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      07-23-2014, 11:52 AM   #45
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V10 M5 was sweet. One cylinder per MPG you got.
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      07-23-2014, 12:23 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by modkrazy View Post
V10 M5 was sweet. One cylinder per MPG you got.
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      07-23-2014, 01:53 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
The one thing that is clear is when I got into the e46 M3 it was special.....when I got into the e92 it was over the top special to the point when I test drove 997 911s I knew it was more of a sports car but there was not some HUGE difference as far as the "it" factor.

Test drive an F8x and there was no emotion in me, no matter how much I wanted there to be. The e9x were the first cars EVER with a DCT rated to 9k, followed by the 458 and now the 991 GT3. THATS IT.

So between the trans and engine, it's special. But just as a P car gets beat by GTR, a F8x will beat a e9x, it's just that I don't buy my care based on what's the fastest, if I did, I'd never have looked at an M ever. Again, to each their own.

Cheers,
e46e93
Well said.
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      07-23-2014, 04:00 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modkrazy View Post
V10 M5 was sweet. One cylinder per MPG you got.
lol
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      07-23-2014, 04:31 PM   #49
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I'll just leave this article by Motor Trend right here:

"The 2015 BMW M3 and M4 share a 3.0-liter twin-turbo inline-six that is officially rated for 425 hp at 5500 rpm and 406 lb-ft of torque at 1850 rpm. After running the M3 on a dyno owned by K&N Engineering, Motor Trend came up with rear-wheel outputs of 379 hp at 6600 rpm and 378 lb-ft of torque at 4300 rpm."
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      07-23-2014, 05:04 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
I loved the sound too, don't get me wrong. I also happen to like the way they look. But you take the sound away and what are you left with? I mean you could take it to the track, but that's not exactly ideal is it. So it's not really great for the track, and as a daily, it doesn't make much sense either. Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of the thing (still one of my favorite cars), but in practical terms, it just doesn't work.



Agreed. M6 is such a beautiful car inside and out, just unfortunately too heavy for me. I completely understand about special engines, don't get me wrong. It's just the formula didn't work at all for the M5 IMHO. And I don't really mind SMG, if you learn how to drive it properly it's not that bad. I actually happen to like the kick in the back that the DCT can't really do. It's just horribly unreliable.

As I explained in the post to Ezio, on paper it's a mouth watering proposition. But in reality (apart from the sound of course), the car just didn't make much sense to me. Add to the fact that it's nowhere as reliable as the E9x M3 (especially if you have SMG) and it gets low teens in fuel consumption, and you can see why they can be had for $25k.
the car would only make sense to me if i had a lot of money and was just buying the car for the hell of it. then i would get a e60 M5.
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      07-23-2014, 06:19 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3/4 life View Post
I'll just leave this article by Motor Trend right here:

"The 2015 BMW M3 and M4 share a 3.0-liter twin-turbo inline-six that is officially rated for 425 hp at 5500 rpm and 406 lb-ft of torque at 1850 rpm. After running the M3 on a dyno owned by K&N Engineering, Motor Trend came up with rear-wheel outputs of 379 hp at 6600 rpm and 378 lb-ft of torque at 4300 rpm."
This indicates a 12% driveline loss, which seems low. Around 15-18% is normal which would put actual output in the 440-450hp range.
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      07-23-2014, 11:31 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
This indicates a 12% driveline loss, which seems low. Around 15-18% is normal which would put actual output in the 440-450hp range.
This test also included a 2011+ e92 m3 that made 309 whp run at the same time as the f8x.

Unfortunately, this is an awd dyno and it was run in awd mode. That's why both m3's made about 10-15% less power than they have on any other dyno

If you watch the vid you can see all 4 wheels spinning.

Fail for sure



Look at the front rollers spinning at 525 and 605.

Dumb, it's supposed to be run only on the rear wheels and in 2wd mode.

Last edited by Black Gold; 07-23-2014 at 11:39 PM..
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      07-24-2014, 06:54 AM   #53
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I'm still in love with the looks of the e92, but the new m is still a good looking car
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      07-30-2014, 09:28 PM   #54
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I took a good long look at the new M4 and couldn't find that spark I had when I first laid my eyes on my E93. Even after driving it, I felt empty, just missed the 8200 redline. Missed playing around with the revs and getting that ridiculous surge of power when dropping a gear or two on the highway.

There were no butterflies in my stomach.

It must be the V8 clouding my judgement, but I can seriously say that an E9x with a supercharger is truly "The Ultimate Driving Machine"
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      08-01-2014, 12:09 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobS
I'm still in love with the looks of the e92, but the new m is still a good looking car
I too have been close to the new one in Munich and at the dealer.
It's as big as an e39! = not itching to get inside it...
Not really pumped to drive the dealer's DCT ... It may take a long while to get the opportunity to drive the 6 speed :-/
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      08-01-2014, 08:31 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330indy View Post
I too have been close to the new one in Munich and at the dealer.
It's as big as an e39! = not itching to get inside it...
Not really pumped to drive the dealer's DCT ... It may take a long while to get the opportunity to drive the 6 speed :-/
We have a new M at the dealer in town....hm, might need to go for a test drive...
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      08-01-2014, 08:33 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 330indy View Post
I too have been close to the new one in Munich and at the dealer.
It's as big as an e39! = not itching to get inside it...
Not really pumped to drive the dealer's DCT ... It may take a long while to get the opportunity to drive the 6 speed :-/
Same. I can't find a 6MT anywhere close to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by happos2 View Post
We have a new M at the dealer in town....hm, might need to go for a test drive...
Why not right? If you don't like it, then so be it. But you might come away more impressed than you thought you'd be. Might as well find out for yourself
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      08-07-2014, 05:53 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
I know there has been a lot of controversy surrounding the new ///M3. I'm beginning to realize the short comings of having a coupe (I own an e92 M3)---mainly it is no good for rear facing car seats and with a two year old at home the wife's car is the one that is always used, but with plans for another kid, I'm just resigned to the fact the coupe may have to go.

With this is mind, and all the glowing reviews by a few race car drivers, I called my SA and asked her if they had any ///M3 builds available, she said she had one left. So I after getting pricing from her, I headed over to the dealership for a test drive and to put down the deposit.

Steering: very precise. Return to center was good, and there was a little less play off center than my e92 ///M3 but between local road and highway test drive up to 90mph, any talk of this new steering being that much better----no idea. I'm not a professional race car driver, but no stranger to the track either. To each is their own I guess....steering is probably better, but not night and day, though at the limit on a track, the small difference probably stands out more.

Seats: they were really nice, but can't say there are that much nicer than the current ones. Different. Some worse, some better. I like the shell look and feel, but miss the bottom extenders......to each their own I guess.

Throttle Response: very good, much better than I expected from an FI engine. Is it as good as the S65? No. Will one notice the difference or care from day to day in 99% of it's driving including track time? Probably not. I love the throttle response of the S65 and it was my biggest concern of BMW ///M going to FI, but I must admit, the experience was not muted and I stand corrected, no issues here.

Suspension: honestly, I don't notice a huge difference from my 2011 EDC system and this one. COMFORT is nice but stiff as it should be and SPORT+ is stiff as hell but nice. Didn't try SPORT. I have read so many reviews about how it's so much better and I don't care what anyone says and all the articles on how much quicker it responds, on day to day driving, there is no real perceivable difference. I guess track time if you were a pro driver and put this system on one F8x and fitted the old system on another F8x (which wouldn't even be possible) then we could accurately compare, and then maybe we would find a difference in lapse times.

DCT vs DCT: I drive an e92 with M-DCT and the test car also came with DCT and really there was no huge difference except for one: the F8x felt more like an automatic, even in MANUAL mode. Even the appearance was disappointing. Instead of a leather boot around the gear knob, it was just the classic M knob from the e92/e60/F10 stuck on a plastic stick that ran down into the car, exactly like a standard BMW automatic gear shift. It also felt like crap when placed into reverse. Instead of a solid rubber "bang" feel like on the older SMGs and DCTs, it bang like some old GM auto. Really, really disappointed. However, in daily operation of just "rowing thru the gears" if blind folded and using paddle shifters, I'd have a tough time discerning between the two if both in similar settings. As a manufal guy who converted, as I said with the last generation, DCT in these cars is just a great fit.

Low RPM vs High RPM: the one area that really impressed me is that this engine really pulls hard to redline. In fact, it felt S65 like. VERY impressed. At lower RPM the F80 felt great, but honestly, I felt the S65 did fine around town even shifting around 3k or so.......but F8x was an improvement, you cannot argue with that.


Highway Power / High Speed: I hear all the complaints about no low end torque on the S65, I don't agree, but I hear and understand them to a point. With this in mind I wanted to see if at highway speed this car was better than the S65 and creating separation without down shifting. To be honest, I was disappointed. I expected a bigger difference, but it was a small one. At 70mph, you hit the gas on the S65 in 7th and it just goes, as is the case with the S55 in 7th, except here is where the lag thing becomes obvious. Not enough to make it an issue, but enough to eat up some of the advantage the S55 has. I know the stats say otherwise, but reality said otherwise......

Overall: something is missing. This car looks killer from the outside and checks all the boxes but comes short in the biggest box of all: a soul and being an ///M car----and its just not that much faster in real life to even come close to making up for that. The details of how this car "feels" is missing, even the DCT seems to have been softened. The M3 has always been somewhere between sporty sedan and sports car, always leaning more to the latter (at least that is how I feel). But now, it's definitely closer to the former.

See this car feels more like a planted 335iS than an M3. Now being compared to a 335iS in every other situation would be a compliment, but in this one it's not. It reminds me of the 335i vs e46 M3 comparisons back in the day; I know because I bought one of the first e92 335i's because my work situation had me driving 21k /yr and did not want to trash an e46 M with that kind of mileage. However, I always looked at every e46 M3 that I saw with envy and regret. My car was faster, at every speed (with only a light Dinan tube) and got twice the gas mileage, but something was missing. Before even turning the car on, you sat in an e46///M3 and new something was different.

Going from my e92 ///M3 to the F80 was just like going from a e46 M to a tuned 335i----numbers all say its faster but something is just missing. To be honest, I didn't even feel a big performance difference between the F8x and mine. Maybe how you get the performance is different. Perhaps if the F80 had been the e92 (in that it followed the e46) this would be a better comparison, but the e92 just set the bar too close to sport car in feel. It's like comparing a GT3 to a GTR----the paper says the GTR is the car to own, but I for one would rather drive the GT3.

Will they sell a ton more of of the F8x? Yup, it absolutely appeals to a wider audience. Would I own one? Yup, I would absolutely lease, not buy one. Would I give up my e92 for one? No way in hell. Every M has always had one thing in common: a soul. It never was the fastest in class, yet always was on top because there was something special about it, the way it talked to and made the driver feel. The F8x does not, and there is something missing. After a bunch of glowing reviews by pro drivers and non-pro I expected to be putting the deposit down and saying good bye to the e92, instead I drove home and told the wife we need a plan B, she laughed and said "No problem, we will figure it out".

Cheers,
e46e92
+1 one of the best write up I have read on the subject! Cheers!
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      08-08-2014, 09:20 AM   #59
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Why the sky is not falling. (or: perspective, please) http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=989324
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      08-08-2014, 03:52 PM   #60
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OP, this review is spot on. I have driven this car and i agree with most of what you are saying.
I was seriously considering to upgrade my e92m3 to F80 m4, but i am glad i did not. Wait a minute, actually i did.
A few weeks ago we supercharged my m3, installed Ohlins R&T coilovers and i think i will keep this car for a long long time. Its that much better now

Last edited by Groundpilot; 08-08-2014 at 03:57 PM..
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      08-08-2014, 07:26 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Groundpilot
OP, this review is spot on. I have driven this car and i agree with most of what you are saying.
I was seriously considering to upgrade my e92m3 to F80 m4, but i am glad i did not. Wait a minute, actually i did.
A few weeks ago we supercharged my m3, installed Ohlins R&T coilovers and i think i will keep this car for a long long time. Its that much better now
Niiiiicccccceeeee. I'm a track whore, so no S/C for me

Cheers,
e46e92
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      08-09-2014, 01:35 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46e92love View Post
The one thing that is clear is when I got into the e46 M3 it was special.....when I got into the e92 it was over the top special to the point when I test drove 997 911s I knew it was more of a sports car but there was not some HUGE difference as far as the "it" factor.

Test drive an F8x and there was no emotion in me, no matter how much I wanted there to be. The e9x were the first cars EVER with a DCT rated to 9k, followed by the 458 and now the 991 GT3. THATS IT.

So between the trans and engine, it's special. But just as a P car gets beat by GTR, a F8x will beat a e9x, it's just that I don't buy my cars based on what's the fastest, if I did, I'd never have looked at an M ever. Again, to each their own.

Cheers,
e46e93
Exactly the same experiences I had coming from the e46. I'm just not feeling the F80 on the same level.
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