12-08-2022, 05:14 PM | #67 | |
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It has come to being scared of the car enthusiast community. That is horrifying. We are allowed to have our likes and our dislikes, our favorites and our despises, but they are just that, opinions. What a great way to show enthusiasm for the car community by telling someone that their vehicle is supposedly a piece of garbage compared to what they should have gotten or should like or what others have. People drive beaters on the street, or even on the track, and have fun. Cars should be fun to drive. If they are fun to drive for the driver, then what else really matters? We should welcome the newcomers who like the new big screens and technology, and tell them to enjoy their rides, because every car can be enjoyable with the right driver |
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12-08-2022, 05:27 PM | #68 | |
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Some posters in this topic don't understand my position either, I see both sides of the enthusiast argument. My wife says I have BMW in my blood, so she sees a bias towards BMW. As I've stated earlier in the tread, I was there from before BMW really earned their iconic motoring status. E21, E30, E12, E28, yes I know those cars well. They weren't perfect at all, great cars but flawed and quirky in some respects. I witnessed how the E30 earned its place in the UK motoring history. I enjoyed driving an E30 323i, (before we had the 325i), many trips cross country in Southern England. Lovely car, even with flawed brake feel, and a twitchy back end. But at the same time I still would choose the 5-series E28 528i. A far better vehicle, IMO. My father started with a New Class 2000 sedan in 1971, he owned multiple BMW models like the E3 2500, settled for 7-series models. When he died he had an E23 735i in his garage, which he was driving until the week he passed. I've have owned an E39, to many folks, the pinnacle of BMW vehicles. I had a well spec'd 540i wagon. Loved that vehicle, but I have to say I enjoy my current F11 535i wagon just as much. The F11 is the BMW I've owned the longest ever, 10+ years. Why? Because it is a superb vehicle. Period. When I move on, I'll miss it more than the E39. When owning the E39 540i I'd carry passengers, many who appreciate decent vehicles. But to explain at low speeds why the ride was compromised, (M-Tech suspension) and have to say. "It's better at speed, it hunkers down and smooths out" is no excuse for a fidgety ride quality on less than perfect road surfaces, at typical speeds we drive all day. Forward to the F11 with its electronics, controlling Adaptive Drive, and hey, I have decent ride quality at low speeds and better handling than the E39 on M-Tech, at speed, all at the touch of a button. What's not to like as a BMW 'enthusiast'. Yes, it is bigger than my first 5-series by a mile, but all cars have grown, people expect it as family transport, BMW or not. I fully understand some enthusiasts want the same today as say the E30 of the past, even the E46. Our 1 & 2-series cars are much bigger and far heavier today than the older 3-series. How we get back to light weight and small vehicles, I don't know. |
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12-08-2022, 05:41 PM | #69 | |
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Many on here rate the E9x models and are hanging on to them as the last decent BMW, for dynamics. I remember when I had my E91 wagon, (I'd driven quite a few E9x examples to get to the spec' I wanted), I wasn't happy with its dynamics, including the HPAS steering. I went into my Ford Dealer to drive a demo UK (2006) Mondeo on my local roads. Iust wanted to see if it was me, or what. The Mondeo Zetec, known to be a good setup and decent driver's car on UK roads, blew the E91 away for how fluid it was through the twisty stuff. Much more composed, steering, damping, handling all better than my BMW, and 'cheap as chips' into the mix as well. |
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12-08-2022, 05:57 PM | #70 | |
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EPS does allow taking out some of the negative interference, that dulls feedback by its very nature. Here in the UK BMW steering has had a bashing ahead of EPS, a big turn off in many of the reviews over the years. Too heavy, etc. We clearly are in different times, with different expectations by many users. |
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12-08-2022, 06:03 PM | #71 | |
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12-08-2022, 06:07 PM | #72 | |
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I'll put my flame suit on... But I was there, all wasn't perfect with BMW. |
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12-08-2022, 06:15 PM | #73 | |
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I do sense many enthusiasts are being left behind. When M3/M4 drivers rate the latest models as the best M-car they have ever had, there is definitely mixed opinion. |
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12-08-2022, 06:40 PM | #74 | |
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12-08-2022, 07:07 PM | #75 |
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If this forum had their way, they'd leave everyone to believe the newest BMW's, especially the G20, has worse driving dynamics than a Honda.
They'd also lead you to believe the X3/X5 is only meant for soccer moms and is an otherwise equally badly driving SUV as any other SUV on the market with no place in BMW's lineup, and no alternative to a sedan/coup. Which anyone that has driven them would know that while you can't beat physics, it does get close for an SUV to the sedans, and are some of the best handling SUVs on the market. There may be some minor regression in driving dynamics over the decades depending on who you ask and personal preferences, but it did not just fall off a cliff. They still drive better than most vehicles on the road, and certainly drive way better than your average Honda. They still are some of the best driving cars on the market. Also for the record. I think iDrive 8 looks amazing. Can't wait to use it. Last edited by TheMaxXHD; 12-08-2022 at 07:13 PM.. |
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12-08-2022, 10:32 PM | #76 | |
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The driving dynamics (and the overall performance) of the G20 are almost universally praised by the vast majority of members who have posted on this forum. And have been from the first day they went on sale in the U.S. It is also almost universally agreed on this forum that BMW’s SUVs are the best driving and handling SUVs on the market. Only possibly bested by the Porsche Macan. Personally, I can’t recall a single instance of reading a post where someone equated the driving dynamics of a BMW SUV to those of other “regular” SUVs.
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12-08-2022, 11:16 PM | #77 | |
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12-09-2022, 12:06 AM | #78 | |
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Who would agree an X5 handles well? Lol thing is a sail boat… won’t even bring up the Cayenne because that would be too much humiliation, but I bought an Audi Q7 instead because I couldn’t bear drive a wallowing X5. I returned the X5 as a loaner, so bad it is… the Q7 is surefooted, even if less luxurious (and less expensive to boot). Hey; I just realized I might have been the first post you read of someone equating the drive dynamics of an X5 to a “regular” SUV. Congratulations on losing your virginity. |
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12-09-2022, 03:21 AM | #79 | |
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The "target audience" of BMW were the original buyers like me who bought a BMW because how it drove and not for the Roundel on the hood. The target audience were the men and women who understood the engineering and why an in-line 6 is balanced and how that affects the feel of the machine, understood the importance of 50/50 weight balance, the importance of sightlines, the impotence of clutch take-up feel, and of brake pedal feedback. It was not about the fun of the drive but rather the quality of the drive. |
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12-09-2022, 03:57 AM | #80 | |
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12-09-2022, 05:56 AM | #81 | |
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But with the advent of the time machine, I'd take a showroom-fresh E28 M5 any day over any current BMW. |
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12-09-2022, 06:47 AM | #82 | |
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Isn't it the same today? Comparing to the past is, IMO, definitely a nostalgic experience, a bit of the "good old days" reminiscing. The motoring scene has changed on so many counts. Weight, safety, emissions, size, etc. Yes, I get the feeling for 1970 - 1980s models, I also have the memories of how BMW stood above the crowd for driving pleasure. For me, it is different than many who know the past, a new E28 M5 or a new F90 M5? I'd be taking the F90. |
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12-09-2022, 07:10 AM | #83 | |
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12-09-2022, 07:32 AM | #84 | |
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The other issue we were starting to notice by the time the E28 models were coming to the UK, suspensions (although firm) were not ideally tuned for UK roads. Our UK chassis engineers in Ford and Rover knew how to tune a chassis, particularly damping for UK use. This became more noticeable as we moved on through the model generations. I'm aware of BMW chassis engineers coming to the UK, to try and fine tune for the UK, a bigger challenge than easily sorted. Secondary ride comfort being the biggest issue and generating the customer complaints. Hence so many UK motor mag' reviews over the years advising users to skip the sport suspensions. |
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12-09-2022, 07:46 AM | #85 | |
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At any point in time, until recently, BMW was always the best driving car compared to its competition given what they knew at the time about how to design cars. They don't seem to be caring about doing that any more. That's what makes a lot of us sad. And yes, in many ways the older cars if not "better" all around were certainly more engaging. An older engaging car can be more fun than a more modern less engaging car. My 135i isn't a "better" car that a current 330i. But it's a crap load more engaging to drive, that's for certain. Would I swap it out for free? Nope. Not if I actually had to keep and drive the 330i. |
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12-09-2022, 07:58 AM | #86 | ||||
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Sure they were built better. But not in the way you think. They were built using better materials. But also, part of that was they were lighter, and often times that lightness and chassis dynamics were at the expense of the actual structural integrity of the frame, and thus if you got hit, and especially if you rolled over, you had much less protecting you. Than you do now. The 80s were a different time. To want an 80s built car on the road today, you would be driving less a nice car, and more an unsafe car. |
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12-09-2022, 08:26 AM | #87 | |
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12-09-2022, 09:17 AM | #88 |
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All this over a grill......I don't exactly like the design either....but you don't see me being all enraged by it.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. Instead of complaining on a forum, speak with the wallets. But that is the problem, they still sell, so anyone that hates the grills has to be mad, because their precious brand doesn't need to listen to them. If you want my honest assessment, the negativity of the grill caused publicity to increase even further, causing more sales. Not exactly the Streisand effect, but something akin to it. In actual fact, that was probably BMW's goal, to create a unique design that causes publicity (positive or negative), to stand out and increase sales. The BMW M lineups in particular, aren't high volume, so the more attention, the better. |
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