BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion
 
European Auto Source
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-29-2013, 12:24 PM   #89
nicknaz
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2012 Z4 35i
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Diego CA

Posts: 4,030
iTrader: (0)

I think BMW has always made and continues to make the best sporty commuter cars out there so to me, the brand is still going strong and I'll likely continue to drive a 3 series sedan type car.

I don't think BMW makes sports cars well at all so I won't be driving one of those from BMW in the future
nicknaz is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-29-2013, 12:48 PM   #90
mlambert890
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2008 M3 DCT Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: United States

Posts: 108
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicknaz View Post
I think BMW has always made and continues to make the best sporty commuter cars out there so to me, the brand is still going strong and I'll likely continue to drive a 3 series sedan type car.

I don't think BMW makes sports cars well at all so I won't be driving one of those from BMW in the future
They don't make sports cars at all really. Only the Z line could even be considered for that category. The Ms are all clearly "hot sedan" GTs and always have been.

I'm old enough to vividly remember the E30 M3 and the original M6 when they were brand spanking new and a good buddy of mine owned both. For all of the winsome nostalgia, in their day they were no different than their equivalents today. ALL cars were lighter back then and NO cars had tons of electronic assist. Safety regulations allowed the former to be possible and the latter didnt exist yet.

I've driven the F30 and I honestly think people are just massively overstating the difference, then using mag "evidence" as confirmation bias.

Just as with Audi, the electric steering feels weird at low speeds. That's pretty much it. I am sure it will evolve with time and, the good news, is a lot can probably done to it with just software.

Jumping into an EPS for the first time always causes controversy. Was exactly the same with Audi and Porsche and, back in the day, was the same with power steering and ABS. These debates are endlessly recycled, but progress marches on, new people find new things to like, and some choose to jump off the train and stick with some old thing that is comfortable to them.

I have friends who consider nearly any car made after 1979 a complete, disconnected, poorly built POS. Everyone draws their "line" in a different place, then finds like minded folks to help "prove" that their line is "right"
mlambert890 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-29-2013, 01:06 PM   #91
Desert_Fox
Drop-Top Turbo
 
Desert_Fox's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 335is E93
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 441
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Send a message via MSN to Desert_Fox Send a message via Skype™ to Desert_Fox
BMW by far still makes the best cars out of the 'big 3' luxury German marques (I don't count Porsche because they're often a price bracket ahead). Go drive a new Audi or Mercedes and tell me their cars are more fun.
__________________
Current 2013 BMW 335is E93 [Mineral White] [Coral Red] DCT, Premium Pkg, Convenience Pkg, Nav, Heated Seats, HK, BMW Apps
Retired 2007 BMW 335i E93 [Sparking Graphite][Coral Red] Steptronic, Premium Pkg, Sport Pkg, Navigation, Active Steering, Logic 7, Comfort Access, CF Trim
Desert_Fox is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-29-2013, 02:44 PM   #92
Black Prinz
Private
 
Drives: 09E82N51
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Poconos, PA

Posts: 76
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
No. BMW reacts to the ever changing customer and progress within the industry.
It is the customer that drives the decisions in the auto industry and manufacturers have to react to the changes.

Whether in customers expectations or in diminishing features , manufacturers have no choice but to react to what happens.
Then, Welcome to the Chinese who have & will dictate the future direction of BMW (& Audi/MB/GM/Volvo, etc.)
__________________
Halogen Hal the Black Prinz
09E82N51
Black Prinz is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-29-2013, 03:23 PM   #93
GeeRam
Captain
 
GeeRam's Avatar
 
Drives: 135i Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London,UK

Posts: 895
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert_Fox View Post
BMW by far still makes the best cars out of the 'big 3' luxury German marques (I don't count Porsche because they're often a price bracket ahead). Go drive a new Audi or Mercedes and tell me their cars are more fun.
True, but what worries me is that as the vast majority of people buying Audi/MB's clearly don't car about this, BMW bosses probably think it's OK to keep dumbing down BMW's to a similar level as 90% of BMW buyers (worldwide not just USA) probably equally don't care either......
__________________
2011 135i M-Sport Coupe DCT ~ Bluewater:Coral Red | BMWP CF spoiler & BMWPE | Birds B1 suspension | Forge FMIC | Hartge footrest | Alufelgen CS7 & Pirelli P Zero

2012 Harley Davidson Softail Slim ~ lots of mods
GeeRam is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      05-30-2013, 05:37 AM   #94
Budhak0n
New Member
 
Drives: X
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Southwest Florida

Posts: 10
iTrader: (0)

Ok on some things the company has it right.... BMW is very good at molding offerings to their target BUYER while still gaining accretion by attraction. In the car game, it's "somewhat" about the deal BUT All about the neighbor SEEING the subject of the deal.
Budhak0n is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-30-2013, 05:39 AM   #95
Budhak0n
New Member
 
Drives: X
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Southwest Florida

Posts: 10
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
True, but what worries me is that as the vast majority of people buying Audi/MB's clearly don't car about this, BMW bosses probably think it's OK to keep dumbing down BMW's to a similar level as 90% of BMW buyers (worldwide not just USA) probably equally don't care either......
Always a fan of random percentages
Budhak0n is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-30-2013, 03:01 PM   #96
davesaddiction
is fast cars
 
davesaddiction's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E90 M3 6MT SSII BPM Stg II
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tulsa

Posts: 1,540
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Black Prinz View Post
Then, Welcome to the Chinese who have & will dictate the future direction of BMW (& Audi/MB/GM/Volvo, etc.)
And they love Buicks. Not a great sign for us enthusiasts...

http://www.ibtimes.com/heres-what-bm...ences-1236205#

I'm going to cry when I hear they're making an M3 Li...

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/06/b...l-for-beijing/

"China is a big country, and so friends who live long distances apart are embracing mobile technology, such as Apple's Facetime, to dine together remotely, typically by hooking up at the same restaurant chain in different cities."

http://www.ibtimes.com/heres-what-bm...ences-1236205#
davesaddiction is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-30-2013, 10:22 PM   #97
rice_bowl
Enlisted Member
 
rice_bowl's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 E60 535i
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Southern California

Posts: 45
iTrader: (1)

BMW is also implementing their Sustainability strategies for long term success. Just did a report on this, a quick Google search shows how this is a huge goal for BMW.

Sustainability is on of the major influences for BMW's transition from the straight 6 engines and sheer driving pleasure into new platforms that are far more fuel efficient and safer. New government regulations are constantly changing the automotive environment that BMW operates in.

Of course, fuel efficiency and safety come at the cost of driving pleasure and performance. They are placing lots of focus on efficient dynamics and their "i" lineup of electric vehicles.

Nevertheless, BMW is still maintaining their value of making one thing, the "Ultimate Driving Machine." Each and every BMW model has it's strengths and weaknesses, so determining whether or not one model is more of a "driver's" car is entirely subjective.
rice_bowl is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-30-2013, 10:50 PM   #98
FogCityM3
Lieutenant Colonel
 
FogCityM3's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 (E90)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 1,565
iTrader: (0)

The major driver of platform and engine sharing is to take out costs and improve corporate profitability and this is plastered over every BMW investor presentation and discussed regularly with the investor community.

Also, in the past, BMW's tended to be predominantly male owned cars, now look at any BMW that's driven and you see quite a high proportion of female drivers...was not the case 10-20 yrs ago. Not ignoring 51% of the population is one way to gain market share rapidly...of course this meant "softening the cars" to broaden appeal.
FogCityM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-31-2013, 09:09 PM   #99
nicknaz
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2012 Z4 35i
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Diego CA

Posts: 4,030
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mlambert890 View Post
They don't make sports cars at all really. Only the Z line could even be considered for that category. The Ms are all clearly "hot sedan" GTs and always have been.


I've driven the F30 and I honestly think people are just massively overstating the difference, then using mag "evidence" as confirmation bias.
Agreed on the Z4 and I have a Z435i and that's why I said "I don't think BMW makes sports cars well at all so I won't be driving one of those from BMW in the future"

Great "GT", lots of fun, I like it, but I was hoping it could be a "track missile" but it is really not.

I think the accuracy of the steering is still there with the EPS, and "feel / driver engagement" takes getting used to. I remember thinking E90 steering feel was poor but ended up really liking it after a while.
nicknaz is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-07-2013, 01:03 AM   #100
AppStoreMoney
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2013 F30 328i M-Sport
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Seattle, WA

Posts: 121
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biohazard29 View Post
I personally feel we have seen the best and things are getting cheap.


In 1936 BMW produced the 80hp 328 Roadster. This car was highly successful, and it became a legend of racing history. It was nominated for Car of the Century in 1999. Today's BMWs just can't match the steering feel and quality. 1936 was the peak, and it's been downhill ever since...

EDIT: Actually, that photo shows a BMW 303, and not the 328 roadster. The 303 had an even better steering feel. Many felt that the 1936 328 roadster became a bit too mainstream.

Last edited by AppStoreMoney; 06-07-2013 at 01:09 AM.
AppStoreMoney is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-08-2013, 01:27 AM   #101
ybbiz34
Moderator
 
ybbiz34's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 C63 AMG Sedan
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA

Posts: 4,644
iTrader: (1)

The F30 M Sport is the one of the most beautiful 3ers BMW has made, behind the E46 M3 and the E9X M3. The pre-LCI E90s were atrocious looking (I know because I leased one). It just looked very forgettable. I also had a '10 LCI M Sport E90 335i. It was somewhat aggressive looking. Nothing special really. Nowhere near as aggressive looking as my current F30 M Sport 335i.
__________________
'13 Iridium Silver C63 AMG Sedan (540 hp; 500 lb-ft)
ybbiz34 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-10-2013, 09:33 AM   #102
CosmoAP2000
Registered
 
Drives: 745i 1983 euro
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Pennsylvania

Posts: 2
iTrader: (0)

Best days in past

Perhaps not technically but in build quality, lasting engineering and unique styling the e23, e24 were the times. Bmw was in direct competition with Mercedes and all the significant automobile achievements were perfected, what remained was to build the car better more lasting for the long ownership and pride in hardware.
CosmoAP2000 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-10-2013, 11:09 AM   #103
LuisSF
Major
 
LuisSF's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 128i 6mt m-sport
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 1,463
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2007 328xi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by John 070 View Post
If the day comes when people cannot simply walk away from homes they overpaid for, etc., I think sensibility will return. Until then, the next step will happen eventually, 4 cyl. cars that top 60k. Dang, the E92 M3 could be had for 58k when it came out...yet people are willing to buy F30 328's for 52k
Everything has increased in price. Not just BMWs.
__________________
Would rather take the bus than drive an automatic.
2013 BMW 128i 6MT MGM/CR. M-sport/Premium/Cold, HK, Xenons, Fineline trim, Security System, BMW Assist, BMW SSK and PE. European Delivery 7-12-2013.
SOLD: 2007 BMW 328xi 6MT BSM/Terra
http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...future+classic
LuisSF is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-10-2013, 11:34 AM   #104
Red Bread
Brigadier General
 
Drives: My wife's car
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,260
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by lem144 View Post
Everything has increased in price. Not just BMWs.
Yep, just using a standard 3% inflation rate, that simply means that a car that cost $46k in 2008 would now be $52k, or about the same price as a loaded E90 328i with a less powerful, less efficient straight six had at the time.
Red Bread is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-10-2013, 11:34 AM   #105
Freon
Captain
 
Drives: 2009 135i
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Indianapolis

Posts: 850
iTrader: (2)

Man, this place reeks of sour grapes.
__________________
2009 BMW 135i 6MT Sport, AFE intake, Cobb AP, Apex 18x8.5+9.5, 255/275 PSS
Freon is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-10-2013, 11:35 AM   #106
paradoxical3
Captain
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: USA

Posts: 647
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Bread View Post
Yep, just using a standard 3% inflation rate, that simply means that a car that cost $46k in 2008 would now be $52k, or about the same price as a loaded E90 328i with a less powerful, less efficient straight six, but infinitely better suspension, steering feel, and fun factor had at the time.
Fixed that for you.
paradoxical3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-10-2013, 11:46 AM   #107
Red Bread
Brigadier General
 
Drives: My wife's car
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Dallas, TX

Posts: 4,260
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by paradoxical3 View Post
Fixed that for you.
I don't like either, so change all you want. I'd still take an E46 ZHP or E46 M3 over any E9x or F3x. But it's not because they've gotten more expensive, given inflation and the Euro, things haven't really changed or have become slightly cheaper.
Red Bread is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-25-2013, 07:21 PM   #108
Desert_Fox
Drop-Top Turbo
 
Desert_Fox's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 335is E93
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 441
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Send a message via MSN to Desert_Fox Send a message via Skype™ to Desert_Fox
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppStoreMoney View Post


In 1936 BMW produced the 80hp 328 Roadster. This car was highly successful, and it became a legend of racing history. It was nominated for Car of the Century in 1999. Today's BMWs just can't match the steering feel and quality. 1936 was the peak, and it's been downhill ever since...

EDIT: Actually, that photo shows a BMW 303, and not the 328 roadster. The 303 had an even better steering feel. Many felt that the 1936 328 roadster became a bit too mainstream.
Please tell me you're kidding when you say it has been all downhill since... 1936 . What about the 2002, e30 m3? Cars any BMW enthusiast hold up like a holy grail undisputedly.
__________________
Current 2013 BMW 335is E93 [Mineral White] [Coral Red] DCT, Premium Pkg, Convenience Pkg, Nav, Heated Seats, HK, BMW Apps
Retired 2007 BMW 335i E93 [Sparking Graphite][Coral Red] Steptronic, Premium Pkg, Sport Pkg, Navigation, Active Steering, Logic 7, Comfort Access, CF Trim
Desert_Fox is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2013, 12:47 AM   #109
NelsonAGilli
Registered
 
Drives: BMW 2011
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: USA

Posts: 1
iTrader: (0)

Well very true about E9x or even the E46 this were the best BMW I have ever used.
NelsonAGilli is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      06-26-2013, 04:29 PM   #110
davesaddiction
is fast cars
 
davesaddiction's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 E90 M3 6MT SSII BPM Stg II
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Tulsa

Posts: 1,540
iTrader: (0)

I sincerely hope that the upcoming M2 re-establishes dominance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=CCoWi_wU-oM
davesaddiction is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:47 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST