[Skyhigh]

I know many of you do occasional race tracks - I am considering finally getting into that as there is a convenient track not too far away. Should I be worried though about doing it with a Stage 2+ and xHP Stage 3 ...? Anything in jeopardy (incl driveshafts, etc.)?

I will make sure to look into the various cooling enhancement options in MHD...

[B58 _gran_coupe_]

My experience with stage 2+ and xhp stage 3 in Florida has been road based. Temperature management has been my biggest concern because it's anywhere between 70 and 105 Fahrenheit here. I think you live in Northern Europe so that would be of lesser concern. I have experienced some light wheeping of my diff from launching but aside that it's been fine for 20k miles or more.

I know you're a smart guy so as long as your car is maintained well and you drive with a degree of mechanical sympathy... don't bang it into 2nd at 130mph etc, then you'll be fine.

I'd set your mhd up to read oil temp and pressure, fuel pressure, fuel trims maybe transmission temp too and keep a casual eye on the important stuff

Note, I never use LC or make full bore launches and my diff wheeps..take from that what you will

[DieselDuck]

Your ZF8 will get whiny (but technically no problem at all), but especially in North EU temps I wouldn't be too concerned in terms of IAT's and oil temps.

Make sure you are on proper tyres, proper tyre pressure, good brakepads and brake fluid (stock brakepads and brakefluid are NOT up to the task of tracking), maybe get an alignment done, etc, those things are probably more important as long as your engine is always properly serviced on (before) time.

I'm not sure what fuel you have to your disposal but as 20-50hp probably won't make much difference on most tracks, you could flash the "lowest" octane map i.e. Stage 2+ 93oct/98ron and fill it up with 95oct/102ron or 93oct/98ron with a bit of E85 to guaruantee your engine is really happy.

Personally when I've really sent the car in the past I had zero issues, temps stayed fine too. Not sure if this MHD sport cooling option that I use contributes to it but I think it might. I noticed the harder I push the car, that sometimes, the oil temps seems to go even lower than when I'm driving normal.

It also doesn't harm that after a few laps, you do a cooldown lap and then let the car cool down for a bit in between stints.

Next month I'll be tracking again also, let's have fun and keep it safe

[Skyhigh]

Well… I am clearly not intending to upgrade brakes and tires solely for a few hours of tracking, at least initially… I will hope the stock M Sport brakes are M Sport for a reason

Good to know about the gearbox…. Whine considered normal then and disappears on its own? (Remember reading a thread where someone complained about a whine during/after sporty driving).

I typically drive Stage 2+ RON 98 with a tad of E for minimum corrections. Clearly I can increase the E content for the sake of tracking.

[DieselDuck]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

Well… I am clearly not intending to upgrade brakes and tires solely for a few hours of tracking, at least initially… I will hope the stock M Sport brakes are M Sport for a reason

Good to know about the gearbox…. Whine considered normal then and disappears on its own? (Remember reading a thread where someone complained about a whine during/after sporty driving).

I typically drive Stage 2+ RON 98 with a tad of E for minimum corrections. Clearly I can increase the E content for the sake of tracking.

I see. I would strongly discourage you going on track with stock brake pads and fluid. Yes the stock M Sport calipers and discs are sufficient, but the stock pads and brake fluid are definitely not. I talk out of experience, they will fade 100% on track, it just isn't safe. I'm not the only person who experienced this in my circle with the m sport brakes so it's not a me problem. Even on really fast road driving (obviously on remote area's) I would get fading (especialy when running more power). Proper pads and fluid fixes the problem pretty much completely.

Yep the ZF8 gearbox whine is normal, you're good. It comes and goes when pushing the car, had it with multiple cars I driven sporty with ZF8 box and never had any issues or failing gearbox.

[J3Vr6]

I agree with DieselDuck . I've done the short track at Homestead Miami Speedway, and I can absolutely confirm that you need to upgrade your brake pads with track-grade pads and go to a track brake fluid. Regardless of having the M Sport discs and calipers, you'll be doing some pretty intense and hard braking at speeds well above normal road use. Your brake fluid will cook and your pads will severely start to fade... FAST. You will first notice that your car shudders at hard braking when they begin to fade. You do NOT want to lose braking at the track.

As inconvenient you think replacing your pads and brake fluid, it's much more inconvenient to meet at wall at 130+ mph.

[WrxToBeamerGuy]

My only concern for you would be timing corrections once you start to heat soak. Stage 2+ can be pretty aggressive timing wise. Can you splash in some e85 or does the track have higher octane non leaded gas available?

[Skyhigh]

No e85 in the country, but I do usually add a splash of race fuel (100% E + lubricant additives) to my RON 98 to address corrections. And I certainly will conservatively add more of it before going on the track.

It will get quite hot I anticipate, despite subjectively low ambient temp, as the track is relatively small (2,3 km) with plenty of turns and slopes.

[charlie fairmont]

Not to pile on, but unless you're really babying it, that short, tight, multi-elevation track will smoke street tires and stock brakes very quickly. I understand you don't want to spend the extra $ but assuming your track days are the somewhat standard ~4 15-20 minute sessions per day, for 2 back-to-back days) the street tires you showed up with will be toast by end of the weekend and you're going to need new tires anyway. The same will likely be true with your pads unless you cook the fluid first and have to stop early. All of that will be made worse with the car running at 2.5. An already big, heavy having to stop from an even higher speed won't do your street equipment any favors. Just don't want to see you waste a weekend, travel time, hotel bills, etc.

[Skyhigh]

Given that approx 70% of the braking is delivered from the front, would it be sufficient to upgrade just the front pads for the occasional tracking? (M Sport brakes)

Again I am not intending to turn this into a track-racing vehicle - just enjoy an occasional set of laps. I find it a bit hard to believe I need to take into account new tires, pads and fluid after every track day.
I have never looked into it, but I am happy to look into higher grade brake fluid for the next change, which is anyway due in September.

[J3Vr6]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

Given that approx 70% of the braking is delivered from the front, would it be sufficient to upgrade just the front pads for the occasional tracking? (M Sport brakes)

First question: No. front and rear brakes work as a system, especially at the track. You might as well swap out for track pads on both front and rear.

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

Again I am not intending to turn this into a track-racing vehicle - just enjoy an occasional set of laps. I find it a bit hard to believe I need to take into account new tires, pads and fluid after every track day.
I have never looked into it, but I am happy to look into higher grade brake fluid for the next change, which is anyway due in September.

First off, replacing pads and brake fluid every event isn't the end of the world and should be your first thought when considering tracking this car. I want to be clear: You don't need to THROW AWAY your pads when you take them out to replace with track pads. I know people who will put them back in after a track event. Secondly, when you're looking at brake fluid, bear in mind that track brake fluid is not meant for street use. It's too thick and will sludge. It's only meant for the track where the high heat keeps it fluid.

As for tires... Yes, you may get away with keeping your tires after an event, but if you do this semi occasionally, you should look into a dedicated set of wheels with 200 tread wear extreme summer tires that you put on for track days.

Again, swapping pads and replacing the brake fluid isn't the end of the world.

[Skyhigh]

So what is the overall experience with EBC yellow or blue pads?
I have had great experience with EBC to date on my other car, but not the yellow/blue ones.

Also - I keep experiencing the same thing with the stock M Sport setup - after a few braking from higher speed (220-250 km/h), I get very noticeable vibration in the steering wheel during braking with an associated noise! This slowly goes away as the brakes cool down and I drive some more…. Then it is mainly noticeable during light braking.

Here is how the rotors look like shortly after such braking… look overheated in the middle. Thoughts!? Only under 30 000 km on the discs and pads, I had the same phenomenon already at about 20 000 km.

[Skyhigh]

… just 30-40 km further after some more, (non- to mid-aggressive) braking from 250+ km/h and they look normal again….
There was again some vibration building up but not as much.

I’m puzzled.

[lens]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

… just 30-40 km further after some more, (non- to mid-aggressive) braking from 250+ km/h and they look normal again….
There was again some vibration building up but not as much.

I’m puzzled.

Those rotors are about due to be replaced anyways, once you start seeing the lip on them like yours, it's pretty much due.

I have a hybrid street/track setup on my car, I run stoptech sport pads and blank rotors, with stoptech stainless steel brake lines and ATE200 brake fluid.

I believe your rotors were also starting to overheat (most likely due to wear as well)

[Skyhigh]

Wear!? At 20 000 km street use!? On Brembo rotors? Are you serious?
The thickness of the discs is almost as new. Any warping aside, thickness-wise they should be able to do at least 2 sets of pads and my first set is not even 1/3rd done yet.

So it is definitely not wear that is the problem.

[lens]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

Wear!? At 20 000 km street use!? On Brembo rotors? Are you serious?
The thickness of the discs is almost as new. Any warping aside, thickness-wise they should be able to do at least 2 sets of pads and my first set is not even 1/3rd done yet.

So it is definitely not wear that is the problem.

Your rotors look like they have more than 20,000km of wear TBH lol

But as per vibrations that you feel, it's due to overheating and pad material onto the rotors, thats why you have the blueish tint in the middle of the rotors. The vibrations go away because you cool down the rotors and pads,

I don't know what track you go to, but maybe look into brake pads that are more 60-70/40-30 track/street hybrid, they normally have a higher temperature limit, but the cons are you do have to heat up the pads a bit to make them work.

[Skyhigh]

No tracks (yet). Just a relaxed German motorway trip occasionally with speeds mostly under 250 km/h.

[Wires]

Originally Posted by Skyhigh

Wear!? At 20 000 km street use!? On Brembo rotors? Are you serious?
The thickness of the discs is almost as new. Any warping aside, thickness-wise they should be able to do at least 2 sets of pads and my first set is not even 1/3rd done yet.

So it is definitely not wear that is the problem.

How bad are the lips on both sides? My rotors @75,000km look less worn than those. Keep in mind, when you are stomping at the brakes at 250kph at the track, you cannot use "only has 20,000 km" as a reason anymore. Tracking the car puts an extreme amount of stress and wear on the brake components.

The picture with the blue was you glazed the pads and rotors due to them overheating. That would cause the vibrations that you are feeling as well as reduces their life.

If you want to track the car, you gotta pay to play! Just saying!

[Skyhigh]

It is quite hard keep answering questions when people simply don’t read the thread but only the last post(s).

- The car has not been tracked yet unless you consider German motorways tracking

- the rotors on the last photos have under 30 000 km. There is practically no lip on them - some surface rust at the edges, due to low mileage and periods of sitting in the garage. The same vibrations occurred at about 20 000 km though (after some subsequent braking from high speed of about 250 km/h) and slowly disappeared in time

- Visually the pads are I’d say 70% thick... and these are the first pads. Never heard of a rotor being worn faster than (standard) pads.

[Skyhigh]

Here some close-ups… if you don’t see much of a lip - it is not the photo

[Wires]

What about the inside of the pads? My last set had 50% remaining on the outsides, but the insides were 95% gone.

Vibrations under light braking could be due to poor pad lubrication during install. Pull the calipers and pads, clean and apply copper paste to all metal to metal contact points.

And if you've never tracked that car, BUT you have glazed the rotors like that, you are INSANELY hard on the brakes. That's some stomp on the pedal and overheat the rotor deal. That one is 100% operator error. Just saying...

[lens]

I agree with what Wires is saying.

Normally after a track day with my car, the rotors don't look like yours (I'm pretty easy on my brakes anyways)

I would say try the track day with your current setup and slowly find the limit and then send us pics of how the rotors and tires look like after.