MCS Singles Installed - Initial Impressions - track notes added 10/25/2014

[dbyrd]

After six weeks of waiting for these to be built and tested, I had them installed last week with 450/800 spring rates. Vorshlag is an MCS distributor and local to me so they did the installation. The dampers themselves are pieces of art - simply beautiful. The guys at Vorshlag test and race most of the parts they sell, and I felt like I was in great hands.

Vorshlag recommended lowering by only 3/8 inch. I'm more interested in performance than looks. This is my daily driver and I hope to hit the track monthly. Unfortunately, my next track event isn't for another 5 weeks. The dampers have 18 clicks of rebound.

Vorshlag posted photos on their site here:
http://vorshlag.smugmug.com/Customer...5454&k=dq5n2GW

The initial setup for street was 8 clicks from full soft. I was surprised that the initial feel was very supple, even close to OEM but with less body roll. These spring rates are quite comfortable with these dampers , and I can easily see going with stiffer springs while maintaining some comfort - perhaps 600/900. My wife couldn't tell the difference from OEM.

This is my first experience with after market suspension, and I'm having trouble identifying the differences resulting from the additional compression from the stiffer springs vs. the rebound from the dampers. I've played with various damper settings, but I think I need to wait for the track to work on dialing it in. I think I'll start at 7 or 8 clicks from full soft and go from there.

I've heard various recommendations about dialing in the dampers and whether to add more rebound in the front or rear. I would love to hear your feedback re: setup.

I'll post more after my first track event.

10/25/2014 Edit: I'm adding my impressions after my first track weekend at Motorsport Ranch in Cresson, Texas (MSRC). This is a 1.7 mile course run in the clockwise configuration (usually runs CCW) with few long straights - top speed is around 110.

The single rebound adjustment has 18 clicks of rebound. I started with 12 clicks from full soft and increased to 16 clicks from full soft. I never felt like I had too much rebound, and I may go to 17 and even try 18 at TWS in November. Remember that I am running 450/800 spring rates which is a hybrid street/track setup. I tried to go both softer and firmer in the rear, but ended up with 16 clicks all around. My lap times continued to improve and I ran several 1:26:xx laps.

The most noticeable improvements was increased grip and confidence tracking out. I was able to get on the throttle much earlier in several critical turns that setup longer straights - especially coming out of Rattlesnake and the turn before Little Bend. I could be WOT prior to the apex of both of those turns. The suspension would soak up the bumps in the turns allowing more confidence staying on the throttle. I'm still having some trouble pushing in Rattlesnake - I plan to work more on turn in at TWS, but TWS doesn't have slower turns like MSR. Some of this could be my line as Sally and her M3 was catching me with a tighter line at Wagon Wheel. I would imagine running at the full 18 clicks of rebound at CoTA.

The spring rates still felt on the soft side and I found myself wishing for a compression adjustment or firmer spring rates. I may go to 600/900 spring rates, and again, I think these rates would still be fine for the street. I ran with Surlynkid and his wife, Sally, in their GT3 and e92 M3 - cool folks. They are upgrading to the MCS double-adjustable dampers with 700/1000 spring rates for Sally's mostly-track dedicated M3.

This is by far my favorite mod as my car slowly becomes more track-oriented. My only regret is not going with the double-adjustable setup - and stiffer spring rates. I would strongly recommend MCS dampers!

[beats]

Sweet setup. Looking forward to review after the track

[RickyBobby]

Nice setup.
No Bumpstops?

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

Nice setup.
No Bumpstops?

Uh yeah what the hell? You'll put your eye out kid.

[M3SQRD]

Nice setup - they're great on the street and track!

[admranger]

I hope they finished the install of the fronts by running the bottom nut up on the front strut to lock the adjusting nut in.

Yeah, you need to put the stock bumpstops in, though you could cut them down a smidge.

Get the Engineer in your Pocket handbook. It'll help you get though adjustments. Being single adjustables, you'll have to get creative with how you do things. Good thing the MCS units are very capable. You'll be loving the results on the track.

[1MOREMOD]

My fronts are one click stiffer I the front but that's e46 also.

[dbyrd]

Originally Posted by admranger

I hope they finished the install of the fronts by running the bottom nut up on the front strut to lock the adjusting nut in.

Yeah, you need to put the stock bumpstops in, though you could cut them down a smidge.

Get the Engineer in your Pocket handbook. It'll help you get though adjustments. Being single adjustables, you'll have to get creative with how you do things. Good thing the MCS units are very capable. You'll be loving the results on the track.

The fronts are locked tight.

No bumpstops! Do I really need these with this setup?

Thanks Folks

[Richbot]

Originally Posted by dbyrd

The fronts are locked tight.

No bumpstops! Do I really need these with this setup?

Thanks Folks

Yes you need bumpstops. Right now in a big hit you are either relying on coil bind or bottoming out the damper both of which will break stuff, including the damper. Call lex and ask him if you don't believe us

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by Richbot

Yes you need bumpstops. Right now in a big hit you are either relying on coil bind or bottoming out the damper both of which will break stuff, including the damper. Call lex and ask him if you don't believe us

You'll also hammer the sheet metal that the damper is mounted to.

As far as adjustments, I've found that stiffer is not always faster and softer isn't always more comfortable. I like my TCKs full stiff for the street, otherwise I get bounced out of the car over bumps. Especially speed bumps.

[dbyrd]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

You'll also hammer the sheet metal that the damper is mounted to.

As far as adjustments, I've found that stiffer is not always faster and softer isn't always more comfortable. I like my TCKs full stiff for the street, otherwise I get bounced out of the car over bumps. Especially speed bumps.

I'll call Vorshlag and Lex tomorrow. I'll need them in both front and back, correct?

Thanks, guys!

[bigjae1976]

Don't remember the rears having a bump stop. I believe the design of the rear springs will limit travel. So the coil bind is your "bump stop".

[dbyrd]

Can anyone confirm whether bumpstops are required with this setup in both front and rear?

[dbyrd]

Originally Posted by dbyrd

Can anyone confirm whether bumpstops are required with this setup in both front and rear?

Both Lex with MCS and Jason with Vorshlag indicate that this setup is not intended for bumpstops.

I appreciate you guys looking out, though.

[bigjae1976]

Originally Posted by dbyrd

Both Lex with MCS and Jason with Vorshlag indicate that this setup is not intended for bumpstops.

I appreciate you guys looking out, though.

Do they have an internal bumpstop like the Bilstein coilovers?

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by dbyrd

Both Lex with MCS and Jason with Vorshlag indicate that this setup is not intended for bumpstops.

I appreciate you guys looking out, though.

Correct. No bumpstops needed on the MCS 1WNR dampers.

[Richbot]

Correction after taking to MCS about this myself: no bumpstop needed to protect the damper. However depending on how much travel the spring and ride height and tire setup allow you may still want them. A bumpstop is a much better way to tune the suspension than relying on coil bind and or tire hitting the body in big hits. Coil bind especially causes an extremely abrupt transition from sprung to rigid and an instantaneous loss of traction at that tire when the coils touch and you suddenly have an effectively infinite spring rate. Bumpstops are there to ease that transition from aprung to "out of travel" and give you a better chance of keeping the tire in contact with the road. Plus a damper is much better able to damp the release of tension from a bumpstop than what amounts to banging two pieces of metal together in a coil bind situation

So long story short if you aren't getting coil bind in big hits and you aren't hitting bodywork either you're golden. But don't assume neither of those two things are happening just because somebody told you it won't.

[chris82]

Nice setup. MCS is good stuff. They don't need bump stops probably for this reason:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...4&postcount=42

Basically "...reaching the end of the stroke with a high velocity will almost never happen due to the high compression forces"

My JRZs don't have them either.

[RickyBobby]

My old motons had no bumpstops and hard bottomed on the front sheet metal and rear gas filler hose big time. I understand where they are coming from, but chose to install bumpstops to protect my fenders. This was only an issue with r-comps on compression turns and the car handled fine with them in place. Bump stops are good insurance for a street driven car IMO.

[GTB/ZR-1]

OP--I'm sure you'll like the track manners.

I just pulled a trigger on a set, along w/ GC camber plates from a M3Post member. I had this setup on my turbo FR-S & really, really liked them.

Shakedown (hopefully) @ Sebring next weekend...

[dbyrd]

Unfortunately, my first planned track day was cancelled due to repaving so I'm going to do my first autoX tomorrow. I'm not sure what to expect - I don't think I'll get out of second gear. My next track weekend to dial in the dampers is October 11-12 at MSRC then in November at TWS - I've never run clockwise there so it should be fun.

I'll report back tomorrow if I have any feedback. If not, it'll be another two weeks. Just cooling off enough to enjoy the tracks down here in Texas!

BTW, I've had no issues with bottoming out.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by RickyBobby

My old motons had no bumpstops and hard bottomed on the front sheet metal and rear gas filler hose big time. I understand where they are coming from, but chose to install bumpstops to protect my fenders. This was only an issue with r-comps on compression turns and the car handled fine with them in place. Bump stops are good insurance for a street driven car IMO.

I had the Moton SS2s. Used kit springs and 600/850 lbf/in springs. The SS2 damper body is extremely short and allows more travel than stock, even when lowered. I ran my car with a ~0.75-1" drop in ride height with 18x9.5"et22 front wheels with 265 tires and had zero body-contact issues with kit springs.

The MCS damper bodies are longer than the SS2 damper bodies. The only way you'd make contact with the body is if you are running an extremely low ride height with street-biased spring rates.

I'm not against bump stops but use them only if they are absolutely necessary. On MCS dampers I might use them if I was running an extremely low ride height, wide r-comp tires and 'soft' spring rates.