[nalnass]

Originally Posted by TractionControlDelete

Not only that though… while the world is losing their minds over EVs, Toyota casually rolled out the the 86, the GR Supra, and the GR Yaris in relatively quick succession. And I’ve read that they’re considering the MR2 as well. It’s really quite impressive when you consider that they did that while making the new Prius car of the year again. A lot of other manufacturers should take notes.

Why should they take notes on that piece of shit gr86 “sports” car? That keeps blowing up if you track it? And why are you even mentioning a gr Yaris in this forum?

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by Westside Guy

Look how successful Toyota has been staying with their hybrids and not going full speed into an EV lineup.

IMHO, EV’s have a long way to go before the majority of car buyers will make this change.

Internal combustion engines will be here for a while!

ICE-equipped vehicles will be here for a lot longer than even the most optimistic EV transition forecast may suggest. Until used EV market is as liquid as ICE vehicles market (liquid = profitable), the transition will be much slower.

Very insightful article:

https://fortune.com/2023/12/22/no-on...-tesla-bmw-vw/

Used EVs in the current form represent an "inventory risk" because the used EV market isn't liquid enough.

'Part of the problem is that the industry is handling secondhand EVs for the first time. While combustion-engine cars can be quickly valued via their age and mileage, there are no tests in widespread use that determine the quality of a battery, Weddigen von Knapp said. The battery represents around 30% of an EV’s value, a share that is expected to decline in the coming years, according to BloombergNEF."

[Tpriest7893]

Originally Posted by Klaytoven

Thank god. I cant afford an m car YET. I sure don’t want an electric bmw that isnt manual when the time does come😅

Hahaha right! I can’t afford an M yet but the electric cars are the same damm price lol

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Th3DarkSide

Surprise Surprise. I’ve been saying and laughing at this nonsense for years. It’s all bullshit pipe dreams. People can’t be forced to buy a product they don’t want especially one as expensive as an automobile. Add to that poor infrastructure and the farce that EVs are “cleaner” for the environment and blamo we will see all kinds of walked back EU and other nonsense regulations/bans. This is what happens when morons in government think they know better.

Well EVs are cleaner for the environment. That's a given but the problem is that the West is trying to preserve a large base of manufacturing jobs (ie voters) and that makes EV's artificially more expensive than they otherwise would be. Demand suffers.

There are other issues as well such as repairability by third parties. The ecosystem hasn't yet developed so a lot of EV's end up being written off.

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by spuntyb

hybrids are the best way forward imho, but im glad they’re looking ahead with their EV offerings at least. I don’t see any reason for them to abandon the ice architecture rn, they’re doing v well overall…

their design language is a different story tho!

There must be a sunset date or EVs never gain enough penetration to provide a meaningful reduction in GHG emissions. Humans operate on relatively short time preferences. It's a problem because the right decision is only taken once all the poor decisions have been exhausted.

[antzcrashing]

So youre saying there’s a chance

[odiesback]

All I can say is there’s a God and best thing I have heard from BMW in a long while!

[ghaffari46]

I’m in the minority in the petrol head crowd regarding EVs. I daily my manual m2 and enjoy every mile driving that tiny beast, I have a tesla 3 which is in no means fancy or even well built, but it delivers phenomenal performance and convenience.
The scary one (for the future of ICE car) is a car like ix, which I just received it last week. It is extremely well built, fast, comfortable and very easy to live with. If you have 220 outlet in your garage, there is no real reason not getting ix installed of a x5.
For most of EV users “time spent charging” is overhyped, unless you travel couple of hundred miles a day. for most of us who drive less than 100 miles a day and travel 300-400 miles on weekends, and if you’re able to charge your car at home, the time you spend at charging stations will not be more than your time spent in gas stations for your ICE car.
Most of people who are absolutely against EVs have not driven or live with one. just go a head and rent a tesla for a week.
I watched a documentary on DW tv about German automakers really didn’t want to dive to the EV sector, and if there was no tesla in the market, probably none of the Germans would have made a single EVs.
But at the end, market( especially emerging market like china), policies and regulations and profitability ( which is is much higher with EVs) will talk.
If not all, but in the next 10-15 years most of cars on the roads will be EVs.
It’s a one way road.

[AP]

The issue I can see at least in the U.K. is that although you will still be “allowed” to drive a ICE in the coming years, they will prove you off the road. This is already happening with clean air schemes where older cars have to pay a daily charge to enter a city although there is some backlash about this in some locations.
Even parking you can be charged more for a ICE.
EVs are flawed and while they can work very well for some , the important thing is that they don’t work for everyone and forcing everyone down this path is not right
whilst EVs can potentially be greener in some circumstances, it’s certainly not a black and white argument

I can manufacturers continuing to make IVE as not all markets are committed to this net zero idea. This decision seems to have been made without any agreement by the public that I’m aware of

There an argument that keeping your car longer is better than all the effort that goes into a new car being built

It’s certainly going to be interesting the next few years. There seems to be some issues occurring with EVs , some of this may be being exaggerated in the press but they include cars catching fire, cars being written off with small amounts of damage and insurance rates being high.

Me personally I recently bought a g30 m550 and I really see this as the last car I will own, there is nothing new that appeals and I just want to carry on using this mainly for fun.

[ChrisM4]

Hybrid is really the only solution, to think otherwise is delusional.

Toyota’s CEO had it figured out. Hybrids reduce emissions, get rid of the reliance on charging infrastructure and actually have more postive environmental impact:

“Toyota can produce eight 40-mile plug-in hybrids for every one 320-mile battery electric vehicle and save up to eight times the carbon emitted into the atmosphere”

Also:

• Grid infrastructure and charging solutions are decades away from being ready
• There is not enough lithium and nickel supply globally to meet even 60% of the forecasted number of EV’s required under the 2035 mandate and that mining also has horrendous environmental impact.
• There is strategic and geopolitical risk of pouring additional billions of GDP into rival nation states while negatively impacting your own economies.
• The consumer demand isn’t there, governments change (and will likely soon), regulations change. These automakers are going to be writing down billions in losses with this rapid push to EVs.

Haven’t even gone into the challenges with insurance after accidents, massive depreciation of EVs themselves.

It’s one of the biggest boondoggles of our lifetime.

[georgebmwM3]

Just read an article in this month’s German magazine “AutoMotor Sport” that HVO100 is coming to Germany. HVO is hydrated vegetable oil and technically all diesel’s can run on this. It’s 90-100% CO2 free, it’s clear and odorless and costs only 5-20 euro cents more. Diesel in Germany is usually 10-30 euro cents cheaper than gasoline and diesel cars average 35-50 mpg. Currently diesel is €1.59-1.65/Ltr. BMW and other German vehicle manufacturers have gone to the EU regarding the use of “biofuels” like HVO, in order to modify standards and push forward passed 2035 the manufacturing of ICE’s. It seems likely, as others suspect, that the 2035 target will be slipped.
Here is what I drive on the autobahn with 650Nm torque with a 0-62 at 5.4 seconds, 3 liter turbo xDrive. It’s so much fun to drive. Notice Alps in background of picture.

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

I'd give the EU a big FU and produce the first BMW twin engine V8 Supercar.

This. Oh yes. 🙌🏻

[JustChris]

Originally Posted by carseatsm5

They don’t have much of a choice unless California and others walk back the 2035 ban.

It will keep getting pushed back like the recent U.K. 5 year push back.
I do have an EV but only because it’s a great tax incentive here etc

[HotRodM4]

This is ridiculous. Leave your microwaves in the kitchen.

[bandersen]

Originally Posted by Ugly Kar

They better not. Audi is certainly realizing not everyone wants an EV.
https://www.carscoops.com/2023/12/au...n-near-future/

I hope Audi makes it - I was an owner and loved my manual S4. And healthy competition btwn brands benefits all of us here! But, ICE for me for many more years….

[Th3DarkSide]

Originally Posted by F32Fleet

Well EVs are cleaner for the environment. That's a given but the problem is that the West is trying to preserve a large base of manufacturing jobs (ie voters) and that makes EV's artificially more expensive than they otherwise would be. Demand suffers.

There are other issues as well such as repairability by third parties. The ecosystem hasn't yet developed so a lot of EV's end up being written off.

It’s a given? Haha. Sure

The production of the batteries is atrocious for the environment. Not a given at all.

[bigjae1976]

EVs will never see mass adoption and ICE’s are here to stay.

It’s the economics of hydrocarbons and food. There’s no way you can grow enough fuel, at least for the foreseeable future.

Unless everyone is willing to pay a lot more for things like composites, synthetic fabrics, plastics, roof shingles, nice asphalt roads, cleaning products, medicines…fossil fuels are here to stay. You can’t make those things without producing distillates (jet and diesel) and gasoline.

Who wants to back to cotton tightie whities?

[Th3DarkSide]

Originally Posted by bigjae1976

EVs will never see mass adoption and ICE’s are here to stay.

It’s the economics of hydrocarbons and food. There’s no way you can grow enough fuel, at least for the foreseeable future.

Unless everyone is willing to pay a lot more for things like composites, synthetic fabrics, plastics, roof shingles, nice asphalt roads, cleaning products, medicines…fossil fuels are here to stay. You can’t make those things without producing distillates (jet and diesel) and gasoline.

Who wants to back to cotton tightie whities?

What’s wrong with tighty whities? 😂

[Nettles]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

So youre saying there’s a chance

One in a million Lloyd

[F32Fleet]

Originally Posted by Th3DarkSide

It’s a given? Haha. Sure

The production of the batteries is atrocious for the environment. Not a given at all.

Yes. Lifecycle emissions of an EV are significantly less than those of ICE.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by apez

I don't get the hate for EVs, while I do understand wanting to preserve some amount of ICE cars.

Let the commuter appliance cars and commercial transit be EVs. Keep ICE for special cars and limit fuel global consumption and pollution. Turn 3/4th of gas stations into charging stations. If every Toyota Rav 4 and Subaru Crosstreck were suddenly EVs it would have no effect on me.

I will never understand why anyone would be upset that someone else is buying EVs.

Most of us don't hate EVs, we just hate them being forced down everybody's throat as the end all be all solution to climate change. When in reality it's all about politics and corporate greenwashing to sell another product.

EVs are great, but let's not act like banning every last fun ICE car is going to save the planet.

[domino_z]

Originally Posted by allinon72

Big gubment threw global automakers a lifeline and sold them on a disposable car platform that had higher margins, less warranty claims and substantially more long term profitability based on the "phone" model of getting a new one every few years. Most of them jumped at the chance, in lockstep, with zero customer data, very little infrastructure, and very little applicable technology to support such a move. And here we are, with most of them eating crow because the demand does not even come close to supporting EVs on a mass scale. BMW and anyone else that was foolish enough to buy into EVs deserves everything coming to them and if their boards had any shred of credibility, we should be seeing a wave of CEO removals because of it.

That is all true and in a free market you are spot on

However with big top down gov authoritarian bans on ice, there is no free market, ppl will be forced into ev’s through lack of choice and sweeping taxation

Sure you may live in a country that doesn’t introduce the same ice bans or holds out a little bit longer than eu, but it wont matter because these manufacturers won’t be building you anything worth buying

Euro6 comes into play in 25, from that point on you won’t see any new ice platforms being developed, certainly not anything sports car based, at best you’ll get small engine hybrids as a short term stop gap