Civic Type R/Integra Type S

Mes actionneurs d'accélérateur viennent de sortir à nouveau (remplacé 2021) et avec ma voiture garée en mode boiteux en attendant les pièces, je me demandais si je devais juste obtenir quelque chose de moins... fragile.

Tedward (sur Youtube) a suivi le même processus de réflexion et échangé son E92 contre un CTR. Certes, le balisage sur le CTR / ITS est fou en ce moment, mais j'aimerais avoir la tranquillité d'esprit de pouvoir rouler sur la route ma voiture en été sans se soucier des outils d'emballage et des actionneurs de gaz de remplacement.

Pour ceux qui ont conduit à la fois l'E9X M3 et CTR / ITS, comment se comparent-ils? J'ai presque eu un FK8 CTR il y a 2 ans, mais je me suis dit que je devrais avoir un V8 NA de grande cylindrée tant que je le peux encore.

En termes de praticité, le citoyen l’emporte probablement avec la trappe. J'ai aussi 6'3 et personne avec des jambes ne peut tenir derrière moi dans l'E90. Mais comment va la voiture ? J'aime l'équilibre de la plate-forme E9X - assez petit pour être agile et réglable (surtout avec les bras monoball), mais pas trop porcin. Un moteur presque unique et un excellent retour d'expérience.

Il y a un autre fil ici à ce sujet, mais il était rempli de fanboys chantant "bUt itS a HONDa!" Les badges et le luxe sont assez bas sur ma liste, en bas avec la grille G80

Je viens de vendre mon E92 M3 il y a environ un mois et j’ai fini par acheter un 2023 CTR. Une fois que j'ai eu un enfant, la M3 s'est assise. J'ai pensé à l'échanger pour la facilité de l'expérience du concessionnaire, mais je savais que j'allais me faire défoncer sur la valeur alors je suis passé par les tracas de le vendre en privé ... OMG la quantité de DM et de kickers de pneus était ridicule, heureusement la bonne personne est venue et nous avons fait une bonne affaire pour les deux parties.

J'avais le cœur sur un M3 4 portes soit un E90 ou F80 juste pour des raisons pratiques, mais (encore une fois) avec un enfant, je n'étais plus vraiment d'humeur à la délicatesse d'une voiture M, à la réchauffer 5 minutes, etc. Le test a conduit un M340i, blah, au hasard a fait une recherche sur Google et un CTR est littéralement apparu chez le concessionnaire le même jour alors que j'étais déjà sorti. Je suis allé avec la femme, le bébé et le siège d'auto et je l'ai pris pour un lecteur et j'étais accro. Payé un peu plus de PDSF, mais ils ont jeté quelques extras gratuits, roue et pneu paquet, etc puisque j'étais un client existant, donc pas mal.

Les avantages du CTR - le meilleur manuel jamais, sérieusement. Le M3 est une poubelle. Les sièges et la praticité sont meilleurs, l'écoutille est énorme. Je n'ai pas besoin d'une tonne de technologie, donc j'aime l'infodivertissement simple du CTR. En fait, je préfère faire tourner un moteur de plus petite cylindrée, la M3 ne me ferait arrêter que par des engrenages comme je le peux sur le CTR.

Inconvénients du CTR - il ne sera jamais un RWD V8 qui passe à 8200 - rien n'est!

Look up Engineering Explained's Youtube review of the ITS.

I can't do the Civic Type R and the Integra Type S, my M3 is streetable but nowadays I mostly track it on weekends.

The Civic and Integra both have overheating issues and goes into limp mode on track. They're not designed for track driving and pretty delicate if you decide to track it. It's been an issue since the FK8 and it continues to be a problem in this current generation. Honda never figured out how to fix it or they just don't care.

But if you don't track, you won't see these issues so for 99% of the buyers, they are fine on the street.

Luvs2spwg wrote

Pros of the CTR - best manual ever, seriously. The M3 stick is garbage in comparison.

Not true, the best manual is the S2000 and even the older DC2R transmission is better than the new FK8/FL5.

If you like the E9x M3, put in an Autosolutions SSK. It'll stop anyone from complaining about shitty shifters in a BMW.

Anyone else have any insight on this? I would be lying if I said that I haven't been considering the same. Although, with the FL5's going over msrp, I would likely be looking at an FK8 which is extremely boy racer looking (to me anyways), so who knows... As the OP mentioned, I would be very worried about losing the s65 noise/character and could potentially have immediate buyers remorse...

importraceram wrote

Anyone else have any insight on this? I would be lying if I said that I haven't been considering the same. Although, with the FL5's going over msrp, I would likely be looking at an FK8 which is extremely boy racer looking (to me anyways), so who knows... As the OP mentioned, I would be very worried about losing the s65 noise/character and could potentially have immediate buyers remorse...

I had a FK8 before i came back to the E90 M3. It really depends what you're looking for....

both have 4 doors
FK8 is faster stock track car. E9X is more fun on the street
FK8 sounds like a pig, E9X sounds glorious
FK8 has a great stock transmission feel, E9X is great with Autosolutions SSK
FK8 is cheap to maintain, E9X oil changes already make me cringe.

On that note, the FK8 has got compliments from Soccer Moms, Kids/Teenagers, Grandmas. My E9X gets compliments from other douchebags.

panda-R wrote

I had a FK8 before i came back to the E90 M3. It really depends what you're looking for....

both have 4 doors
FK8 is faster stock track car. E9X is more fun on the street
FK8 sounds like a pig, E9X sounds glorious
FK8 has a great stock transmission feel, E9X is great with Autosolutions SSK
FK8 is cheap to maintain, E9X oil changes already make me cringe.

On that note, the FK8 has got compliments from Soccer Moms, Kids/Teenagers, Grandmas. My E9X gets compliments from other douchebags.

From "other douchebags". Does that mean you are calling yourself one too?

Brandoch wrote

From "other douchebags". Does that mean you are calling yourself one too?

Do non douchebags drive BMWs with no cats?

panda-R wrote

Do non douchebags drive BMWs with no cats?

Guilty as charged 😉

panda-R wrote

I had a FK8 before i came back to the E90 M3. It really depends what you're looking for....

both have 4 doors
FK8 is faster stock track car. E9X is more fun on the street
FK8 sounds like a pig, E9X sounds glorious
FK8 has a great stock transmission feel, E9X is great with Autosolutions SSK
FK8 is cheap to maintain, E9X oil changes already make me cringe.

On that note, the FK8 has got compliments from Soccer Moms, Kids/Teenagers, Grandmas. My E9X gets compliments from other douchebags.

Great feedback here, I appreciate it! It appears that, from a performance standpoint, the FK8 isn't all that far behind the FL5 but rather the FL5 is more refined and less boy-racer (a major benefit in my opinion). As I previously mentioned, at over MSRP it's hard to justify the FL5 even damn near a year since its release. FK8 seems like a better value granted they are still selling very close to their original MSRP (high 30's) with tens of thousands of miles.

Not to change the subject but if we are talking FL5 money (50'ish) you could put a pretty clean f80 on the table for discussion...which should be objectively better in every sense granted the German out of warranty reliability concern is still present.

Dang, I never thought I'd say this but in my late 30's I just can't do a CTR/ITR. I really like how they look but I briefly drove the last gen and the only thing I remember is that it was super stiff. But something about new cars these days just doesn't feel right...they're all so good now that it's bad. They have gas engines but feel like an electric car with the computer controlling everything. Simply put, they feel soulless and I'm sure the CTR/ITR is no different. If the m3 is your daily then I feel for you, but I'd much rather live with a still pretty reliable e90 m3 than "insert any new car here".

I sold my M3 back in Nov and recently took delivery of an FK8 CTR. The car came on the OEM continental summer rubber so need to address that before I can start driving extremely hard given the season. With that being said I definitely do have some early impressions.

Even though not pushing the CTR terribly hard, you get the sense that it’s glued to the road and rides noticeably stiffer than my M3 (H&R springs plus Bilstein shocks). My car wasn’t an EDC car so maybe that’s why it felt “softer” than the CTR (especially in sport and +R mode).

When it comes to sound we all know there’s no question which car has the upper hand there. There’s no doubt that sound is the e9x’s strong suit and it takes something verrrrry special to top the sound.

As far as exterior, the e90 M3 is hard to beat as it offers a mix of muscular yet subtle styling. The fk8 CTR, especially in Rallye Red, is definitely a lot more in your face and loud. I am still warming up to the styling of the fk8. I have already said, many times, “it comes from the factory with that wing”.

Interior comparison is interesting…which the M3 undoubtedly has a much more quality fit and finish I feel as though the CTR interior feels more special even if covered in faux CF and microfiber. I feel like the M3 felt like a normal 3 series inside (even if the seats were slightly more bolstered) whereas the CTR you know you’re in something more special than the base model. The seats are very aggressive but yet reasonably comfortable.

As far as acceleration goes the butt dyno/seat of the pants doesn’t say the CTR is that much slower (it is currently bone stock). However, I know based on magazine trap speeds it’s definitely slower in stock form than a catless tuned e9x. The turbo powerband smacking you in the face combined with its 3117 lbs curb weight make it feel like it still goes pretty well even if just over 300hp out of the box.

I would say it’s definitely too early to say, outright, which I prefer however this change over to Honda was predicated on more than just performance and street credibility (M3 vs civic). I wanted a newer, more reliable, cheaper to operate vehicle that can still act in the capacity of an enthusiast car putting a smile on my face on the back roads.

importraceram wrote

I have already said, many times, “it comes from the factory with that wing”.

I know that feeling from my years owning a Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution!

I have both a e92 M3 and a 2020 CTR. Not going to lie I love the CTR but the ride is super stiff and unforgiving with those rubberband tires.

Also because of the stiffness the car is starting to accumulate rattles at only 13k, and you hear a lot of road noise.

I actually been thinking of trading it in for something like an is500. If none of those issues scare you off, then go for it.

I will say, I love whipping it around, sometimes even more fun than the e92, but then you hear the 8k v8 screaming and i can go back and forth.

Haven’t compared cost difference but if your situation allows it (mine does) I just have an older car as a backup for when my Germans are out of service. So I can keep “needy” cars as daily’s if I want and when they are in service I am not ticked off because I just drive the backup car. I have to find cheap indy’s and take Ubers to manage costs effectively but manages my car being out of service and impacting me anxieties. And the variety on occasion is fun.

Now to caveat my own argument my backup is a 2008 128i 6spd with 160,000+ miles on it most put on by me over 15 years. You’d think a car that you only drive 1,000 miles a year wouldn’t break often but boy would you be wrong. So my situation is great because I have two fun to drive cars but two older BMW’s are not a cheap combination.

Also, gas mileage on these things (E9x M3) are getting to me. Can’t lie. 128 kills it on that. Time for me to make more money (again).

I wouldn't consider an E9x M3 to be unreliable or expensive to own. The most expensive part of dailying an E9x M3 is the fuel consumption, that would be the only reason not to daily one. Other than that, it's very simple to service and they are pretty solid mechanically as long as you cover your major bases (rod bearings, rebuilt throttle actuators, etc.)

As for shifter comparisons, you can't compare a cable-operated shifter in a Honda to a direct-linkage shifter in a BMW. FWIW I prefer my Autosolutions E92 over any Honda I've driven, even over an S2K shifter.

SSJVegita wrote

I have both a e92 M3 and a 2020 CTR. Not going to lie I love the CTR but the ride is super stiff and unforgiving with those rubberband tires.

Also because of the stiffness the car is starting to accumulate rattles at only 13k, and you hear a lot of road noise.

I actually been thinking of trading it in for something like an is500. If none of those issues scare you off, then go for it.

I will say, I love whipping it around, sometimes even more fun than the e92, but then you hear the 8k v8 screaming and i can go back and forth.

The first time that I put the car into +R mode I was blown away at just how stiff the ride was. Hell I would venture to say that my CTR’s comfort mode is similar to my old H&R spring/Bilstein shock M3.

Z K wrote

I can't do the Civic Type R and the Integra Type S, my M3 is streetable but nowadays I mostly track it on weekends.

The Civic and Integra both have overheating issues and goes into limp mode on track. They're not designed for track driving and pretty delicate if you decide to track it. It's been an issue since the FK8 and it continues to be a problem in this current generation. Honda never figured out how to fix it or they just don't care.

But if you don't track, you won't see these issues so for 99% of the buyers, they are fine on the street.

Some of you guys need to learn to read. OP is asking about the car for daily purposes. Where do you see him asking how it fairs on track?

Wouldn't trade my E92 for it but I absolutely love the Integra Type S. It feels like an "adult" version of the CTR. Love the widebody flares and it pulls off the 3 exhaust tips a lot better than the civic imo

Will probably pick up a used one eventually

I’m very glad they make a CTR. It also scratches the nostalgic itch caused by the original type R.

It’s also an excellent car - matched to its new peers, you’re into m2s, supras, and performance trim Camaros and mustangs for similar performance and focus.

However, at list price, id rather have me a slightly older performance specials from recent generations (330 zhps, older m2s or m3s e46 and e9x, ats V, etc) for the rwd dynamics, smaller sizes and old feel. I wouldn’t fault someone for choosing one, though.

Above MSRP (some dealers are asking more than CAD $75k for new ones), it makes way less sense.

SSJVegita a écrit

En fait, je pensais l'échanger contre quelque chose comme un is500. Si aucun de ces problèmes ne vous effraie, alors allez-y.

J'ai conduit un IS500 cet été, et même si c'était amusant, il n'avait pas la réponse du moteur tranchant que nous aimons de la M3. À moins d'avoir maintenu que la M3 vous brisait, je ne pouvais pas voir prendre un IS500 dessus.