[M2siast]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4

Yeah and? What's your issue? And why do you care so much about my OPINION?

And oh...sorry...$160k x 2315 units is still a shite load of $...

An observation my friend

Revenue is irrelevant though…

Even if BMW made $200 million on selling XMs in the US, that is a meaningless statistic.

[BMWZ4]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Revenue is irrelevant though…

Even if BMW made $200 million on selling XMs in the US, that is a meaningless statistic.

I wonder if bmw shareholders would feel the same way...but sure, stand corrected

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4

I wonder if bmw shareholders would feel the same way...but sure, stand corrected

They would.
They already know BMW is a large corporation. Revenue just shows you how big your operations are.

As a shareholder, I’d be interested to know the profit numbers.

If you look at sales, and it says you made $200 million, but your COGS is $250 million, would you rather that than $100 million in sales with $50 million COGS? I’d go with option 2.

[BMWZ4]

Originally Posted by M2siast

They would.
They already know BMW is a large corporation. Revenue just shows you how big your operations are.

As a shareholder, I’d be interested to know the profit numbers.

If you look at sales, and it says you made $200 million, but your COGS is $250 million, would you rather that than $100 million in sales with $50 million COGS? I’d go with option 2.

I seriously doubt cogs is $250 on that vehicle. In fact, I suspect the profit margin is likely pretty high for this vehicle.

In any event, neither of know, so annecdotal really

[M2siast]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4

I seriously doubt cogs is $250 on that vehicle. In fact, I suspect the profit margin is likely pretty high for this vehicle.

In any event, neither of know, so annecdotal really

For sure. My point is just that revenue is one datapoint that doesn’t tell us much without knowing how much there is in profit for that vehicle.
I too think the margin is high on it, but it could theoretically be negative, and BMW loses money on it. Who knows. That’s just what I’m saying.

Obviously, the larger the margin, the better the results, and if you have more sales of that high margin, even better. Is all

[BMWZ4]

Originally Posted by M2siast

For sure. My point is just that revenue is one datapoint that doesn’t tell us much without knowing how much there is in profit for that vehicle.
I too think the margin is high on it, but it could theoretically be negative, and BMW loses money on it. Who knows. That’s just what I’m saying.

Obviously, the larger the margin, the better the results, and if you have more sales of that high margin, even better. Is all

Sure, I'll give you that...anything is possible

[Bongoxxx]

Wow, some perspective here…

BMW N/A sales - 395,741
Tesla USA Model Y sales - 394,497

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Bongoxxx

Wow, some perspective here…

BMW N/A sales - 395,741
Tesla USA Model Y sales - 394,497

BYD Annual 2023 Sales 3,024,417 Sometimes I just hate perspective.
https://www.byd.com/us/news-list/BYD...EV-Market.html

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by BMWZ4

I seriously doubt cogs is $250 on that vehicle. In fact, I suspect the profit margin is likely pretty high for this vehicle.

In any event, neither of know, so annecdotal really

There was a lot of R&D expense cost for the XM, as it was a bespoke M product, but the R&D should also be allocated to the upcoming M5 and M5 touring, and future generation X5M/X6M, as the hybrid S68 will carry on to those models.

Besides dealerships offering upwards of a 15% discount on the XM, BMW NA had upwards of $9,900 to the customer. Who knows how much trunk money dealerships received from BMW NA to move the sitting XM units that required heavy discounting to move out the door.

[Ibiza]

Originally Posted by ChrisM4

Aside from gross units sold I’m not sure this is a good news story. Their high margin vehicles (X5-X7) all had major sales decreases.

I know there’s market/inflationary pressures in the US but that decline is pretty surprising. They might want to revisit their pricing strategy unless they’re confident interest rate decreases ahead of the next election will help drive sales in the next few quarters.

Odd not to see G80-G82 sales broken out either.

To “juice” the M sales numbers, BMW now includes the M performance models.

I agree that the decline of the X5-X7 is not good news for BMW AG and BMW NA, considering that 30% of Plant Spartanburg production is for US market.

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by odiesback

You just validated his argument! The cost of the battery being that high has the opposite affect to retaining any value. Your residual means nothing, and if you pay attention, there are clear indicators that you will be up to a shocking reality soon.

EVs aren’t that new, we already know you’re wrong.

Most 2020 model EVs lost around %50 of their values - like Porsche Taycan; very similar to their ICE counterparts. Tesla is an exception, as they were severely overpriced and overhyped. So they had to lower their MSRPs when real car companies came in the play, which of course contributed to the depreciation. BMW has released 2 EVs as 2022 models, so let’s see how they compare to their ICE counterparts:

2022 BMW iX 50i at 30.000 miles value at resale: $55,000 - $63,000
2022 BMW X5 M50i at 30.000 miles value at resale: $58,000 - $62,000
( KBB, Excellent condition, both MSRP around $105,000)

2022 BMW i4 M50 at 30.000 miles value at resale: $46,000 - $50,000
2022 BMW M440i GranCoupe at 30.000 miles value at resale: $44,000 - $48,000
( KBB, Excellent condition, both MSRP around $70,000)

And this is despite iX and i4 having incentives when you buy it brand new - which lowers the resale value.
So what’s up with that?

There are also 10+ years old EVs out there, the percentage of the ones that require battery service is in the single digits. And to come to that level, you really have to abuse your battery. So we have these numbers, but thousands of trolls are still parroting the same thing.

On top of all this, knowing a bit about EVs and ICE cars, I’d be way more comfortable buying a 3-4 year old EV over a 3-4 year old ICE. As EVs are way easier to inspect, and way less parts to go wrong. People will learn about this as the time passes, but now they’re constantly fed lies, so they’re confused.

Also, I’m leasing, and iX is the most impressive car I’ve ever had, so I don’t really care and I won’t be ‘shocked’

[FCX5]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

EVs aren’t that new, we already know you’re wrong.

Most 2020 model EVs lost around %50 of their values - like Porsche Taycan; very similar to their ICE counterparts. Tesla is an exception, as they were severely overpriced and overhyped. So they had to lower their MSRPs when real car companies came in the play, which of course contributed to the depreciation. BMW has released 2 EVs as 2022 models, so let’s see how they compare to their ICE counterparts:

2022 BMW iX 50i at 30.000 miles value at resale: $55,000 - $63,000
2022 BMW X5 M50i at 30.000 miles value at resale: $58,000 - $62,000
( KBB, Excellent condition, both MSRP around $105,000)

2022 BMW i4 M50 at 30.000 miles value at resale: $46,000 - $50,000
2022 BMW M440i GranCoupe at 30.000 miles value at resale: $44,000 - $48,000
( KBB, Excellent condition, both MSRP around $70,000)

And this is despite iX and i4 having incentives when you buy it brand new - which lowers the resale value.
So what’s up with that?

There are also 10+ years old EVs out there, the percentage of the ones that require battery service is in the single digits. And to come to that level, you really have to abuse your battery. So we have these numbers, but thousands of trolls are still parroting the same thing.

On top of all this, knowing a bit about EVs and ICE cars, I’d be way more comfortable buying a 3-4 year old EV over a 3-4 year old ICE. As EVs are way easier to inspect, and way less parts to go wrong. People will learn about this as the time passes, but now they’re constantly fed lies, so they’re confused.

Also, I’m leasing, [...]

I agree with your comment. My wife also drives an iX. She had a Model Y Performance before that. The iX is our go to vehicle for long trips. We got ours in 2022 and it has been a great experience. Yes, if you have access to the EV infrastructure, it is hard to go back from EV to full ICE.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by FCX5

I agree with your comment. My wife also drives an iX. She had a Model Y Performance before that. The iX is our go to vehicle for long trips. We got ours in 2022 and it has been a great experience. Yes, if you have access to the EV infrastructure, it is hard to go back from EV to full ICE.

Where we live in the southeast US, new superchargers are opening up regularly and there are plenty of chargers on our road trip routes.

But I still prefer the X7 to the model Y for the road trips because we have three kids and don’t want to stop to charge. We would have to stop two or three times on our trips to the beach or 4+ times for longer trips.

And premium fuel is about $4 per gallon, so the cost savings to supercharge is not that compelling - saving about $50 round trip. We get 25-26 mpg on the X7 which is a range of 550 miles.

I’d like to see an iX with 6 seats that’s a bit larger, but given our use case and cost of fuel it doesn’t really beat ICE. To me EV’s are for commuting and not road trips, especially if you have kids to haul around.

[odiesback]

Originally Posted by Cortexiphan

EVs aren’t that new, we already know you’re wrong.

Most 2020 model EVs lost around %50 of their values - like Porsche Taycan; very similar to their ICE counterparts. Tesla is an exception, as they were severely overpriced and overhyped. So they had to lower their MSRPs when real car companies came in the play, which of course contributed to the depreciation. BMW has released 2 EVs as 2022 models, so let’s see how they compare to their ICE counterparts:

2022 BMW iX 50i at 30.000 miles value at resale: $55,000 - $63,000
2022 BMW X5 M50i at 30.000 miles value at resale: $58,000 - $62,000
( KBB, Excellent condition, both MSRP around $105,000)

2022 BMW i4 M50 at 30.000 miles value at resale: $46,000 - $50,000
2022 BMW M440i GranCoupe at 30.000 miles value at resale: $44,000 - $48,000
( KBB, Excellent condition, both MSRP around $70,000)

And this is despite iX and i4 having incentives when you buy it brand new - which lowers the resale value.
So what’s up with that?

There are also 10+ years old EVs out there, the percentage of the ones that require battery service is in the single digits. And to come to that level, you really have to abuse your battery. So we have these numbers, but thousands of trolls are still parroting the same thing.

On top of all this, knowing a bit about EVs and ICE cars, I’d be way more comfortable buying a 3-4 year old EV over a 3-4 year old ICE. As EVs are way easier to inspect, and way less parts to go wrong. People will learn about this as the time passes, but now they’re constantly fed lies, so they’re confused.

Also, I’m leasing, [...]

Gotta love when someone has to write a novel to try to prove a point! Gkad it’s your money, not mine!

“It’s always easier to fool someone than convincing someone they’ve been fooled!”

[Cortexiphan]

Originally Posted by odiesback

Gotta love when someone has to write a novel to try to prove a point! Gkad it’s your money, not mine!

“It’s always easier to fool someone than convincing someone they’ve been fooled!”

I guess the reason you're so uninformed, is that 20 lines of reading is like a 'novel' to you. Guess what, most things need more than 20 lines of explanation, especially when dealing with intellectually deficient people like yourself.
Good luck

[Jsmith007]

Originally Posted by PawnStar

I wonder what percentage of iX vehicles generated a dollar of profit for the dealerships and distributor. Most, if not all, deals were 9-12% discounts plus 9900 incentive and subsidized residual and rate. While BMWFS will get absolutely crushed in ~3 years when iX will start coming off lease. I estimate average 20-30k loss per car.

The i4, especially the M50 had a long waiting list for about a year- there was no added incentive offered by BMW for most of 2023 for those vehicles.

[FCX5]

[QUOTE="Car-Addicted;30790933"]BYD Annual 2023 Sales 3,024,417 Sometimes I just hate perspective.
https://www.byd.com/us/news-list/BYD...EV-Market.html

In fairness, I think BYD will have a hard time in the US market. I was driven around in a BYD EV for a few days in India. It was one of their SUVs, about the size of a Toyota Highlander. Tesla Model Y seems like a luxury product compared to the build quality of the BYD. However, the manufacturing scale of BYD is impressive. Most Chinese smartphone manufacturers easily sell more than iphone, but they all really on Android or Google to be successful for their operating system. I noticed with the BYD, the UI was just not as polished…they are probably at least 4-5 years away from challenging brands like BMW and Tesla for US and other high-end, higher margin markets. Some markets are very value driven and price sensitive (like India), there the Chinese manufacturers like BYD will do great.

Anyway, BMW had impressive sales across their entire line-up. But have to also credit Tesla, since they are the only US company now able to compete globally and be profitable across all markets (as far as I can tell)….