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      10-15-2014, 08:21 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by douglee25
I disagree. Bearings do not 'wear' per say unless contaminants are running through them. They are usually not a consumable, contrary to what this engine seems to prescribe.

I don't care what anyone says, but just because people 'think' the bearings look 'ok' to your eye, doesn't mean that's what they are supposed to look like.

I've broken open engines with 300+k miles and they have zero wear. ZERO!

Doug
This.

Blows my mind how many people talk so nonchalantly about replacing rod bearings on this forum, like they are changing their worn clutch. I don't care how "high revving" or "high performance" of a motor this is considered. Bearings are not a "consumable" item. We are taking about BMW's for Gods sake. This is something I would expect out of my beloved Ford Motor Company
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      10-15-2014, 08:37 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Petros View Post
No it's not. Bearings are supposed to last indefinitely. They're supposed to ride over a layer of oil and not contact the crank. They're designed to wear in case something wrong happens and you get metal to metal contact, so that the bearings take the beating and spare the more expensive crankshaft. But they're not like brake pads or clutch discs. They're not expected to wear and require replacement under normal circumstances.
I'm not saying they're like brake pads. But yes they will exhibit some wear. A quick internet search will show you what a typical crank bearing should look like.
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      10-16-2014, 12:01 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by SinfulM3 View Post
Just some thoughts and questions on the thinner oil option:

The thinner oil may save our bearings but what is it doing to the rest of your engine? I read about a members blackstone who was using the thinner oil and he was getting less typicial bearing "elements" but more new element problems were popping up.
So it appears the BMW engineers screwed up on the bearing clearance, but I am sure their reason for the thicker engine oil recommendation, was not directed to the flaw but more a recommendation for the entire engines health. At least we know what to look for with the bearings and we know the flaw.

So If we start throwing thinner oil in the S65 are we creating a new unknown problem/problems that may take some time to materialize down the road?
Used oil analysis, as done by Blackstone, is virtually useless in determining engine wear. It's not designed for it and it will only catch it in some cases with some parts and some metals. It is well known that some metals show up more frequently with certain oils (e.g. Iron with M1) due to chemistry and additive pack. There is no apparent correlation with actual engine wear that I have come across on the BITOG forum.
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      10-16-2014, 03:42 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gatty1303 View Post
This.

Blows my mind how many people talk so nonchalantly about replacing rod bearings on this forum, like they are changing their worn clutch. I don't care how "high revving" or "high performance" of a motor this is considered. Bearings are not a "consumable" item. We are taking about BMW's for Gods sake. This is something I would expect out of my beloved Ford Motor Company
I don't like it, but bought the car a few years ago and have accepted the bearing situation and changed the bearings as preventative maintenance. Complaining would not make me enjoy my car with less risk.
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      10-16-2014, 04:17 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SinfulM3 View Post
Just some thoughts and questions on the thinner oil option:

The thinner oil may save our bearings but what is it doing to the rest of your engine? I read about a members blackstone who was using the thinner oil and he was getting less typicial bearing "elements" but more new element problems were popping up.
So it appears the BMW engineers screwed up on the bearing clearance, but I am sure their reason for the thicker engine oil recommendation, was not directed to the flaw but more a recommendation for the entire engines health. At least we know what to look for with the bearings and we know the flaw.

So If we start throwing thinner oil in the S65 are we creating a new unknown problem/problems that may take some time to materialize down the road?
Spot on !
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      10-16-2014, 06:30 AM   #94
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      10-16-2014, 09:23 AM   #95
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I read through some of the posts and started skull f**ing myself. Only to realize 63K miles, 10K or almost 100 days on track. No Blackstone report, running Castrol 60 as recommended, 10K changes.

Zero issues and the car runs like a champ. I have CPO until next May and will get a $70-90 Fidelity powertrain warranty (per month charge) for added peace of mind. So far, car runs like a champ!

Enjoy the ride. Unlike E46 and 36s (including Euro spec) which I have owned, this car is bullet proof with no RTAB, front bushing failure, powersteering, SMG pump issue, power steering hose leak etc which plagued previous cars.

Life is too short to think negative, let her scream to 8K

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      10-16-2014, 01:42 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lutfy View Post
I read through some of the posts and started skull f**ing myself. Only to realize 63K miles, 10K or almost 100 days on track. No Blackstone report, running Castrol 60 as recommended, 10K changes.

Zero issues and the car runs like a champ. I have CPO until next May and will get a $70-90 Fidelity powertrain warranty (per month charge) for added peace of mind. So far, car runs like a champ!

Enjoy the ride. Unlike E46 and 36s (including Euro spec) which I have owned, this car is bullet proof with no RTAB, front bushing failure, powersteering, SMG pump issue, power steering hose leak etc which plagued previous cars.

Life is too short to think negative, let her scream to 8K

Lutfy


Sticking with the 60 too!
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      10-21-2014, 05:32 PM   #97
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Anybody know if rod bearing replacement is covered under USAA warranty? Considering getting one, but knowing that they will replace worn bearing sure sweetens the deal. Thanks.
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      10-21-2014, 06:24 PM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lutfy View Post
I read through some of the posts and started skull f**ing myself. Only to realize 63K miles, 10K or almost 100 days on track. No Blackstone report, running Castrol 60 as recommended, 10K changes.

Zero issues and the car runs like a champ. I have CPO until next May and will get a $70-90 Fidelity powertrain warranty (per month charge) for added peace of mind. So far, car runs like a champ!

Enjoy the ride. Unlike E46 and 36s (including Euro spec) which I have owned, this car is bullet proof with no RTAB, front bushing failure, powersteering, SMG pump issue, power steering hose leak etc which plagued previous cars.

Life is too short to think negative, let her scream to 8K

Lutfy

+1 !!! Don't give in to the fear...
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      10-22-2014, 07:29 AM   #99
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The amount of failures are minuscule and the amount of failures on stock cars even more so.

This is a Bimmerpost over hyped, over analyzed and over blown issue. Fueled by tuners who claim to understand the effects of tuning this engine which they probably don't or for financial reasons don't want to admit.

These cars doing amazing things, but come with a price: they require proper break-in and usage. Many abuse these cars because they simply don't know how to properly operate and maintain one. So, buying used I find to be of a much greater risk because you don't really know the fine details of the cars usage and such by the previous owner(s). Yea, you avoid depreciation loss of buying new car and get it cheaper, but there are hidden costs.

Cheers,
e46e92
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      10-23-2014, 12:22 AM   #100
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Im just going by facts, I treated my engine very well prob far too well. When I had by bearings replaced I was told several times how spotless my engine was except... for the worn ass bearings at 31,000 miles. This was stock car except for tune and exhaust at the time.
Well treated car, not even tracked all fluids changed at half the recommend milage and car always warmed up. End result? Bearings worn to shit because BWM made a mistake, will this happen this badly to every m3? No but it happens to enouf and you never know if it will be you, I would of thought my bearings would of been pristine.. I was wrong.

If you want to ignore that this could happen to your engine that's on you but don't try to talk others out of doing a little preventive bearing change when it could very well save their engine.
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      10-23-2014, 02:57 AM   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squartus View Post
Im just going by facts, I treated my engine very well prob far too well. When I had by bearings replaced I was told several times how spotless my engine was except... for the worn ass bearings at 31,000 miles. This was stock car except for tune and exhaust at the time.
Well treated car, not even tracked all fluids changed at half the recommend milage and car always warmed up. End result? Bearings worn to shit because BWM made a mistake, will this happen this badly to every m3? No but it happens to enouf and you never know if it will be you, I would of thought my bearings would of been pristine.. I was wrong.

If you want to ignore that this could happen to your engine that's on you but don't try to talk others out of doing a little preventive bearing change when it could very well save their engine.
'Stock car except for tune'...lol
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      10-23-2014, 06:36 AM   #102
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
The amount of failures are minuscule and the amount of failures on stock cars even more so.

This is a Bimmerpost over hyped, over analyzed and over blown issue. Fueled by tuners who claim to understand the effects of tuning this engine which they probably don't or for financial reasons don't want to admit.

These cars doing amazing things, but come with a price: they require proper break-in and usage. Many abuse these cars because they simply don't know how to properly operate and maintain one. So, buying used I find to be of a much greater risk because you don't really know the fine details of the cars usage and such by the previous owner(s). Yea, you avoid depreciation loss of buying new car and get it cheaper, but there are hidden costs.

Cheers,
e46e92
OK. So we have one possible explanation. Cars with bad bearings or bearing failures were not properly broken in, not properly operated, or not properly maintained. Common sense.

Have any of the known failures been on a car that was properly broken in, properly operated and properly maintained?
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      10-23-2014, 08:42 AM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
OK. So we have one possible explanation. Cars with bad bearings or bearing failures were not properly broken in, not properly operated, or not properly maintained. Common sense.

Have any of the known failures been on a car that was properly broken in, properly operated and properly maintained?
I cannot speak for break-in. But i can speak for proper operation and maintenance. Also in the EAS bearing journal thread you see the bearings of the cars that came in with regular oil changes. I think proper maintenance can be knocked out of the picture as the maintenance seems not to impact it.
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      10-25-2014, 06:14 PM   #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtecnic
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
OK. So we have one possible explanation. Cars with bad bearings or bearing failures were not properly broken in, not properly operated, or not properly maintained. Common sense.

Have any of the known failures been on a car that was properly broken in, properly operated and properly maintained?
I cannot speak for break-in. But i can speak for proper operation and maintenance. Also in the EAS bearing journal thread you see the bearings of the cars that came in with regular oil changes. I think proper maintenance can be knocked out of the picture as the maintenance seems not to impact it.
Proper maintenance / operation goes a lot further like that:

1) guys who go over 3k before oil at temp (separate from tach indicator)

2) guys who think cool down after redlining the car or hard accelerations means driving a mile and turning the car off

Those are just some examples.....

Cheers,
e46e92
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      10-25-2014, 10:52 PM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
Proper maintenance / operation goes a lot further like that:

1) guys who go over 3k before oil at temp (separate from tach indicator)

2) guys who think cool down after redlining the car or hard accelerations means driving a mile and turning the car off

Those are just some examples.....

Cheers,
e46e92
do you have any empirical evidence that owners alledged abuse is the cause of bearing wear? or are you pulling crap out of your ass?

oh and by the way not one single s65 or s85 engine opened up had bearings that didn't show excessive wear. i guess there isn't a single m3 or m5 owner out there that knows how to operate their car properly
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      10-26-2014, 05:05 PM   #106
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Look this whole issue had been gone over in detail, its not people "not taking care of engine" its that bwm made an engine with inadequate journal/bearing clearance about 1/4 of the recommended clearance for high performance engines. The oil simply can not get where it needs to go, causing high heat and friction.

Massive in detail write up here,
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838

Are other sources by other engine builders etc but this pretty much covers it. Its not a mystery, only true fix is to have your engine pulled and parts milled down to proper specs. WPC treated bearings and whatnot will help some but is only buying you time.
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      10-26-2014, 05:16 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SinfulM3 View Post
I am starting to ask myself is it worth the premium price to own this car when there are other performance cars that are more reliable and cost less?
Are there more reliable cars out there? The E9x M3 overall has proven itself to be a very reliable car, and the bearing failure issue seems to affect 1-2% of cars using the most generous of estimates.

I think you'll just find another headache to worry about with whatever you switch to, but if it helps you sleep at night, go ahead and trade in, although now is probably not the best time financially.
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      10-26-2014, 08:50 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petros
Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
Proper maintenance / operation goes a lot further like that:

1) guys who go over 3k before oil at temp (separate from tach indicator)

2) guys who think cool down after redlining the car or hard accelerations means driving a mile and turning the car off

Those are just some examples.....

Cheers,
e46e92
do you have any empirical evidence that owners alledged abuse is the cause of bearing wear? or are you pulling crap out of your ass?

oh and by the way not one single s65 or s85 engine opened up had bearings that didn't show excessive wear. i guess there isn't a single m3 or m5 owner out there that knows how to operate their car properly
Not pulling crap out of my ass, just know 99% of you on here talk out of your ass, because those who know don't waste their time on here.

So continue to attack people who don't agree with the amateur crap spewed around here....and just cause a tuner is on here spewing it, don't make them an expert. It means they are marketing on here.

Keep it coming juvenile....

Cheers,
e46e92
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      10-26-2014, 08:52 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squartus
Look this whole issue had been gone over in detail, its not people "not taking care of engine" its that bwm made an engine with inadequate journal/bearing clearance about 1/4 of the recommended clearance for high performance engines. The oil simply can not get where it needs to go, causing high heat and friction.

Massive in detail write up here,
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838" rel="" target="_blank">http://<a href="http://www.m3post.co...p?t=892838</a>

Are other sources by other engine builders etc but this pretty much covers it. Its not a mystery, only true fix is to have your engine pulled and parts milled down to proper specs. WPC treated bearings and whatnot will help some but is only buying you time.
Yes such a huge issue, yet majority of M3s have had no issue.

Keep it coming boys, how many more threads can we get going to build the hysteria.

Cheers,
e46e92
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      10-26-2014, 10:36 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
Not pulling crap out of my ass, just know 99% of you on here talk out of your ass, because those who know don't waste their time on here.

So continue to attack people who don't agree with the amateur crap spewed around here....and just cause a tuner is on here spewing it, don't make them an expert. It means they are marketing on here.

Keep it coming juvenile....

Cheers,
e46e92
we have certified reputable engine builders including one who works for a race-winning team over here on the forum testifying in their expert opinion that the bearing clearances are way too tight and a thick oil will not flow inadequately and lead to excessive wear. We have empirical evidence to support this, in the form of every single S65 and S85 engine opened up showing excessive bearing wear.

On the other hand, we have some idiot without any qualifications telling us BMW did a fantastic job and all those problems are because owners somehow don't know how to drive their cars properly

Yeah, it's obvious who is the one talking crap out of their ass
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