[DG330]

Hi,

Has anyone had issues with a rough idle when starting up only when the engine has been fully up to temp, then left to settle and started up again.

Noticed this on mine a few times, only does it rarely. From cold never any issues, this only happens once the car has been up at full temp on a good drive, left to cool (engine off) maybe 20 minutes, then started up it just judders a bit, but doesn't stall.

Have a video I'll upload shortly.

Thanks

[DG330]

[pierreye]

Your rpm during idle seems to be too low around 600 rpm. My N20 always stay around 700-800 rpm. Normally when the car is started cold, idle rpm will be slightly higher.

[Troy27]

Originally Posted by DG330

Hi,

Has anyone had issues with a rough idle when starting up only when the engine has been fully up to temp, then left to settle and started up again.

Noticed this on mine a few times, only does it rarely. From cold never any issues, this only happens once the car has been up at full temp on a good drive, left to cool (engine off) maybe 20 minutes, then started up it just judders a bit, but doesn't stall.

Have a video I'll upload shortly.

Thanks

Same exact thing happened to my n26 motor. Never a problem from cold start. Only after being driven around and restarted after going into a store or something. It ended up being the coil packs. Swapped them and now have no issues.

[DG330]

Originally Posted by Troy27

Same exact thing happened to my n26 motor. Never a problem from cold start. Only after being driven around and restarted after going into a store or something. It ended up being the coil packs. Swapped them and now have no issues.

That's exactly it. Will have to try that if it gets worse.

[Troy27]

Originally Posted by DG330

That's exactly it. Will have to try that if it gets worse.

Eldor coil packs from fcpeuro are really good and priced good

[lotos]

Ok, not to scare anyone but could be something deeper than the coils or spark plugs, I am curious if you scan the OBD errors if additional errors might come up.

So, I had the same or at least a similar issues few times in past. Btw, I own a 2014 320i xDrive (F30/N20).

It happened somewhere back in 2018 (goes down to 600, 500 RPM and quickly back to 700 - which is the norm). I've noticed it before 2018 as well but did not pay attention until then. Took it to the dealer, they said that they could not reproduce, gave some shitty advise like change the gas stations and check again

The problem with this issue is that I would get this behavior (sporadic RPMs at startup) only once in a while, usually on a cold start up - at least this is what I noticed (and it would not happen constantly, could happen today and then nothing for weeks or months, then again, maybe few times in a row/week/month..). Still continued happening after I got it back from the dealer. The car had around 50k KM at that time.

Now, around a week ago (Feb 14th, 2019 - the date though / Valentine), took a ride out of the city, a few hundred KMs, pushed it a bit, up to 140/150 km/hr, and when returned back, noticed when stopped at a red light that on low RPMs the engine is getting sporadic RPMs. Same at another light and another one... Also when pressing the gas pedal a bit and slower I could feel there is not enough power. If I hit the gas harder then it goes better. Still, this now would happen always at low RMPs + cold start. This was not right, totally different and wrong behavior compared with the usual normal driving. !!! NO ERROR ON THE CONSOLE !!!

And guess what, my warranty is now gone and, btw, the millage is 63k KMs on board (hence why I did not extended my warranty which would've cost me ~4k for some 2 years and does not necessarily cover the issue I have.

Also I bought OBD scanner and when checked the errors it showed up a P0301 (Cylinder 1 - misfire detected) error. Now I was quite sure it must be the spark plugs or the coils. So I checked my list of done services, it was done less than a year ago (before the warranty expired - my last service with BMW dealer).

Ok then, I now said it must be the coils as the spark plugs are quite new and I only drove like 10-12k KMs last year.

Tried switching them, replaced coil 2 with coil 1 and could not notice difference, the RPMs would be sporadic continuously (500-600RPMs, sometimes up to 800-1k and so on). Oh, yes, and I was clearing & re-scanning the errors in the system through the OBD after each coil change) - was getting same error P0301 but also later got the P0300 (Random / Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected). Switched the coils back and forth then did 1 to 3 and 3 to 1 - same errors, same sporadic RPMs... Put everything back and it was clear the issue is not with the coils.

Now decided to check the spark plugs, opened cylinder 1 and found the spark plug being wet with gasoline. Ok I said, it must be it. Took it off, dried it (heated) and took the one from the 2nd cylinder as well then replaced the 1 with 2 and vice-versa. Started the engine (same sporadic RPMs), cleared the errors, re-scanned and guess what, fck, same Cylinder 1 misfire. ... Replaced cylinder 1's spark plug with the 3rd, same errors...

Btw, while playing with these changes I had to start & stop the engine more times, kept it running for a while as well so later got the P0172 (System too rich, bank 1) and later P0171 (System too lean, bank 1) - this I read it was because the gasoline from the cylinder 1 was not fully burnt but thrown out into the catalyst system I believe.

So played around with these for some two days and in the end decided to go with a specialized service. Found a certified service and took the car to them (before this, I put all the parts where they were from the beginning - spark plugs & coils).

The car is in the shop for two days already, they've diagnosed it, checked the spark plugs and the coils - those are good, the same errors are displayed for them (P0300 & P0301). They called me yesterday and said they've looked inside something (I am no expert here, could not remember what the name was), they used some telescopic tools for that, and they said that the cylinders are all clean and good. So there it nothing they can tell me about the issue. Sporadic RPMs are still happening and the errors are there.

They've read the BMW service reports and asked about that time when I had the car checked @BMW Dealer for the sporadic RPM issue (over a year ago) and then said it could be related and appears that because I added some more miles it just got worse and shows the better signs now. They are still looking into it but are afraid there could be a more major issue with the engine itself, maybe a production problem or so, where talking about the 'angle' of something...

Note: I tried to find a post with similar issues and could not, hence why I posted it here. Please advise if you find or heard something about it. It is a fcking new car, 63000 km... I would not expect something like this to happen BMW!!!

[DG330]

Originally Posted by lotos

Ok, not to scare anyone but could be something deeper than the coils or spark plugs, I am curious if you scan the OBD errors if additional errors might come up.

So, I had the same or at least a similar issues few times in past. Btw, I own a 2014 320i xDrive (F30/N20).

It happened somewhere back in 2018 (goes down to 600, 500 RPM and quickly back to 700 - which is the norm). I've noticed it before 2018 as well but did not pay attention until then. Took it to the dealer, they said that they could not reproduce, gave some shitty advise like change the gas stations and check again

The problem with this issue is that I would get this behavior (sporadic RPMs at startup) only once in a while, usually on a cold start up - at least this is what I noticed (and it would not happen constantly, could happen today and then nothing for weeks or months, then again, maybe few times in a row/week/month..). Still continued happening after I got it back from the dealer. The car had around 50k KM at that time.

Now, around a week ago (Feb 14th, 2019 - the date though / Valentine), took a ride out of the city, a few hundred KMs, pushed it a bit, up to 140/150 km/hr, and when returned back, noticed when stopped at a red light that on low RPMs the engine is getting sporadic RPMs. Same at another light and another one... Also when pressing the gas pedal a bit and slower I could feel there is not enough power. If I hit the gas harder then it goes better. Still, this now would happen always at low RMPs + cold start. This was not right, totally different and wrong behavior compared with the usual normal driving. !!! NO ERROR ON THE CONSOLE !!!

And guess what, my warranty is now gone and, btw, the millage is 63k KMs on board (hence why I did not extended my warranty which would've cost me ~4k for some 2 years and does not necessarily cover the issue I have.

Also I bought OBD scanner and when checked the errors it showed up a P0301 (Cylinder 1 - misfire detected) error. Now I was quite sure it must be the spark plugs or the coils. So I checked my list of done services, it was done less than a year ago (before the warranty expired - my last service with BMW dealer).

Ok then, I now said it must be the coils as the spark plugs are quite new and I only drove like 10-12k KMs last year.

Tried switching them, replaced coil 2 with coil 1 and could not notice difference, the RPMs would be sporadic continuously (500-600RPMs, sometimes up to 800-1k and so on). Oh, yes, and I was clearing & re-scanning the errors in the system through the OBD after each coil change) - was getting same error P0301 but also later got the P0300 (Random / Multiple Cylinder Misfire Detected). Switched the coils back and forth then did 1 to 3 and 3 to 1 - same errors, same sporadic RPMs... Put everything back and it was clear the issue is not with the coils.

Now decided to check the spark plugs, opened cylinder 1 and found the spark plug being wet with gasoline. Ok I said, it must be it. Took it off, dried it (heated) and took the one from the 2nd cylinder as well then replaced the 1 with 2 and vice-versa. Started the engine (same sporadic RPMs), cleared the errors, re-scanned and guess what, fck, same Cylinder 1 misfire. ... Replaced cylinder 1's spark plug with the 3rd, same errors...

Btw, while playing with these changes I had to start & stop the engine more times, kept it running for a while as well so later got the P0172 (System too rich, bank 1) and later P0171 (System too lean, bank 1) - this I read it was because the gasoline from the cylinder 1 was not fully burnt but thrown out into the catalyst system I believe.

So played around with these for some two days and in the end decided to go with a specialized service. Found a certified service and took the car to them (before this, I put all the parts where they were from the beginning - spark plugs & coils).

The car is in the shop for two days already, they've diagnosed it, checked the spark plugs and the coils - those are good, the same errors are displayed for them (P0300 & P0301). They called me yesterday and said they've looked inside something (I am no expert here, could not remember what the name was), they used some telescopic tools for that, and they said that the cylinders are all clean and good. So there it nothing they can tell me about the issue. Sporadic RPMs are still happening and the errors are there.

They've read the BMW service reports and asked about that time when I had the car checked @BMW Dealer for the sporadic RPM issue (over a year ago) and then said it could be related and appears that because I added some more miles it just got worse and shows the better signs now. They are still looking into it but are afraid there could be a more major issue with the engine itself, maybe a production problem or so, where talking about the 'angle' of something...

Note: I tried to find a post with similar issues and could not, hence why I posted it here. Please advise if you find or heard something about it. It is a fcking new car, 63000 km... I would not expect something like this to happen BMW!!!

Thanks the response, is yours only when cold?

If so, look at valvetronic servo and vanos, although I'm not sure how common that is.

Also, get Ista+ and ring life diagnostics (it's bmw software and free) just need a enet cable from eBay and use of a good laptop.

Let us know how you get on and put some videos up?

[lotos]

Originally Posted by DG330

Thanks the response, is yours only when cold?

If so, look at valvetronic servo and vanos, although I'm not sure how common that is.

Also, get Ista+ and ring life diagnostics (it's bmw software and free) just need a enet cable from eBay and use of a good laptop.

Let us know how you get on and put some videos up?

Thank you DG330 , btw, can you please explain a bit more about the Ista+ & ring life diagnostics?!
Where can I get those and how to use them (I have a cable already)?

[joemech]

bmwcoders.com

I just got a message power train fault and it was emissions warranty for vanos program update

[DG330]

Originally Posted by lotos

Thank you DG330 , btw, can you please explain a bit more about the Ista+ & ring life diagnostics?!
Where can I get those and how to use them (I have a cable already)?

Sorry bmw live software - bloody autocorrect.

There's lots of places to download free software, just google ISTA+

You'll be able to check the sensor values and see if anything looks strange

[lotos]

Just got a call from the service and the guy said it must be one or some of the servo OR vanos OR timing chain and they should be covered under some sort of a 7 years warranty from BMW (some sort of an extension for specific drive train related items). Will have to check with BMW dealer and will let you guys know.

[pierreye]

Good news then. I would push them to change your timing chain even if that's not related to the problem as yours is pre 2015 which had timing chain issue. I would suspect most likely vanos issue.

[damonito10]

I’ve had rough-ish idling on my N20 328i. But everything seems to be good. I recently did my plugs (NGK) and I’ve been doing my own oil changes every 5000ish miles. My timing chain is tense and in tact. Also I’m at 102k miles. She still pushes and I drive her pretty hard. Only issue I’ve encountered since purchase (90k miles) was an O2 sensor change upstream. Will keep you updated though.

[lotos]

Originally Posted by DG330

Sorry bmw live software - bloody autocorrect.

There's lots of places to download free software, just google ISTA+

You'll be able to check the sensor values and see if anything looks strange

Last update on this!

So in the end I had to bring the car to the official BMW dealer's service and in one hour they've called me, it was the injector #1 (leaking) - replaced it, inspection + work + part ~ 1000$CAD.

Now the question, what were those fcking 2nd lvl services worth?! No way, unless it is a proven & recommended good one - good luck finding it on your own!

Spent ~280$CAD trying to find the issue with them (specialized service, you've heard of them..) + kept the car in their service for 2 days and nothing + 28$ spend on a cab!!!

While 1 hour at the official dealer & the issue was figured out + few more hours the car fixed + got a free cab back and forth dealer -> home -> dealer (which saved me another ~40$ total) --- all these were done the same day!

[lotos]

Originally Posted by pierreye

Good news then. I would push them to change your timing chain even if that's not related to the problem as yours is pre 2015 which had timing chain issue. I would suspect most likely vanos issue.

I discussed this with BMW Dealer and they said that the warranty on the timing chain & oil pump drive chain were extended to 7 years/70.000 miles (N20 & N26 engines) - this is the official info.

They've sort of checked the chain and said it has no issues for now and if something was wrong it would've at least done some noise which was not the case.

Anyway, they said not to worry as it is covered and to bring the car in case I hear it.

[floridaorange]

Mine idled rough before it blew completely - 2013 320i - 48k miles. RIP.

[DG330]

Originally Posted by floridaorange

Mine idled rough before it blew completely - 2013 320i - 48k miles. RIP.

How did it blow?

Timing chain snap?

Mine only idles funny after warmed up, left to cool for 10 mins or so, then started. Those first 10 seconds it will bounce around and maybe stall. Then it's fine again. Strange! Had my TC changed by BMW only a few months ago.

[floridaorange]

Cylinder 2 seized up to the point of no return

[DG330]

Originally Posted by floridaorange

Cylinder 2 seized up to the point of no return

Any idea what this happened? What caused it? Was it mapped?

[Frost_F30]

So my 328i starting idle very rough and jerking while in neutral or reversing on low speeds causing the car to stall. Brought it to BMW to have it diagnosed and they said the fuel injectors required replacing. The car has only done 60,000 km and i always use 98 octane fuel.

They wanted $4000 to replace all the injectors and you can imagine my reaction. Bought the bosch equivalent part online Bosch 0261500260 Eu6 injectors and had them installed them for $500 including the cost of first diagnosis.

Car is idling and running better than brand new, car has slight rumble on cold starts when brand new. It feels as if the engine is not even on anymore when idle.

Will be slowly stocking up on parts for next major maintenance item e.g timing chain since i dont want to be paying dealer prices.

[BennettBucsFan]

Originally Posted by pierreye

Good news then. I would push them to change your timing chain even if that's not related to the problem as yours is pre 2015 which had timing chain issue. I would suspect most likely vanos issue.

Just an FYI, pre 2015 or post 2015 doesn't seem to matter. I'm on my 2nd N26 this one is build date 11/2015 and I'm starting to see TC guide pieces in my oil. It doesn't appear that BMW corrected anything on the last of the N20/N26's they rolled out before switching to the B engines.