

So, I am at $12,500 assuming all goes as planned.

I am comfortable doing the exterior myself, I have the polishers and buffers. Assuming it can be reconditioned.

I watched How To Videos on the rod bearings. Though capable, that is not one I want to tackle by myself. At a minimum I would need a lift, and the bar that holds the engine up after the subframe is loose.

Valve covers though doable looks like a nightmare with all the pieces/parts to remove and reinstall and get it right. I could see myself chasing down "something I missed/forgot" for months.

I learned yesterday 7 of the Carfax service records are basically fake; the seller worked there, there was no real service. Other little things like this from the seller bug me.

You are right, I am somewhere around $35K at the point. So, the question I am asking myself is do I want to invest that money in another one, or take the risk with this one?

Rhetorical questions I know...

For $35k all in I would absolutely not buy this car and I see no reason to. You can buy a clean 60-80k mile no-accident example with most of the major maintenance items done (Bearings, Valve Cover Gaskets, T/As, DCT reseal) that also won't have the exterior wear this car has for $35k. (In fact I paid $36k for my no accident '11 competition with 55k miles back in 2021). I would look around on these forums, Facebook groups (M3 V8 owners club, M3 classifieds), and M3List.com (they also have an Instagram page). I bet if you posted a WTB listing for $35k for a car with maintenance you'd get a good amount of hits within a week or two.

Neither here nor there but the quotes you posted for the work are a bit high but not sure how pricing is in your area.
The Valve covers can be reused *I think* if they're not flaking/deteriorating (I reused mine when I did my gaskets). If you do replace the covers on whatever car you end up buying It's recommended to get a set of aluminum covers (the oem Magnesium is the issue).
For bearings, I paid $2600 with mounts and I paid ~$1800ish to drop and reseal the trans.
You can find the OEM rotors on FCPEuro for about $1k for the whole set and I don't think they're that hard to DIY but I've never done it myself. Also if you buy from FCPEuro you get lifetime replacement on them.

Even at the labor prices I paid though, I wouldn't buy this car when I could find a car with maintenance and no exterior reconditioning needed for ~$33k.

[M3SQRD]

I’d pass on this one. If the seller falsified service records, what other issues does this car potentially have? Instead of having to put in $12.5k, you might have to put $20k+ into it. I’d go for a $35-38k car instead but still have $5-6k ready for odds and ends. These cars are now at least 12yo (I have an ‘09 and ‘12, both bought new) so you never know what’ll need to be replaced. Good luck with your search!

[Gregrobin]

Yeah, I am leaning towards No. Even after restoring the exterior and paying to get the service up to date I still have a high mileage one with 5 owners, 2 accidents and 2 additional reports of damage on the Carfax.

[PACarGuy]

I also see a little too much rust for my liking. Maybe it's mostly surface rust and I didn't look at all of the pics, but there's a little too much corrosion in a few spots that it gives me a bit of pause when there are probably better examples out there. Would pass.

[Bimmer Barney]

Here’s my $0.02. I’ve had a 335i (N54) and an M3 now. I do all my own work and am a good mechanic.

This car as is at $25k seems fair.

Rod bearings should be done by someone with experience. I paid $2543 including motor mounts from a reputable Indy shop.
Spark Plugs and Valve Covers are easy. I’ve done both. No special tools required other than a re-bent coat hanger to pull the coils. Valve covers can’t be reused if they’re warped, and that’s common (in case you were wondering why they can’t be reused). $1600 for new covers and all the gaskets.
Trans leaking is likely the mechatronics cover and pan and I’d probably let a shop do that because I don’t have a lift and it’s more of a space/access issue.
Replacing rotors is the same as on the 335i. Rotors are about $600 per axle.

My buddy sold a 2011 true unicorn E90 well maintained (including rod bearings) with 105k miles for $34k before the used car market went nuts. Today it would fetch $40k easy. I have the same in my garage now but more maintenance and some nice upgrades and I think I could get $40k tomorrow without any trouble and I have 108k miles.

To address the usual maintenance suspects plus what you’ve listed should run somewhere around $10k using a combination of DIY and paying labor. I think for a 10 yr old car with 120k miles some paint touch up and some polishing is to be expected. I don’t see anything in your post that seems abnormal to me.

I trust my gut on used cars but what you’ve outlined seems normal to me and so does the price. The only thing I don’t like in the inspection is the subframe corrosion but I’m in CA so rust isn’t something our cars have.

[Reddevils7]

If you're looking in the east coast, I used auto couture motoring. complete rod bearing kit service with new mounts was 2500 + tax. 5k is way too much

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by Gregrobin

• Rod bearings are $5000 including new engine mounts
• Dropping and resealing the trans is $2500
• Valve Cover Gaskets are $3000 (I was informed the covers need to be replaced as well, they can't be reused)
• New rotors on next brake pad replacement ($2000)

RB - getting robbed, $2000 MAX. - includes parts (bearings, engine mounts, alignment)

DCT - getting robbed, $2000 MAX. - includes parts (fluid, dct hardware)

Valve Cover - getting robbed - $2500 MAX - includes parts
(VC,gaskets,gromets)

Brakes - getting robbed - $1400 max - includes parts (4x rotors, 2x set of brake pads, 2x brake fluid)

this is all SoCal Pricing at least..

if you're going to spend that much, better off buying a higher mileage M3 to reduce overall cost.

[Gregrobin]

I wish I had control of these prices, I don't. I have shopped 3 different local shops, prices are consistent.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by Gregrobin

I wish I had control of these prices, I don't. I have shopped 3 different local shops, prices are consistent.

it is what it is.. but i stand by that if you're going to spend sub $15K to get the car running 'optimally' i would just look into higher mileage E9X M3 at this point.

or up your budge buy just a better E9X M3 with everything done already.

[Ximian]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

RB - getting robbed, $2000 MAX. - includes parts (bearings, engine mounts, alignment)

DCT - getting robbed, $2000 MAX. - includes parts (fluid, dct hardware)

Valve Cover - getting robbed - $2500 MAX - includes parts
(VC,gaskets,gromets)

Brakes - getting robbed - $1400 max - includes parts (4x rotors, 2x set of brake pads, 2x brake fluid)

this is all SoCal Pricing at least..

if you're going to spend that much, better off buying a higher mileage M3 to reduce overall cost.

Based on these prices, SoCal must be the most affordable place in the country.

Jokes aside, if a shop charging 5k for rod bearing, run. $4k is the price on the expensive end.

If you're going to buy a terrible example of an M3 and pay to fix it up, at least find one in SoCal to save on labor costs. Either ship it back home once the work is done or take a memorable cross-country trip.