06-10-2019, 03:15 PM | #1 |
Second Lieutenant
137
Rep 296
Posts |
CSF IC disappointment - Wagner question?
Hi all,
I have a mild tune on my F36 435d - 360hp / 720Nm - the top end is kind of low - just the nature of tuners around here unfortunately (central europe). So I was thinking Im going to help things around by putting new IC in - heard good things about the CSF and that it can easily boost HP - the video many of you have seen from Evolve . Easy HP up top. There was one comment I read on the IC thread here which talked about bad lag - but it was on single turbo setup so I thought Ill be fine. Well today I got in the car. First thing - it sounded better - but maybe thats just me thinking . When I did a bit of sporty driving though I could feel that I lack the push into the seat I got with the stock IC - it just wasnt there. This was then confirmed in my 0-100km and 1/4 mile runs. Stock: 0-100km 4.3-4.6s 1/4 mile 12.40-12.60 - both depends if the LC engages and on shifting; 0-100km without LC 5.1s With CSF IC:0-100km 4.8-4.9s (without full LC - so vs 4.6 stock), 1/4 mile 12.74, 0-100km without LC 5.5-5.6s well not the results I was expecting. I knew the IC was bigger, but I didnt expect this - this is attrotious result. You can clearly see it on a Dragy app - the G push comes later on the graphs. Might post something later. Anyhow. 1) Did anybody else experience anything similiar? Or is this just the nature of the CSF IC? 2) Could it be that the IC was not properly put in and that is causing the issue? If so - how would I find out? 3) I am thinking of swapping in the Wagner - but don't want to experience the same :/ or basically on benefit over the stock. Thoughts? Thanks a ton! EDIT: Updated results at the bottom of this page Last edited by luke1990; 06-13-2019 at 02:38 PM.. |
06-10-2019, 04:09 PM | #3 | |
Second Lieutenant
137
Rep 296
Posts |
Quote:
The car accelerates fine after it overcomes the first hurdle. This to me indicates lag in the IC rather than leak no? The leak I think would affect it the whole way. Have a look at this: If you compare the 1/8 to 1/4 time of the last two without full LC - they are identical. This either means there is no problem once it pressurizes, or there is a leak since with IC it should have more a bit more power :/. really dont know Last edited by luke1990; 06-10-2019 at 04:15 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-10-2019, 04:23 PM | #5 |
Brigadier General
4043
Rep 3,549
Posts
Drives: 328d Wagon, M2 Comp, i4 eD35
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA
|
I think if he had a boost leak it'd be larger and more obvious. I really think he's seeing the nature of increasing interior volume and adding more flow restriction.
If you want to rule out lag/boost threshold from a stop you can do a rolling test like maybe 50kmh-130kmh and start in a gear where your rpms aren't really low.
__________________
-328d Wagon Build Log (with helpful reference links)
-My YouTube Channel for some of the best DIYs and in depth information Please don't PM me for suspension recommendations unless interested in paid private consultations. |
Appreciate
1
luke1990137.00 |
06-10-2019, 04:31 PM | #6 |
First Lieutenant
112
Rep 333
Posts |
0.3s drop in 0-60 and noticeable reduction in performance is weird. There is more volume but better flow. Also the car is remapped and has worse acceleration than mine l, which is stock. I think there is something off. The boost leak can be a small one and when the large turbo kicks in the effect is not as evident.
|
Appreciate
1
luke1990137.00 |
06-10-2019, 04:32 PM | #7 | |
Second Lieutenant
137
Rep 296
Posts |
Quote:
Ill do 100-200 pull - this should clear it. Just didnt have space for that yet. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-10-2019, 04:34 PM | #8 | |
Second Lieutenant
137
Rep 296
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-10-2019, 05:03 PM | #11 | |
Second Lieutenant
137
Rep 296
Posts |
Quote:
Ill try to contact Imran - he might have insight. And a remote map with his experince with the CSF might not be bad. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-10-2019, 05:41 PM | #13 |
Major General
6461
Rep 8,524
Posts |
As per my replies on other threads, I understand that the CSF IC has double density fins in the lower (larger) section of the core.
If true (it's not necessarily fact; just what I've heard) this could lead to reduced flow and greater pressure drop through the IC.
__________________
Current : F31 330sD, remapped, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway camber plates, Quaife LSD, Stoptech brakes + Pagid RSL1 pads all round, Weichers front strut brace, Eibach front & rear anti-roll bars, Michelin MP4S.
Last edited by Watsey; 06-11-2019 at 03:47 AM.. |
Appreciate
1
luke1990137.00 |
06-10-2019, 06:00 PM | #14 |
First Lieutenant
112
Rep 333
Posts |
But people see 15ish Hp improvement, without changing the map (see evolve video on this). Wouldn't a reduction in air flow and drop in air pressure make it worse?
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-10-2019, 06:32 PM | #15 |
Lieutenant Colonel
1429
Rep 1,821
Posts |
You don't accelerate only with your peak hp, however.
Then there is also a potential difference on how the tunes are set up. A diesel does not have a fixed air to fuel ratio, so adding more air doesn't always add more power. A diesel running at 17:1 afr, will make the same power as 20:1. Sometimes less when you're trying for more air, due to power losses from trying to spin a turbine uselessly. It depends a lot how the limiters are set up vs. measured air flow, etc. Very multifactorial.
__________________
-2014 328d Wagon, 8HP. Self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs.
-2019 M2 Competition MT, Alpine White. Self-tuned 560hp -2016 Mini Cooper S, MT. Many plans. Others: -E36 328is. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual. Estoril Z3M Coupe. |
Appreciate
1
FaRKle!4043.00 |
06-11-2019, 05:06 AM | #16 | |
Second Lieutenant
137
Rep 296
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-11-2019, 05:09 AM | #17 | |
Second Lieutenant
137
Rep 296
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-11-2019, 06:34 PM | #18 |
Lieutenant Colonel
1429
Rep 1,821
Posts |
Yea, when a breathing hardware mod on a diesel makes a big difference, it just means the tuner is riding the smoke limiter maps. Especially true when you have enough turbo capacity to spare.
__________________
-2014 328d Wagon, 8HP. Self-tuned, 270hp/430ft-lbs.
-2019 M2 Competition MT, Alpine White. Self-tuned 560hp -2016 Mini Cooper S, MT. Many plans. Others: -E36 328is. 2000 Z3 Roady. 2003 VW Jetta TDI Manual. Estoril Z3M Coupe. |
Appreciate
0
|
06-13-2019, 09:16 AM | #19 |
Second Lieutenant
137
Rep 296
Posts |
Hi guys - thought I'd share the results.
I couldn't hear any blowing sound, so went back to the shop to check, they checked the hoses both up and down, ran a diagnostic and it all checked out. We went for a drive and the guy said it just a big turbo "hole" down low. So we swapped back the old IC to be sure and the car went to normal results again. The conclusion thus is that the CSF will create a pretty noticable turbo lag down low which you will feel. Unless you of course you run some aggrisive map on a the small turbo . For your reference I put together some figures using Dragy. I know - every pull is different, but it should give you an idea what's happening. Important to note that the CSF was in +9C degrees. Will test tomorrow again for more comparable results. But CSF is slower down low - significantly very low, and faster up top I like the faster thing top, but that turbo lag kills the enjoyment of daily drive. I'm wondering: 1) If I go for Wagner - I should get some benefits on top, but not as much lag down low - can people with Wagner confirm please? 2) I don't think we can get ATM in mainland Europe right? It should be the best one out there Thanks! |
06-13-2019, 11:29 AM | #20 | ||
Brigadier General
4043
Rep 3,549
Posts
Drives: 328d Wagon, M2 Comp, i4 eD35
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Bay Area, CA
|
Quote:
Quote:
2) You can email them at atm@atmspeedshop.com and see if they ship to Europe. The ATM will have more lag than the EVO 2 Comp though.
__________________
-328d Wagon Build Log (with helpful reference links)
-My YouTube Channel for some of the best DIYs and in depth information Please don't PM me for suspension recommendations unless interested in paid private consultations. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
06-13-2019, 01:58 PM | #21 |
Major General
6461
Rep 8,524
Posts |
ATM will ship direct to the UK (I asked a few weeks ago) so will almost certainly ship to mainland Europe.
__________________
Current : F31 330sD, remapped, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway camber plates, Quaife LSD, Stoptech brakes + Pagid RSL1 pads all round, Weichers front strut brace, Eibach front & rear anti-roll bars, Michelin MP4S.
|
Appreciate
0
|
06-13-2019, 02:03 PM | #22 | |
Major General
6461
Rep 8,524
Posts |
Quote:
Thanks for taking the time to log the data and share it. Very insightful
__________________
Current : F31 330sD, remapped, Ohlins Road & Track, Millway camber plates, Quaife LSD, Stoptech brakes + Pagid RSL1 pads all round, Weichers front strut brace, Eibach front & rear anti-roll bars, Michelin MP4S.
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
|
|