Tire Talk Megathread

[tsk94]

The goal of this thread will be to centralize all track tire related discussions. Whether it’s a street tire, 200tw tires, r-compounds, or slicks, this is the place to talk tires that will see track time.
Questions, reviews, comparisons, deals & discounts – it all goes.

We’ll see if this takes off, the idea was to consolidate tire discussions to 1 main thread, rather then being split between the general chit chat thread and numerous new threads that get posted every now and then. If it takes off, great! If not, this thread can die and we can go back to discussing this primarily in the chit chat thread as we do now, so we’ll see what happens

[tsk94]

Since I started this thread, I feel a bit obligated to sort of start things off.
As some of you are aware, I no longer have my E92. We sold it last year and are happy to say it found a great new home with OG Shark. So, this year I will be tracking both an E36 and an M4. While I will no longer be able to provide direct reviews from the E92 platform, I do think I’ll be able to provide some good info on how compounds compare to one another in terms of life, speed, etc.

For the M4 this year we’ll be running a few different tires. Nankang AR1’s in 295/315, NT01 is 275/315 (they need a 295 or a shorter 305..), and Toyo RR in 295/315. I’m quite familiar with all of these at this point. This has been my experience with all the above (on my E92):
- I’ve found the AR1’s to probably be the fastest, but they heat cycle out quickly and lose speed very fast. For the first 10 heats they are good, then fall off a cliff. They wear quite well but they get so slow that you stop caring that they have a ton of tread left when you’re 2 seconds off the pace of what they did when new..
- NT01 are a known quantity at this point. They wear very well, don’t heat cycle out and are moderately quick for todays standard of lapping/HPDE tires.
- Toyo RR’s are faster then the NT01, but not much. According to Toyo, they use the same rubber compound as the NT01, so the extra speed is likely in the larger contact patch due to no grooves and wider width (295 RR vs. 275 NT01). Beyond that, they wear well and don’t heat cycle out like the Nitto’s. One thing to keep in mind though is the RR’s start with less tread depth to begin with then the NT01, so they won’t last as long (6.3/32nd for the NT01 vs. 4/32nd for the RR)

Beyond that, we will have a set of 255/275 Continental ContiSportContact 5P’s for those days it down pours. Because as some of you have experienced, the NT01 and the RR aren’t great when standing water happens. Curious to see how a street tire performs in the wet, it’s probably been 7-8 years since I’ve driven on track in my own car on a street tire.

On the E36 I will be running NT01’s and Hankook RS4’s. I’m curious to see how these 2 will compare to one another in the same size on the same car. I’ve driven both tires before, but never on the same car in the exact same size. My gut tells me the NT01 will still be faster, but perhaps by not as much as I’d think. I’m also confident the RS4 will last longer – question is how much longer? If the RS4’s isn’t much slower but last longer, that may be the go-to tire for the E36 going forward for lapping, so we’ll see.
Plan is to run either the ECF next to see how they compare to the Nitto and Hankook.
I’m also looking at potentially getting a set of Indy 500’s as my ‘wet’ tire and the tire I drive to and from the track on. Anyone with experience of the Indy 500’s in the wet I’d be curious to hear your thoughts! I've driven them, but only in the dry on track.

I wanted to keep this post brief, but this is getting way to long. Hopefully this can get the ball rolling at least lol.

[b4hand]

Love this. I am on 275 RS4's now and they have been great. Not as much grip as NT01's though but they're talkative and handle heat well (can still get overheated). I plan to throw a set of ECFs on your old wheels I bought from OG Shark later this year but plan to push these rs4's and learn as much as I can about driving on the limit.

[rhyary]

I will be testing the V720 305/30/19 on the rear.
I had the V720 275/35/19 on the rear and liked it.
Front is RE-71R 265/35/19 and I already know I like it.

The V720 is discontinued, but the current V730 looks very similar.

[DrFerry]

Ultimate track tire guide | 200tw, 100tw, street-legal track and R-comps

Great idea for a thread. Let's see where this goes.. Grassroots Motorsports pledged to keep their source of test data updated as new products become available.
.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ar...-buyers-guide/
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Sub'd.. Figured I'd leave this Reference table information below at the start of the this thread. The Grassroots article at the link above is actually a pretty decent read. The main article contains embedded links to individual tire test articles and results data for each of the tires shown and compared in the table.
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[Gossypiboma]

I run NT01's as a track day only tire so I don't care about how loud they are or how terrible in the rain they can be. They seem to last 6-7 days, very consistent with good grip. They don't talk to you at all, but you should be able to drive by feel as well.

There seems to be a lot of NT01 haters and I don't get it. If you look at the above chart there aren't many better options if your looking for a track only tire.

Ide really like to hear feedback about the Eagle F1 3R's. I may try those next or the ECF.

[tsk94]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

Ultimate track tire guide | 200tw, 100tw, street-legal track and R-comps

Great idea for a thread. Let's see where this goes.. Grassroots Motorsports pledged to keep their source of test data updated as new products become available.
.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/ar...-buyers-guide/
.
Sub'd.. Figured I'd leave this Reference table information below at the start of the this thread. The Grassroots article at the link above is actually a pretty decent read. The main article contains embedded links to individual tire test articles and results data for each of the tires shown and compared in the table.
.

Thanks for posting that. I have a physical copy of that sitting around, but it's a very good quick reference guide and excellent for this thread!

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by rhyary

I will be testing the V720 305/30/19 on the rear.
I had the V720 275/35/19 on the rear and liked it.
Front is RE-71R 265/35/19 and I already know I like it.

The V720 is discontinued, but the current V730 looks very similar.

V730 is more of the ACR compound.

but RE71RS are now on pre-order at tirerack...

275/35/18 for $350... per tire lmao so ECF and RE71RS will be neck and neck.

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by omgzirra_exe

V730 is more of the ACR compound.

but RE71RS are now on pre-order at tirerack...

275/35/18 for $350... per tire lmao so ECF and RE71RS will be neck and neck.

Crazy prices.
Do people really pay $350/tire? :-)

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Crazy prices.
Do people really pay $350/tire? :-)

That's cheap by some measures....
.

[omgzirra_exe]

Originally Posted by rhyary

Crazy prices.
Do people really pay $350/tire? :-)

its not bad in relative to what we have now, its slighter cheaper than A052, its supposedly slightly faster, but if it ends up being slower pace but longer then idk.

thats the real question.

[PrimeBMW]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

That's cheap by some measures....
.

I typically get about eight days out of a R7 and could probably get close to that with the A7. The limiting factor is the correct camber and it's different for each tire.

[b4hand]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

I typically get about eight days out of a R7 and could probably get close to that with the A7. The limiting factor is the correct camber and it's different for each tire.

What is a "day" for you?

[DrFerry]

Originally Posted by PrimeBMW

I typically get about eight days out of a R7 and could probably get close to that with the A7. The limiting factor is the correct camber and it's different for each tire.

Agreed. The R7/A7 twins use different compounds *BUT* neither is really a true radial tire in the sense of radial design. Both use a bias body ply carcass angle on the order of 45 degrees - at least they did last time I dissected one. This is sometimes referred to as a 'semi-bias' carcass design. For this reason the R7/A7 twins love more camber and operate at larger slip angles. Think; easy to drift and slide but with the added sidewall stiffness that bias ply design inherently brings. Sure it's old tech, but if your set up can dial in enough negative camber (and caster) you'll reap the rewards of fast and easy to drive with these two solutions. Keep in mind that adding as much caster as possible is desirable up to a certain point because the suspension and tire will gain camber when turning.

Now steel-belted, semi-bias ply tire wear life (worse) is a totally different topic partially because of the larger slip angle operating regime than seen with ninety degree radial carcass designs. In the old days when bias tires were king, even the F1 champs slid and drifted around while still going quickly (see image below).

In a relatively low downforce car (no ground effects), if the car isn't almost on the verge of being partially out of control all the time, then lap time is being left on the table by the driver (regardless of bias ply or radial solutions). One way to tell (for relatively low downforce cars) which drivers are going slow (other than the stopwatch) is if the tires are not "talking" in every corner then that driver is driving the tires below the limit and not on the peak of available grip (on the limit).

If the tires are screaming at you then that's too far over the limit, but being able to hear them "talk to you" - even with a helmet on - is one way to know for sure you're not leaving lap time on the table. Example: 1/10th of a second lost in every corner on a 13 corner track (say Road ATL) is 1.3 seconds lost per lap. Multiply that by 30 laps and you get 39 secs!
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[tsk94]

Originally Posted by DrFerry

That's cheap by some measures....
.

I was paying $2500/set up here for A7's.. I wish I was paying $350/tire rhyary

[derbo]

What is considered operating temperature?

1 heat cycle as I understand it is cool > operating temperature > cool.



Based on that understanding:

1 heat cycle = 1 session track day, 1 session cool.

1 heat cycle = back to back 2 sessions in trackday.


Is that correct to think this way?

[rhyary]

Originally Posted by tsk94

I was paying $2500/set up here for A7's.. I wish I was paying $350/tire rhyary

Will see if this work this season.
.

[tsk94]

I would consider a heat cycle essentially on a per session basis. Where you bring the tire up to operating temp and it cools down (not necessarily down to ambient temp).
1 session = 1 heat cycle

The only time it wouldn't apply I suppose is when you go out for a session and almost immediately go back out for another.

[e36clubracer]

My source tells me Hoosier A7s are good for 4 fast heat cycles before they start falling off. The R7s are good for 8 heat cycles before they start falling off.

A7s are good for cooler weather and ~ 20 minute or so sprints while the R7s are more durable and can go warmer weather with longer stints.

We're starting with the R7s on our e36.

[Redd]

Great thread! Here's a tough one for everyone here - I'm looking for a 200tw tire that I can take to the occasional trackday and also daily in wet weather.

I'm currently using Yokohama Advan AD08R but it's an old compound and I'd like a tire which can give me a bit more grip on track. The problem I've had with finding a replacement is that the AD08R is one of those great at nothing, but good at everything tires. Good grip, good steering feel, handles heat cycles well, wears well, usable down to the wear markers, decently low noise levels, usable in the wet and hydroplanes straight.

Know any other tires that fit that description? I don't need it to set hero laps, just need it to survive the occasional trackday without turning into a brick after some heat. I was considering the Dunlop Direzza Z3 but they don't have the sizes I need in my country.

Hankook RS4 is popular here but having driven RS2 in the past, they were super noisy and had sharp grip drop-off after 50%. Is the RS4 better in that respect?

Any suggestions will be welcome.

[Gossypiboma]

Originally Posted by Redd

Great thread! Here's a tough one for everyone here - I'm looking for a 200tw tire that I can take to the occasional trackday and also daily in wet weather.

I'm currently using Yokohama Advan AD08R but it's an old compound and I'd like a tire which can give me a bit more grip on track. The problem I've had with finding a replacement is that the AD08R is one of those great at nothing, but good at everything tires. Good grip, good steering feel, handles heat cycles well, wears well, usable down to the wear markers, decently low noise levels, usable in the wet and hydroplanes straight.

Know any other tires that fit that description? I don't need it to set hero laps, just need it to survive the occasional trackday without turning into a brick after some heat. I was considering the Dunlop Direzza Z3 but they don't have the sizes I need in my country.

Hankook RS4 is popular here but having driven RS2 in the past, they were super noisy and had sharp grip drop-off after 50%. Is the RS4 better in that respect?

Any suggestions will be welcome.

The continental ECF might be a good option to try.

[Redd]

Yeah waiting for ECF to arrive here.