E9x M3 vs. E46 M3 Driving Experience (2021 Edition)

[Headhunter.M3]

Z4m coupe or e46??

Owned a few e92s and love them all but I have never driven an e46.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Headhunter.M3

Z4m coupe or e46??

Owned a few e92s and love them all but I have never driven an e46.

I went with a Z4M Roadster over an E46 M3 when I had the chance. No regrets, the Z4M platform feels completely different than the usual M3 recipe IMHO. Just depends what you're looking for.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Headhunter.M3

Z4m coupe or e46??

Owned a few e92s and love them all but I have never driven an e46.

I’d go M3 coupe over Z4M coupe, but I’d go Z4M vert over M3 vert.

[kyrix1st]

Gotta be honest, I always liked the E46 looks... just liked the E36 more. Subframe issue did scare me though, went straight to E92 and haven't looked back.
I might get one as a track toy though because there is so much aftermarket support compared to any other gen of M3s, and subsequently at a reasonable price.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

Gotta be honest, I always liked the E46 looks... just liked the E36 more. Subframe issue did scare me though, went straight to E92 and haven't looked back.
I might get one as a track toy though because there is so much aftermarket support compared to any other gen of M3s, and subsequently at a reasonable price.

Just deal with the subframe before it fails, and it's cheap/easy. The horror stories are from those that wait for failure to do anything about it.

[Obioban]

Timely:

[ol doc gully]

I think the attached chart pretty well summarizes the poor bruised rotten dead horse in here.

The E9X has maybe an extra party trick where it has a duality where its personality seems to split and go even closer to E39 M5 when driven around town, and even more towards E46 M3 when on track/driven at limit.

[Obioban]

[ol doc gully]

^ Interesting. Of course people will have millions of quibbles, but to use reliability as the main reason against the E9X and not count it at all with respect to E46 is kinda backwards. I suspect the result would have been the same even if he had though, realistically.

[wyatth]

Opinions are like assholes! I don't mind Doug but he's a pretty superficial reviewer without any particular focus, so probably not a topic I'd defer to him on.
Didn't Jason Cammisa just put out a video that he thinks the E36 is the best M3 generation?

* Yup:

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by wyatth

Opinions are like assholes! I don't mind Doug but he's a pretty superficial reviewer without any particular focus, so probably not a topic I'd defer to him on.
Didn't Jason Cammisa just put out a video that he thinks the E36 is the best M3 generation?

* Yup:

… did you watch it? That’s not what he said in that video— he said that the US e36 M3 is better than the euro e36 M3.

In his G8X M3 video last month, and multiple podcasts, he said the e46 M3 was the best M3.

[wyatth]

Hm, I did, and it starts off by saying the E36 is the winning formula, and at 10:00 says the E46 doesn't have the same balance with its extra heft. The title is "The US E36 is the M3 to have" and not, "the US E36 M3 is the E36 M3 to have." But whatever. I haven't heard his podcasts or watched the G8x video.

[kyrix1st]

I'm just gonna throw this out. There are some US M3s imported to Japan, but NOBODY buys them over a Euro M3, be it a 3.0 (286ps) or a 3.2 (321ps).
End of the story.

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I'm just gonna throw this out. There are some US M3s imported to Japan, but NOBODY buys them over a Euro M3, be it a 3.0 (286ps) or a 3.2 (321ps).
End of the story.

Soooo....

why were they imported? That's a lot of expense to bring it in.

I owned an S52 e36 M3 and s50b32 e36 M3. The S52 car really only annoyed me on the highway, because it had too many RPMs at a steady 100mph cruise... but that was more because S52s came with 5 speeds vs 6 speeds on the S50B32 cars.

On back roads, it was kind of better-- like the e36 itself, the limits were lower, so you could really push it hard. That's much of the joy of the e36 to me-- being able to actually push it on the street. Low limits, but predictable and natural handling and feedback.

S50B32 version just felt like a worse e46 M3, with nothing really gained in exchange (exception: throttle pedal feel).

[14_deltaM3]

I’ve sampled both an s50b30 and s50b32 (I owned the b30), and would choose the 3.0 every day over the 3.2. I never found the power difference materialized, it sounded less good than the 3.0 and was more finicky to maintain.

Having said that, for their history and sound alone I would choose them over the us engine, even though I know the performance difference was minimal.

[kyrix1st]

Very simple. Okinawa military base by the US army.
Japan is also the largest used car export/import market, so all kinds of cars flood in from everywhere.

Originally Posted by Obioban

Soooo....

why were they imported? That's a lot of expense to bring it in.

I owned an S52 e36 M3 and s50b32 e36 M3. The S52 car really only annoyed me on the highway, because it had too many RPMs at a steady 100mph cruise... but that was more because S52s came with 5 speeds vs 6 speeds on the S50B32 cars.

On back roads, it was kind of better-- like the e36 itself, the limits were lower, so you could really push it hard. That's much of the joy of the e36 to me-- being able to actually push it on the street. Low limits, but predictable and natural handling and feedback.

S50B32 version just felt like a worse e46 M3, with nothing really gained in exchange (exception: throttle pedal feel).

[kyrix1st]

This is only half true. S50B30 (non-GT) did not have dual oil pickup tubes so it would sometimes experience oil starvation in heavy lateral G circuits. S50B32 never had this issue because it is basically S54 gen 1 engine with all the track reliability covered bar the conrod bolts.

However, the 3.0 can be upgraded to GT dual pickups & oil pan for relatively low cost, and revs more freely due to shorter strokes & single vanos. So yes, the 3.0 with the right upgrades is generally a much sturdier engine than s50b32. It also made more power than advertised (crank horsepower dynoed at 295~300 ps, same as GT variants).

Originally Posted by 14_deltaM3

I’ve sampled both an s50b30 and s50b32 (I owned the b30), and would choose the 3.0 every day over the 3.2. I never found the power difference materialized, it sounded less good than the 3.0 and was more finicky to maintain.

Having said that, for their history and sound alone I would choose them over the us engine, even though I know the performance difference was minimal.

[14_deltaM3]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

This is only half true. S50B30 (non-GT) did not have dual oil pickup tubes so it would sometimes experience oil starvation in heavy lateral G circuits. S50B32 never had this issue because it is basically S54 gen 1 engine with all the track reliability covered bar the conrod bolts.

However, the 3.0 can be upgraded to GT dual pickups & oil pan for relatively low cost, and revs more freely due to shorter strokes & single vanos. So yes, the 3.0 with the right upgrades is generally a much sturdier engine than s50b32. It also made more power than advertised (crank horsepower dynoed at 295~300 ps, same as GT variants).

Yes, agree with this. It’s preferable if you end up wanting to upgrade the engine extensively.

If I end up not being able to get a 80s-90s Italian mid engine car, I would gladly settle for a perfectly maintained, late model s50b30 in white. Just love those cars.

[Longboarder]

People say the e46 CSL is the holy grail.

Have these people driven the e46 with the SMG trans? Wtf are they smoking? It made me want to vomit. Trans tune or not.

The e46 with the SMG is the not only the WORST M car ever made, it is arguably the worst car ever made by BMW. Wanting to vomit every time you drive the car is not said often. It's reserved only for the worst of the worst in automotive history.

Shame on them for even allowing such a horrible transmission in this car.

So bizarre that the SMG is so bad yet the next gens got the DCT which is so good. In fact even today IMHO on "feel" alone I think it's the best transmission ever made. Better than the PDK-S.

Discussion here should be limited to e46 6MT vs e9X 6MT.

[wyatth]

SMG is pretty bad overall, but okay when you're pushing it. It shifts fast and hard, but around town it's far from smooth and good. Pretty typical of that generation single clutch box, I think.
A 6MT swap would my first mod to a CSL. I wouldn't own an E46 M3 with SMG either. Fortunately an easy swap overall.

[TboneS54]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

blah blah blah

What a shit post smh

[Obioban]

Originally Posted by Longboarder

People say the e46 CSL is the holy grail.

Have these people driven the e46 with the SMG trans? Wtf are they smoking? It made me want to vomit. Trans tune or not.

The e46 with the SMG is the not only the WORST M car ever made, it is arguably the worst car ever made by BMW. Wanting to vomit every time you drive the car is not said often. It's reserved only for the worst of the worst in automotive history.

Shame on them for even allowing such a horrible transmission in this car.

So bizarre that the SMG is so bad yet the next gens got the DCT which is so good. In fact even today IMHO on "feel" alone I think it's the best transmission ever made. Better than the PDK-S.

Discussion here should be limited to e46 6MT vs e9X 6MT.

I'm no fan of any automatic, including SMG (currently in the process of converting my e60 M5 from SMG to 6MT, have converted several e46 M3s), but this post is insane. SMG is completely fine (good, even) on track and works on the street once you learn how to drive it. Of the single clutch systems (Ferrari, LFA, Aston), it's one of the best out there.

I don't like it because I don't like any automatic-- but if I had to take some sort of automatic, I'd take SMG over DCT, because it forces you to be more involved in driving (rev matching, lifting, etc).

... and the notion that it makes it the worst M car is just silly.