[PeterWT]

Originally Posted by Wires

For me, I don't know if it's the throttle blips. At lower RPM and manually downshifting (at least in sport), it acts like a car with a high stall torque converter and you get a really harsh shift like WDE82 described.

Easy test is start coasting to a light, and manually downshift. It doesn't do it in stage 2 though so I went back to that.

Do you get that harsh downshift regardless of the mode (Comfort/Sport/Sport+)?

[Wires]

Originally Posted by PeterWT

Do you get that harsh downshift regardless of the mode (Comfort/Sport/Sport+)?

Hmm.. I cannot remember now. I never usually us comfort unless I'm cruising on the highway, and never usually sport+. Most driving was in sport and that's where I noticed it. I want to say it was in comfort, but much less harsh. Don't quote me on that though.

[PeterWT]

Originally Posted by Wires

Hmm.. I cannot remember now. I never usually us comfort unless I'm cruising on the highway, and never usually sport+. Most driving was in sport and that's where I noticed it. I want to say it was in comfort, but much less harsh. Don't quote me on that though.

I'm on the Stg3 OTS flash. When I get a chance, I'll try the scenario you described and post back.

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by PeterWT

Do you get that harsh downshift regardless of the mode (Comfort/Sport/Sport+)?

Hard downshifts are in sport or sport+ manual only. The blip is too aggressive at lower RPM. The rest is great.

[Mr. 340]

Originally Posted by PeterWT

Do you get that harsh downshift regardless of the mode (Comfort/Sport/Sport+)?

I personally only get it in Sport +

[PeterWT]

So, I tried it last night on the OTS Stg3 flash. Coasting to a stop while in Sport on the mode switch and Manual on the stick, I downshifted at just under 2K RPM. The 2>1 shift was indeed a bit too aggressive, given the slow speed and RPM.

I must say though, I don't ever do that scenario. Most of the time, I am in Comfort on the mode switch and Sport on the stick. In that configuration, when I coast to a stop, the trans downshifts 2>1 at just under 1K RPM and the shift is barely noticeable.

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by PeterWT

So, I tried it last night on the OTS Stg3 flash. Coasting to a stop while in Sport on the mode switch and Manual on the stick, I downshifted at just under 2K RPM. The 2>1 shift was indeed a bit too aggressive, given the slow speed and RPM.

I must say though, I don't ever do that scenario. Most of the time, I am in Comfort on the mode switch and Sport on the stick. In that configuration, when I coast to a stop, the trans downshifts 2>1 at just under 1K RPM and the shift is barely noticeable.

2 to 1 is never really done. Even in autocross that should be avoided.

[PeterWT]

Originally Posted by WDE82

2 to 1 is never really done. Even in autocross that should be avoided.

Yeah, as I noted, I don't do manual downshifts 2>1.

However, Wires stated: "What I noticed between S2 and S3 when driving in manual mode is the 2->1 downshift tended to get some high shift flare (where it's pretty harsh). I ended up going back to S2 more around concern about wheel slippage on snowy roads during that shift. Operation wise, S3 was fine the rest of the time for a daily driver though."

So, I wanted to test that scenario to see if I got the same behavior. I did.

[blacksapphire440i]

Originally Posted by PeterWT

Yeah, as I noted, I don't do manual downshifts 2>1.

However, Wires stated: "What I noticed between S2 and S3 when driving in manual mode is the 2->1 downshift tended to get some high shift flare (where it's pretty harsh). I ended up going back to S2 more around concern about wheel slippage on snowy roads during that shift. Operation wise, S3 was fine the rest of the time for a daily driver though."

So, I wanted to test that scenario to see if I got the same behavior. I did.

is it bad to do 2>1 downshifts??

[PeterWT]

Originally Posted by blacksapphire440i

is it bad to do 2>1 downshifts??

Bad?
I just don't find it necessary to do manual downshifts 2>1.
My car is in Comfort/Sport most of the time. I seldom shift manually.

[WDE82]

Originally Posted by blacksapphire440i

is it bad to do 2>1 downshifts??

No just unnecessary and often slower to perform. 1st gear is short and especially in more powerful cars you can't get all the torque to the ground anyway so you might as well stay in 2nd.

1st is pretty much a gear for starting from a dead stop.

[Red-i]

Originally Posted by blacksapphire440i

is it bad to do 2>1 downshifts??

There's just really no point. Second has lots of power even down low. Most launch from second i believe

[Wires]

Originally Posted by Red-i

There's just really no point. Second has lots of power even down low. Most launch from second i believe

That's usually the best choice for fastest 0-60. I thought I read BMW documentation that just doesn't recommend it for the extremes in cold or hot transmission temperature due to the added stress.

For me, it was just a stoplight 2->1 downshift, around 2000RPM.

[oem.plus_440gc]

I'm pretty sure (atleast with stock trans tune) that if your slowing down, downshift to 2nd, and then come to a stop, the car will automatically shift back to 1st, so no real need to downshift back to 1st gear.

[Skyhigh]

The stock always downshifts for you when required, not just 2–>1.

[Skyhigh]

Wires
WDE82
PeterWT
et al

I did further testing, incl. the Throttle Blips:

- Throttle blips are present (in Stage 3) in both Sport and Sport+

- I intentionally did 2-->1 in M (and Sport / Sport+) - I agree I can't really see why anyone would do it, as the car is perfectly happy in 2nd gear even at very low speed. But this said when I did it I did not find the blip to be harsh or too much. The bump forwards is minimal (very far from a safety concern) and I for one did not find it any "worse" than when downshifting from a higher gear... (just unnecessary).
I am pretty sure this can be adjusted through the "Throttle Blips M-Mode" sliders in the settings, specifically for 2-->1. I was planning to do it initially, but don't really consider it needed, after having tested it.
- I once again am puzzled about what harsh shifting and kicks people are talking about reg. Stage 3!?!? The bumps (I cannot call them kicks, that would be an overstatement) when shifting even under full throttle in Sport + and M are barely noticeable. Yes, one can feel them but they are FAR from scary or harsh. Occasionally similar shifts could be felt even with the stock software, I am pretty sure. I must say my car is not tuned (yet) apart from MPPSK, so I don't know if they may become worse when more power/torque is available, but I'd think 380PS and 520Nm (values with high flow DP) are still representative for that matter.


Apart from the Throttle Blips:
- I discovered a Mode combination which (in my case) has become pretty unusable with xHP - that is D + Sport. With xHP, the RPMs do not go up in this mode (unlike with Stock software), which means the exhaust valves open but the engine is kept in 1000-2000 RPM range where there is quite an annoying drone with an MPPSK exhaust system and a sport cat downpipe. Especially if one cruises and doesn't force change of gears or higher RPM.
Why would anyone drive in Sport during cruising is a valid question, but still... it is simply annoying in my case. Once the stick goes S as well and the RPMs go up, it is good again. Meaning Sport can/should be used only in combination with S in my case... I wish there was a setting to allow me to still raise the RPMs in Sport (or change the shift points for Sport only)
Not a biggy though.

- Within my precisely 200km (~120 miles) with xHP, my Quickcharge Time for Clutch A increased twice already! From 6ms (prior to xHP) to 9ms and now 12 ms (effectively doubled)! I hope it does not continue with the same climbing rate....!?
Have you guys monitored your adaptation values and have they been affected by xHP so quickly? What are your quickcharge times?

[PeterWT]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

Wires
WDE82
PeterWT
et al

I did further testing, incl. the Throttle Blips:

- Throttle blips are present (in Stage 3) in both Sport and Sport+

- I intentionally did 2-->1 in M (and Sport / Sport+) - I agree I can't really see why anyone would do it, as the car is perfectly happy in 2nd gear even at very low speed. But this said when I did it I did not find the blip to be harsh or too much. The bump forwards is minimal (very far from a safety concern) and I for one did not find it any "worse" than when downshifting from a higher gear... (just unnecessary).
I am pretty sure this can be adjusted through the "Throttle Blips M-Mode" sliders in the settings, specifically for 2-->1. I was planning to do it initially, but don't really consider it needed, after having tested it.
- I once again am puzzled about what harsh shifting and kicks people are talking about reg. Stage 3!?!? The bumps (I cannot call them kicks, that would be an overstatement) when shifting even under full throttle in Sport + and M are barely noticeable. Yes, one can feel them but they are FAR from scary or harsh. Occasionally similar shifts could be felt even with the stock software, I am pretty sure. I must say my car is not tuned (yet) apart from MPPSK, so I don't know if they may become worse when more power/torque is available, but I'd think 360PS and 500Nm are still representative for that matter.


Apart from the Throttle Blips:
- I discovered a Mode combination which (in my case) has become pretty unusable with xHP - that is D + Sport. With xHP, the RPMs do not go up in this mode (unlike with Stock software), which means the exhaust valves open but the engine is kept in 1000-2000 RPM range where there is quite an annoying drone with an MPPSK exhaust system and a sport cat downpipe. Especially if one cruises and doesn't force change of gears or higher RPM.
Why would anyone drive in Sport during cruising is a valid question, but still... it is simply annoying in my case. Once the stick goes S as well and the RPMs go up, it is good again. Meaning Sport can/should be used only in combination with S in my case... I wish there was a setting to allow me to still raise the RPMs in Sport (or change the shift points for Sport only)
Not a biggy though.

- Within my first 200km (~120 miles) with xHP, my Quickcharge Time for Clutch A increased twice already! From 6ms (prior to xHP) to 9ms and now 12 ms (effectively doubled)! I hope it does not continue with the same climbing rate....!?
Have you guys monitored your adaptation values and have they been affected by xHP so quickly? What are your quickcharge times?

Thanks for sharing the additional testing/details.
I have not monitored my adaptation values. Maybe I should have. hmm.
I didn't think there was any reason to believe that the xHP OTS maps would 'harm' the transmission in any way. If anything, with a tuned ECU, I thought it was the opposite. I hope that wasn't just wishful thinking.

[Skyhigh]

Don't believe everything you read (written by the very people selling you a product ). I am sure xHP increases wear (and that's implied by them as well, it can be expected), however doubling a quickcharge time within just 200km is a bit scary, on a very low mileage, non-tuned car as well....
This said, I have already seen one of my qucikcharge times (Clutch B) go down a bit in time (before xHP), so that's a dynamic thing, it looks like.
What are your adaptation values and any record of that they may have been in the past?

[Wires]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

Wires
Have you guys monitored your adaptation values and have they been affected by xHP so quickly? What are your quickcharge times?

Is that what the app told you when you first flashed xHP until now? It's been a while since I loaded the app, and wondering if it reset the adaptations (6ms) but the transmission needed more, hence the rise? Pure speculation here.....

When I have a moment, I'll have to check again to see what mine are.

[Skyhigh]

Your speculation is indeed a very good and sound logic!
Unfortunately no - 6ms value was there when I first got the adapter. I have screenshots and just checked - it was at 6ms roughly 1000km ago, when I first read the values. It has been at that up until I installed xHP, within the first 100-150km it jumped to 9ms and now within another 50km - to 12ms .....
The first 100km were soft driving only in Comfort and D, so in reality only 100km experimenting in different modes.

None of the other values have changed (yet), with xHP on.

[PeterWT]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

Don't believe everything you read (written by the very people selling you a product ). I am sure xHP increases wear (and that's implied by them as well, it can be expected), however doubling a quickcharge time within just 200km is a bit scary, on a very low mileage, non-tuned car as well....
This said, I have already seen one of my qucikcharge times (Clutch B) go down a bit in time (before xHP), so that's a dynamic thing, it looks like.
What are your adaptation values and any record of that they may have been in the past?

Wishful thinking.
I have not recorded my values. I'll check and post next time I connect my adapter.

[Skyhigh]

Please do.
Not planning to get obsessed with the values, but it couldn't remain unnoticed that a value which has been static for min 1000km has now doubled within only 200km with xHP…