[MadBimmeRad]

Originally Posted by Patton250

As we get forced into EV by people who are convinced we are all dead if we don’t I am going to be thoroughly amused as I watch all these things run out of juice and pull off to the side of the road littering the highways. Also can you imagine these charging stations of which you had better get busy building them absolutely everywhere there is a gas station now but now instead of fueling up in less than five minutes there will be lines of people waiting to hook their cars up for at least 15 minutes to an hour. So you have some problems. You’ve got a lot of work to do. You have to build hundreds of thousands of charging stations all over Europe , North America and the other continents that are pushing this down the citizens throats. What kind of carbon footprint will that be? That’s a lot of building and construction. Then you’re going to have to hire gas using tow trucks to collect these vehicles as they run out of juice all over the place. This is going to be a total mess if it’s allowed to continue the way it is now.

Now if you would just allow capitalism to move it forward naturally then people can make choices whether they want these vehicles or not. Obviously you like them so you’ll buy one and I think that’s awesome. There are many others like you. If the market naturally starts to change to EV vehicles than the infrastructure will change to accommodate that. Let capitalism work. If this is forced upon us like it is right now it will be a nightmare and a calamity.

Lastly reading your comment you make it sound as if the whole world obviously wants these things and BMW and other slow auto manufactures changing over are making a mistake. I assure you sir you are in the minority on this but you do happen to have most governments on your side especially the European Union. So you feel confident that this is wanted by most people when it’s not. I realize a lot of the people on your side don’t care about that and are fully on board with forcing it on the people of the earth but I just don’t want you to be mistaken thinking you are in the majority. I would argue you’re not even close to the majority.

Meanwhile I’m proud of BMW for sticking with some ice options especially being in Europe with that type of government pressure on their throats. Good for you guys BMW. Stick to it.

hear hear

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by LOW4LYF

The new CSL is the old GTS...

Which was the old CSL before it was a GTS.

[vj123]

Originally Posted by KoenG

Glasgow:

In the latest news updates I hear that in Belgium (say Europe) only zero emission vehicles will be allowed as from 2027. For 2nd hand cars, this rule starts as from 2029. This implies that customers buying TODAY probably best choose a BEV when they would ever want to sell their vehicle in the future. The economical value of a non BEV will drop to zero very fast the coming few years.

When this law is amended the coming weeks or months, I wonder how fast the investments in ICE/PHEV will be cut.

I am not sure about Europe but at least in US, governments are known for unrealistic targets and when the target date approaches they would roll numbers back. I can understand 2027 target for new vehicles but 2029 for used vehicles is really aggressive. To adapt this change, basic infrastructure (charging) has to be updated and i am not sure if the whole of Europe is ready for that.

Originally Posted by Patton250

To me that was the most important part of the interview. It looks like BMW unlike Mercedes has some balls and is not backing down on ice. Maybe cooler heads will prevail in the next few years and we can stop this nonsense towards going all EV.

+1

I was not expecting ICE to be an option to any next gen M vehicles. Hope we see these kinda statements from other manufacturers as well.

[ChrisM4]

Given the enormous challenges of charging infrastructure and the grid itself hybrids would be a logical first step that could actually be achievable. Especially for anyone taking longer trips.

People do conveniently forgot the environmental impact of EVs. (Mining, production, end of life disposal, the fact it's displacing a gas powered car already on the road etc.)

I'm buying one more high performance car and keeping it for my kids. Not sure on which one yet but the upcoming M2, M4, new Z06, ZL1 Camaro, Cayman GTS 4.0 are all on the list of potential cars.

[J-RO]

The countries and companies that jump on the EV bandwagon will come to regret it one day.

[NightWriter]

Originally Posted by Patton250

It’s the highest selling M3 they’ve ever had and will continue to be so. So it appears someone made the right choice there.

What's your source for this? Obviously we all know about dealer prices/market adjustments and shortage of production allocations, but much of that is likely due to a low-volume car in its first year (pent-up demand) and, obviously, the broader supply chain issues worldwide. I believe BMW does not break down its sales figures by specific model (only series), so I'm curious whether there is any evidence that this is the best-selling M3/M4?

[Mako]

Originally Posted by ChrisM2

Given the enormous challenges of charging infrastructure and the grid itself hybrids would be a logical first step that could actually be achievable. Especially for anyone taking longer trips.

People do conveniently forgot the environmental impact of EVs. (Mining, production, end of life disposal, the fact it's displacing a gas powered car already on the road etc.)

I'm buying one more high performance car and keeping it for my kids. Not sure on which one yet but the upcoming M2, M4, new Z06, ZL1 Camaro, Cayman GTS 4.0 are all on the list of potential cars.

You sound like me. I want to get a Z06, GTS 4.0, or lotus emira (Something mid engine, probably one of the NA ones) my problem now is they all seem really tough to buy at msrp and without a 2 year waiting list.

My other problem is figuring out what everyday car to go with it. Buy out my X3M lease, get a i4 m50, or something like a Jeep Wrangler or countryman jcw. Insane the amount of choices we have now

[cwhands]

Originally Posted by Patton250

Brother come on. How many Americans would really want a station wagon Brady Bunch mobile sports car??

I was very clearly kidding when I wrote that. We knew it wasn't coming to the US market regardless.

One could argue the M SUVs are just as "Brady Bunch."

[jp1984]

Originally Posted by J-RO

The countries and companies that jump on the EV bandwagon will come to regret it one day.

I really doubt it, at least not the finite way you put it. They are just being pushed by gov't.

However, as a gear head, I wish I had your staunch enthusiasm. Trust me, all my "fun" cars will always be ICE, I am just making peace with the 20 year off future, where everything is quicker than a Tesla Plaid, but drives itself and is connected to the other cars on the road so is only going 65 anyways.

I will use these self driving trips to sleep!

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by KoenG

Glasgow:
In the latest news updates I hear that in Belgium (say Europe) only zero emission vehicles will be allowed as from 2027. For 2nd hand cars, this rule starts as from 2029. This implies that customers buying TODAY probably best choose a BEV when they would ever want to sell their vehicle in the future. The economical value of a non BEV will drop to zero very fast the coming few years.
When this law is amended the coming weeks or months, I wonder how fast the investments in ICE/PHEV will be cut.

I see your point and don't want to involve politics in this thread. Just pointing out that you are referring to very recent statements made by the Flemish Minister of Transport disclosing her future plans for future mobility in the Flemish region (to be distinguished from other Belgian regions). Objective fact: the referenced plans have not yet materialized/enacted into Flemish legislation as we speak (see here and here). Time will tell.

About vehicle emission standards for exhaust emissions of new vehicles sold in the European Union and EEA member states and the UK: see for example here.

For sure we will see cities further restricting access of ICE vehicles (either a ban or expensive access tax of vehicles exceeding set emissions levels). That's also a factor to take into account when buying a new or second hand car.

The German companies Porsche and Siemens Energy will start producing "eFuels" in 2022 (hydrogen-based fuel). Also Exxon Mobil is involved in the project. Major benefit: you can pump it into a standard gasoline-powered vehicle without needing to make any adjustments to the engine (see here, here and here).

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Tallest

BMW is widely seen in investment community as laggard in EV game. This is clear as they are very confused and have very limited offering and losing a lot to Daimler and VW.

I sampled some EVs that drove very well. And - they will only get better, infrastructure will only get better. BMW needs to push M into EV future and commit to it properly. THey cannot, and this is gonna hurt them.

IX and i4 is not it... the design is an issue. EVs need to look sleek and beautiful as their platform allows it.. and Ix and I4 is not pretty. :S

That sounds more like your opinion. Everyone keeps saying BMW is behind VW/Audi and Mercedes but I fail to see how and where. Last I checked, BMW will be the first to release an EV that will be priced for the masses. What does Audi have? An etron GT with a $100,000 price tag. What does Mercedes have? An EQS that will likely be priced more than a ICE-powered S Class.

It seems you and many others are caught up in the speculation of future products, the marketing and spectacle of what has been released. I'm not saying BMW is ahead, but they're definitely not behind. I'm far more interested in the i4 and what that could do for the future of EV in this segment than the etron GT and EQS which is meant more for the wealthy rather than the masses.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by cwhands

I was very clearly kidding when I wrote that. We knew it wasn't coming to the US market regardless.

One could argue the M SUVs are just as "Brady Bunch."

Sorry about that but I have seen people here serious about wanting the station wagon. I totally disagree with you on the SUVs though. That’s one of the most popular vehicles in the United States. I suppose you could argue that an SUV is Brady Bunch but you would be in the extreme extreme minority on that one. At least in America.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by KoenG

You said three years back that a unique M-car would not necessarly had to be a sportscar. Based on our info wrt the PHEV, we would bet on a crossover. Is this also the first unique M car since the M1? (strange question isn't it?)
To be clear, there will be a unique M car.

Original text:
Zurück auf die Straße: Bei unserem ersten Interview vor drei Jahren sagten Sie, dass ein eigenständiges M-Modell nicht zwangsläufig ein Sportwagen sein muss. Das angesprochene Konzept mit PHEV geht nach unseren Informationen in die Crossover-Richtung. Ist das also das erste eigenständige M-Modell seit dem M1?
Nun, es wird auf jeden Fall wieder ein eigenständiges M-Modell geben.

That's maybe a reference to 'Projekt Katharina' (named after a church in Garching - home of BMW HQ).

Some Über M car rumored to feature approx. 1 megawatt of raw power (1000kW = 1360ps = 1341hp).

Originally Posted by Artemis

FWIW, for example here.

Gary C.J. Schweikert - 15 April 2021

Her name is Katharina, and right now she is everyone’s darling at the Bavarian Motor Works. Her address is Daimlerstrasse 19 in Garching-Hochbrück, epicentre of the go-faster BMW M division. But Katharina also has second homes at the Nürburgring and in Miramas, where BMW keeps its biggest proving ground. Kathy – if you don’t mind – has been spotted several times on public roads recently, where her swirly camouflage attracted the attention of spy photographers.
Because Katharina is not a person but a project. A project that at a glance looks like the BMW M2 CS. Except from behind, where that car’s four trademark exhaust pipes are conspicuous by their absence. Close your eyes, listen, and another point of difference becomes clear – Katharina’s high-pitched soundtrack is a far cry from the growling, multi-cylinder racket with which M cars are synonymous. This M2 sounds like absolutely nothing else, which is perfectly okay, because there is no other car like it.
Next year, M division will celebrate its 50th anniversary. Such an occasion warrants a pretty special birthday present. You guessed it: the car expected to roll out of the cake and blow out the candles with plenty of brouhaha is Project Katharina – a very special electric M2.
At this point in time it’s based on the M2 CS. But come 2022 the new rear-wheel-drive G42 2-series will make a much better fit, even though an M version of that car won’t surface before 2023. In the unlikely scenario of the M development team having to step back from the 2-series, the monstrous DNA of Katharina the Great could be transferred easily, and at short notice, to the M3 or M4.
And what a monster this is! One megawatt of raw power – that’s 1000kW, or 1321bhp. Think about that for a moment. This awesome kraftwerk consists of four electric motors, one per wheel. Together they offer a radically advanced level of torque vectoring hitherto available only to the cars you see in cartoons. This constantly variable, four-figure, on-demand punch is supported by the most extreme battery technology conceived to date at the group’s future- energy campus on the outskirts of Munich.
Although this is all still top-secret stuff, reliable sources claim Katharina has already lapped the Nordschleife in under seven minutes, besting the hardly underpowered M8 Competition by more than 40 seconds and putting the electric M2 in Porsche Taycan Turbo S territory. We don’t yet know how many laps the future uber-BMW can run before being black-flagged by excessive tyre wear, cooling issues or a fast-receding state of charge. But in a way that’s immaterial, because the key mission of this advanced M2 is to confirm that emissions-free high performance and M-level handling can go hand in hand.
Acceleration from a standing start is expected to split the 2.0 to 2.5sec bracket. At least as impressive is the brutal throttle response at speed, when wheelspin can be induced in the dry even above 75mph, sources say. So far, Katharina is a work in progress and not yet an approved programme. But according to information gathered from an English powertrain specialist involved in the R&D work, a run of stripped-out and relatively ascetic (no rear seats; carbonfibre panels and roof; hollow-spoke mag wheels; thin-walled glass) limited-edition specials is very much on the cards. Watch this space. And start saving.
This spring, BMW showed the undisguised production i4 – a proper electric BMW with batteries in its belly and enough poke to please impatient speed junkies. Marketing pulled the launch forward three months to out-click the competition and to leave enough ramp-up room for the iX SUV, which debuts only three months later in November.
But where the i4 gets really exciting is when you add the letter M and some lessons from Katharina and find yourself with the 600bhp i4M, complete with a big, fat 120kWh battery. This car is in the works, and its job will be to democratise some of the tech that promises to make that battery-electric hyper-M2 a gamechanger.
Fundamental to the electrification of M will be the hardware at its disposal. BMW’s high-voltage energy system, known as HEAT, comes in three basic sizes. On top of this volume-biased threesome, insiders expect two high-performance variations masterminded by the M division and accordingly labelled ML and MXL.
We’re talking 125kWh-plus batteries here, but what matters even more is the different cell chemistry, which promises an increased number of fast-charging and discharge cycles, a balanced mix of regeneration, performance and coasting sequences, intelligent cooling management and advanced performance electronics. The voltage is expected to increase from 400 to 800 volts (increasing voltage reduces resistance losses, while also reducing weight – thanks to slimmer, lighter cabling – and accelerating charging times) and BMW is even toying with 1200 volts. But at this level the regulators still require impracticalities like documented grounding after every charge…
But if the great Pirelli adverts of the past have taught us one thing, it’s that power is nothing without control. And it’s in this key area – the melding of chassis set-up, stability-control systems and power electronics into a cohesive driving experience – that BMW can point to the i3 and i8 and argue they were not a waste of time. Both drove brilliantly, with the i3 particularly impressive given its unlikely shape and footprint.
And a great deal of time and money has gone into R&D since. Look at the i3S, which debuted a more intelligent eDrive powertrain in which, rather than being tamed by a remote stability-control system, the car’s punchy output was regulated at source, within the drive unit itself, by systems able to respond 50 times faster than a conventional set-up. Then there’s the new hardware, BMW’s fifth-generation eDrive, which arrived on the iX3 and will give the i4 the best possible start in life. If the iX3 is a fairly unremarkable electric SUV on paper, on the road – most unexpectedly – it drives with a poise and a precision that calls to mind the best of BMW’s engine-powered SUVs. And if Frank Weber and his team can pull off something of an Ultimate Driving Machine with that unpromising set of components, imagine what it can achieve with the i4M, based as it will be on the same CLAR platform that the new M3/M4, with a few choice modifications, is putting to such good use right now.
Between now and 2025, all new electric BMWs will be based on advanced versions of the current FAAR and CLAR architectures. One of the last volume models hatched on this platform is the next 5-series, due in late 2023. So, what of that electric M5 we keep hearing so much about? Although an electric i5 is definitely in the offing (see box, below), packaging constraints and the absence of radically more capable batteries practically rule out the projected i5M, which has been pushed back. Instead there is talk of an M5 Performance model sharing its 750bhp power-hybrid drivetrain with project Rockstar, the X8 M hyper-SUV which is said to boast two e-motors in addition to its awesome V8.
One rung below, insiders claim that the first BMW to benefit from the new N-Car matrix – the 2025 platform that’s prompted Oliver Zipse’s Neue Klasse analogy – is the next 3-series, due in 2025. And there’s a certain symmetry to BMW’s critical next phase being spearheaded by the current machine that most closely resembles those of the first Neue Klasse.

Recalling this picture featuring Markus Flasch inside the BMW M vaults, possibly looking at the BMW ///M 3.0CSe (due to be launched on May 1, 2022):

Originally Posted by Artemis

Reloaded.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by J-RO

The countries and companies that jump on the EV bandwagon will come to regret it one day.

No they won't.

[overfreeze]

Originally Posted by Patton250

It’s the highest selling M3 they’ve ever had and will continue to be so. So it appears someone made the right choice there.

Source?

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by NightWriter

What's your source for this? Obviously we all know about dealer prices/market adjustments and shortage of production allocations, but much of that is likely due to a low-volume car in its first year (pent-up demand) and, obviously, the broader supply chain issues worldwide. I believe BMW does not break down its sales figures by specific model (only series), so I'm curious whether there is any evidence that this is the best-selling M3/M4?

Originally Posted by overfreeze

Source?

This is highly aggravating to you guys isn’t it? Do your own research. Why don’t you just call your dealer and ask them? That could be a start. The three dealerships I speak to say they have never had such interest in previous M3‘s like they have now. Initial sales before the slow down in parts was much higher than previous generations. Look it up on BMW‘s website. Once again ask your dealership. I suspect that overtime you will get over it. If not there’s always pills and whiskey. Perhaps some counseling.

I’m only joking around gentlemen don’t get too uptight about it. But I was serious about looking it up yourselves. If you can’t find it then I’ll help you.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by KoenG

2. What was the negative experience you'd rather not had?
Nothing shocking really. When you are this intense with social media like we are, you'll get confronted with recurrent nagging comments. That's something you should be able to deal with.

Originally Posted by roastbeef

He didn't like the feedback on the grille on Instagram. lol

Nah, MF was probably referring to the recurring criticism that the recent BMW M Instagram videos were posted in portrait/vertical mode instead of landscape/horizontal mode.

[nerdogray]

As far as I'm concerned, once EV infects the line, it's no longer an M car. I'll just get a damn Prius and leave those halcyon days behind.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

That sounds more like your opinion. Everyone keeps saying BMW is behind VW/Audi and Mercedes but I fail to see how and where. Last I checked, BMW will be the first to release an EV that will be priced for the masses. What does Audi have? An etron GT with a $100,000 price tag. What does Mercedes have? An EQS that will likely be priced more than a ICE-powered S Class.

It seems you and many others are caught up in the speculation of future products, the marketing and spectacle of what has been released. I'm not saying BMW is ahead, but they're definitely not behind. I'm far more interested in the i4 and what that could do for the future of EV in this segment than the etron GT and EQS which is meant more for the wealthy rather than the masses.

I believe Audi will actually be first. They have the Q4 E-Tron SUV and Sportback which will start in the $40's coming to the states very soon.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

I believe Audi will actually be first. They have the Q4 E-Tron SUV and Sportback which will start in the $40's coming to the states very soon.

Even if that's the case, everyone here saying BMW is behind act like Audi and a Mercedes is already one entire lineup ahead of BMW.

The EV game in the premium/luxury segment is just beginning.

[AHall]

Originally Posted by KoenG

Glasgow:

In the latest news updates I hear that in Belgium (say Europe) only zero emission vehicles will be allowed as from 2027. For 2nd hand cars, this rule starts as from 2029. This implies that customers buying TODAY probably best choose a BEV when they would ever want to sell their vehicle in the future. The economical value of a non BEV will drop to zero very fast the coming few years.

When this law is amended the coming weeks or months, I wonder how fast the investments in ICE/PHEV will be cut.

So is this saying in the EU you will not be able to sell a ICE car in or after 2029? That is pretty drastic. It is one thing to no longer manufacture ICE driven cars but another to not allow their sale.

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by ChrisM2

Given the enormous challenges of charging infrastructure and the grid itself hybrids would be a logical first step that could actually be achievable. Especially for anyone taking longer trips.

People do conveniently forgot the environmental impact of EVs. (Mining, production, end of life disposal, the fact it's displacing a gas powered car already on the road etc.)

I'm buying one more high performance car and keeping it for my kids. Not sure on which one yet but the upcoming M2, M4, new Z06, ZL1 Camaro, Cayman GTS 4.0 are all on the list of potential cars.

Unfortunately, manufacturers don't make enough profit on hybrids. That's why there are so few offerings. It is a very logical stop gap between ICE and EV transition, but it doesn't bring in the big bucks.