F30POST
F30POST
2012-2015 BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General Automotive (non-BMW) Talk + Photos/Videos > Subaru BRZ Concept STI - Amazing!!!
ARMA SPEED
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-19-2011, 10:39 AM   #265
GoingTooFast
Banned
89
Rep
1,247
Posts

Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Good point.. I just think they will not be going the S/C due to corporate image (emissions, fuel consumption, etc.) Might be a popular aftermarket mod though!!
That's what I'm afraid of...

If emissions and fuel consumption are the primary goals I think the only way for them to use a supercharger - remember Toyota already uses it in several applications, mainly through its TRD division, so no arm done to the corporate image - is to also use an intercooler... and here we are back again to the available space issues for the intercooler.

So, in the end you may be right and the only option for a supercharger is a front-mounted IC radiator (just like in the Audi)... the question is:

Is there enough room available in the engine bay for the intercooler radiator?

Last edited by GoingTooFast; 12-20-2011 at 12:07 PM..
Appreciate 0
      12-19-2011, 10:44 AM   #266
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
4462
Rep
9,160
Posts

Drives: Smog machines
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Most good STI power gains are done by ditching the TMIC and switching to a FMIC with more capacity. I'd think that this car will likely use a FMIC for either turbo or supercharging. I still wouldn't be surprised to see Toyota use a supercharger and Subie use a turbo.
Appreciate 0
      12-19-2011, 10:59 AM   #267
GoingTooFast
Banned
89
Rep
1,247
Posts

Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Most good STI power gains are done by ditching the TMIC and switching to a FMIC with more capacity. I'd think that this car will likely use a FMIC for either turbo or supercharging. I still wouldn't be surprised to see Toyota use a supercharger and Subie use a turbo.
From a corporate image perspective it does make sense... STI is associated to turbos and TRD to superchargers.

From a pure financial perspective I'm not so sure about that. Don't forget that the supercharged TRD GT86 would be much better than the turbo BRZ STI.

This is a driver's car above everything else.
Appreciate 0
      12-21-2011, 08:14 AM   #268
GoingTooFast
Banned
89
Rep
1,247
Posts

Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

iTrader: (0)

Appreciate 0
      12-21-2011, 08:43 AM   #269
stefan
Brigadier General
stefan's Avatar
No_Country
2347
Rep
4,250
Posts

Drives: M2 Comp
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North

iTrader: (2)

^^ leaving hand on shift lever = credibility killed.
__________________
///M Power
Appreciate 0
      12-22-2011, 08:21 AM   #270
GoingTooFast
Banned
89
Rep
1,247
Posts

Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

iTrader: (0)

Toyota GT 86 TRD Revealed...



Appreciate 0
      12-22-2011, 09:19 AM   #271
Red Bread
Major General
United_States
4462
Rep
9,160
Posts

Drives: Smog machines
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Austin, TX

iTrader: (0)

Damn! That looks much better. I originally didn't see the E86 M Coupe similarities, but now they're hard to miss. Of course the E86 was a copy of earlier Datsuns, so I guess it's just the Japanese stealing their design back.
Appreciate 0
      12-22-2011, 09:50 AM   #272
kyleb350
Brigadier General
kyleb350's Avatar
United_States
422
Rep
4,709
Posts

Drives: '21 X3MC
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Milwaukee

iTrader: (6)

^^Now that is nice
Appreciate 0
      12-22-2011, 01:50 PM   #273
jaf89f
Second Lieutenant
United_States
34
Rep
283
Posts

Drives: 2008 128i
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: St. Louis, MO

iTrader: (0)

"According to one report, Toyota is also prepping a TRD supercharger for the 2.0-liter engine." - From the short article posted by GoingToFast

That will be awesome, wonder how long it will be after the first model is up for sale that the TRD version with supercharger will be out.
Appreciate 0
      12-22-2011, 02:00 PM   #274
antoine@lutzperformance
Registered
1
Rep
3
Posts

Drives: BMW 135i 2009
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Tampa, FL

iTrader: (0)

things sick!
Appreciate 0
      12-23-2011, 08:44 AM   #275
GoingTooFast
Banned
89
Rep
1,247
Posts

Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaf89f View Post
"According to one report, Toyota is also prepping a TRD supercharger for the 2.0-liter engine." - From the short article posted by GoingToFast

That will be awesome, wonder how long it will be after the first model is up for sale that the TRD version with supercharger will be out.
The Toyobaru's engine (4U-GSE and FA20 are Toyota and Subaru's monikers, respectively) has a high compression ratio at 12.5:1 which could potentially present a problem to non-intercooled supercharging. However, the ESS Tuning Stage I SuperCharger kit for the E92 M3 is a very good example of how it can be done without any problems. In fact, the S65 V8 engine from BMW has also a high compression ratio at 12.0:1, and yet, even without intercooling it manages to deliver (on stock internals):

Horsepower on 91AKI/95RON: 535 SAE (30% gain over stock)
Horsepower on 93AKI/98RON: 550 SAE (33% gain over stock)
Torque on 91AKI/95RON: 370ft/lbs
Torque on 93AKI/98RON: 380ft/lbs

with a boost pressure of ONLY 5 PSI (0.3 bar)!


In the Toyobaru, 30-33% power gain over stock translates into 256 - 262hp! So, it means that using a boost pressure in the vicinity of 5.0 - 5.5psi the Toyobaru can do it away with the need for an intercooler and all the associated pipework, hence all the space constraints!!!


Just to give you a taste of the thing (ESS Tuning Stage II E92 M3 SuperCharger kit w/ intercooler, boost pressure @ 6.5psi)...




ESS Tuning Stage I E92 M3 SuperCharger kit w/o intercooler, boost pressure @ 5psi:


Last edited by GoingTooFast; 12-23-2011 at 10:56 AM..
Appreciate 0
      12-23-2011, 10:31 AM   #276
GoingTooFast
Banned
89
Rep
1,247
Posts

Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

iTrader: (0)

^^ This supercharger is a Vortech V-3SI centrifugal type supercharger (which is different from Eaton's roots type superchargers):


Appreciate 0
      12-23-2011, 11:03 AM   #277
M3WC
Brigadier General
3639
Rep
3,241
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: ...location...location

iTrader: (0)

If Toyota uses a supercharger that is another huge fail. Just like the Scion badge in the US.
Appreciate 0
      12-23-2011, 11:14 AM   #278
M3Bahn
Lieutenant
M3Bahn's Avatar
321
Rep
483
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: ATL

iTrader: (0)

These cars are the best thing that has happened in the sports car market since the 240z.
__________________
The journey is the reward.
Appreciate 0
      12-23-2011, 12:29 PM   #279
Crimson92
Smiling Politely
Crimson92's Avatar
United_States
1380
Rep
29,118
Posts

Drives: Like a boss
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Whales Vagina

iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBlack5OC View Post
If Toyota uses a supercharger that is another huge fail. Just like the Scion badge in the US.
care to explain why?
__________________
Quote:
Some people are like slinkies...not really good for much but you can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs"
Appreciate 0
      12-25-2011, 02:48 PM   #280
GoingTooFast
Banned
89
Rep
1,247
Posts

Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

iTrader: (0)

The Toyota Sports 800 was the first and up until now the only rwd boxer engined (0.8 liter 2-cylinder, 580kg curb weight ) Toyota . That's the Toyobaru heritage:

Appreciate 0
      12-26-2011, 05:47 AM   #281
GoingTooFast
Banned
89
Rep
1,247
Posts

Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAPSGOD View Post
In this picture it looks alright. The roof is a nice touch for a sub-$30k car. Too bad a bunch of spoiled high school kids will wrap this around a pole while trying to drift across an intersection.
Are you saying that this car should have a higher price tag, so only SOME spoiled high school kids, that otherwise will be driving a 340hp 1M or any of the more powerful daddy's cars, will 'wrap this around a pole while trying to drift across an intersection'?!

Do you really beleive in 'with greater power and price tag comes greater responsability' theory as far as 'spoiled high school' kids is concerned?!
Appreciate 0
      12-26-2011, 12:52 PM   #282
GoingTooFast
Banned
89
Rep
1,247
Posts

Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAPSGOD View Post
No, I'm saying it's a shame that will happen. Calm down bro
What makes you say that I'm not calm?!

I just don't understand why do you say it will happen in a different fashion from, say, a 335d?!

It won't!
Appreciate 0
      12-26-2011, 01:01 PM   #283
M3_WC
Brigadier General
1040
Rep
3,622
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: CA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingTooFast View Post
I just don't understand why do you say it will happen in a different fashion from, say, a 335d?!

It won't!
Because there will be many many many more teenagers driving this Scion vs a 335d, 1M, etc.
Appreciate 0
      12-26-2011, 01:10 PM   #284
GoingTooFast
Banned
89
Rep
1,247
Posts

Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3_WC View Post
Because there will be many many many more teenagers driving this Scion vs a 335d, 1M, etc.
I don't remember the Miata being EVER considered a dangerous car in the hands of 'spoiled high school' kids. In fact, it was a tremendous sales success.

So please, try to keep it down to earth!
Appreciate 0
      12-26-2011, 02:00 PM   #285
GoingTooFast
Banned
89
Rep
1,247
Posts

Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.

iTrader: (0)

The 1M will be a WAY more dangerous in the hands of 'spoiled high school' kids than the Toyobaru will ever be!
Appreciate 0
      12-26-2011, 03:24 PM   #286
Year's_End
Lieutenant General
Year's_End's Avatar
United_States
1112
Rep
12,442
Posts

Drives: 2020 Shelby GT350
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingTooFast View Post
I don't remember the Miata being EVER considered a dangerous car in the hands of 'spoiled high school' kids. In fact, it was a tremendous sales success.

So please, try to keep it down to earth!
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoingTooFast View Post
The 1M will be a WAY more dangerous in the hands of 'spoiled high school' kids than the Toyobaru will ever be!
You're so adamant ITT lol
__________________
Past: '08 E92 335i|ZPP|ZSP|6AT
Past: '15 Mustang GT|401A|PP|6MT
Current: '20 Shelby GT350|6MT
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:39 PM.




f30post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST