NASA TTB Setup

Peeps,

Plus je passe de temps ici, plus je finis par avoir des mods d'imagerie f***ing etc. J’ai été là et je l’ai fait, et je n’ai pas la motivation, le temps, l’énergie pour tout recommencer. Une partie de la raison pour laquelle j'ai eu cette voiture était de ne pas avoir un camion / remorque / voiture de course cassée.

Donc... puisque je donne des cours à la NASA, ce serait non seulement amusant de faire du TTB mais aussi de me permettre de tirer le meilleur parti de moi-même (la compétition est bonne) et d’utiliser mon équipement au maximum (ce que j’attends avec impatience).

Ma voiture est une E90 avec TOUTES LES OPTIONS DCT donc un cochon lourd (une partie de la raison pour laquelle je l'ai eu était parce que je me réveillais et disais "cette voiture est déjà un handicap, alors pourquoi le modifier?")

Mon équipement :

1) Les rotors PFC (pas de points, ils seront lancés l'année prochaine)
2) PF08 (encore une fois pas de points)
3) 18X10 ET25 Enkei roues.

N'importe qui dans TTB, qu'est-ce que vous courez pour les pneus / taille / autres mods limités?

Merci.

Lutfy

C’est un dilemme intéressant dans lequel je me suis également retrouvé lorsque j’ai récemment acheté une E92 avec la vision de créer une autre voiture de course, mais au fil du temps, par étapes (pour en apprendre davantage sur la voiture et répartir les coûts au fil du temps). La première étape a donc été de construire une voiture de course sur route.

Le problème avec le E9x M3 est que sa classe de base est TTB** avec un poids de base minimum de 3 625 lbs. Le ** signifie que vous avez déjà 14 points et 19 points est la limite pour rester dans TTB. Vous avez donc 5 points avec lesquels travailler.

J'ai rapidement abandonné TTB quand j'ai réalisé que 5 points ne suffisaient même pas pour faire des pneus R comp (comme les NT01). Sauter à la classe suivante vous met en TT3, ce qui est absurde car c'est une classe de puissance à poids avec base 9:1, ce qui est sensiblement plus nut que le ratio 11: 1 de la classe de course GTS3! J'ai abandonné TTB, parce que cela ne m'a pas donné la chance de construire le circuit routier comme je le voulais. J'ai couru le dernier événement de Glen dans TT3, mais était canapé roi loin d'être compétitif, c'était douloureux. Je suppose que c’était plus une question d’alignement grille par tour pour me permettre d’obtenir la piste ouverte dont j’avais besoin pour me comparer et le temps au tour de cette voiture.

Cela dit, si vous choisissez de rester dans TTB, vous avez 5 points pour travailler avec.

Je ferais 2 choses avec ces 5 points :

1 : Les pneus
Il semble que votre meilleur choix de pneus dans cette limite de point est un pneu de rue collant (non r comp), comme Dunlop Direzzas ou Hankook RS3. Ce sont +2 points. Rappelez-vous également que si votre pneu le plus large est 275, c'est 10mm au-dessus de la base 265 TTB, donc cela vous coûtera un autre +1 point.

2 (option A): réduction de poids
20 lbs +2 points. Par conséquent, votre objectif est de faire peser votre voiture avec vous et presque pas d'essence. C'est tout à fait faisable. Mon e92 pèse actuellement 3600 lbs avec 1/2 réservoir d'essence et moi dedans. C'est avec seulement le siège arrière et la doublure du coffre enlevés (facile à faire, juste quelques boulons et clips et peut revenir en 20 minutes). Trouvez des échelles et faites le calcul. Retirez les choses jusqu'à ce que vous approchiez de la limite (rappelez-vous, les échelles ont tendance à varier, alors assurez-vous de laisser un peu plus de marge).

2 (option B): FAITES-LE LOUD
Si vous ne voulez pas renoncer au luxe et à l'utilité qui accompagnent la réduction de poids ou si vous ne voulez pas être dérangé par le fait d'enlever toute cette merde avant un événement sur piste et de le réinstaller après ... Ensuite, j’opterais pour un échappement bruyant qui vous fera sourire et perturber la société avec cette symphonie V8. L'échappement est +2 points Tant que vous laissez les chats dedans.

Juste quelques suggestions. J'espère que cela vous aidera.

Stee wrote

That said, if you choose to remain in TTB, you have 5 points to work with.

I would do 2 things with those 5 points:

#1: Tires
It looks like you best tire choice within that point limit is a sticky street tire (non r comp), like Dunlop Direzzas or Hankook RS3s. Those are +2 points. Also remember that if your widest tire is 275, that's 10mm over the 265 TTB base, so that will cost you another +1 point.

#2 (option A): Weight Reduction
20 lbs is +2 points. Therefore, your goal is to get your car to weigh 3,605 lbs with you in it and almost no gas. This is definitely doable. My e92 currently weighs 3,600 lbs with 1/2 tank of gas and me in it. That's with just the rear seat and trunk lining removed (easy to do, just a few bolts and clips and can go back in in 20 minutes). Find some scales and do the math. Pull stuff out until you get near the limit (remember, scales tend to vary, so be sure to leave a little extra margin).

#2 (option B): MAKE IT LOUD
If you don't want to give up luxury and utility that comes along with weight reduction or you don't want to be bothered removing all that crap before a track event and reinstalling it after... Then I would go for a nice loud exhaust that will make you smile and disrupt society with that V8 symphony. Exhaust is +2 points as long as you leave the cats in.

Just some suggestions. I hope this helps.

Stee,

You are the man! I had one of those last nights where I was dreaming of the exhaust. It always start from there and my cars end up being caged up. I have done it multiple times to keep telling myself ONE AND HALF more year before CPO wears out and you get a Euro delivery on the new M3.

I will be at a NASA event at VIR this weekend so will weigh in the car for baseline then on Sunday weigh in again with the items removed as suggested.

I think I am going to go with the tire option. 275 and sticky street. I really don't care for the lap times to post online nor win any trophies. My goal is to have an auto which I can PUSH to the limit paying extra attention to data aq. From time to time, I'll let some pro/super amateurs drive it up and take data. Its more about driver development here and I need competition/competitive environment to do this vs HPDE 4.

Having a set of street tires slapped on at all point in time is also a relief as I hate carrying all the garbage (tools, wheels, jack etc.) to the track. Now I arrive and drive which to me is a relief. For loudness, I intend to leave PF08s on during the season

Do you think I can benefit from say a set of say Dinan or Eibach springs on this car with stock EDC (since you know more about these now than I do)? Those are also 2 points.

You were pretty fast at the Glen

Cheers,

Lutfy

Per the rulebook it also states under D: Drivetrain,

Added paddle/electronic shift +3

So will my DCT automatically result in +3 vs a manual car?

Yeah, E9X M3s are heavily penalized. Looking at some of the Texas NASA TTB times...if you could put on Hoosiers or even NT01s in 275s square a really good driver would be pretty competitive.

So you can be competitive. Win? That would be pretty tough.

lutfy wrote

Per the rulebook it also states under D: Drivetrain,

Added paddle/electronic shift +3

So will my DCT automatically result in +3 vs a manual car?

DCT actually incurs a 6 pt penalty as it also alters gear ratios (D.2).

So you'd be in TT3 at a minimum.

ThunderMoose wrote

DCT actually incurs a 6 pt penalty as it also alters gear ratios (D.2).

So you'd be in TT3 at a minimum.

That's racism!

lutfy wrote

Stee,

You are the man! I had one of those last nights where I was dreaming of the exhaust. It always start from there and my cars end up being caged up. I have done it multiple times to keep telling myself ONE AND HALF more year before CPO wears out and you get a Euro delivery on the new M3.

I will be at a NASA event at VIR this weekend so will weigh in the car for baseline then on Sunday weigh in again with the items removed as suggested.

I think I am going to go with the tire option. 275 and sticky street. I really don't care for the lap times to post online nor win any trophies. My goal is to have an auto which I can PUSH to the limit paying extra attention to data aq. From time to time, I'll let some pro/super amateurs drive it up and take data. Its more about driver development here and I need competition/competitive environment to do this vs HPDE 4.

Having a set of street tires slapped on at all point in time is also a relief as I hate carrying all the garbage (tools, wheels, jack etc.) to the track. Now I arrive and drive which to me is a relief. For loudness, I intend to leave PF08s on during the season

Do you think I can benefit from say a set of say Dinan or Eibach springs on this car with stock EDC (since you know more about these now than I do)? Those are also 2 points.

You were pretty fast at the Glen

Cheers,

Lutfy

Thanks.

Trust me, I understand the idea of going back to simplicity more than you can imagine! Keep it simple and go rip it!

I don't have any direct experience with just lowering springs with EDC, so I'm not sure of the performance advantage, if any.

Another idea in addition to TT for good track time are open track days, like Group 52. This gives you more track time than you can use in a much more relaxed open schedule. Open track days are also great opportunities to work with professional instructors and do data analysis as you suggested.

Enjoy the NASA event at VIR. I'll be watching it on race monitor.

ThunderMoose wrote

DCT actually incurs a 6 pt penalty as it also alters gear ratios (D.2).

So you'd be in TT3 at a minimum.

Oops, I missed that. DCT gets assessed those points even though its from the factory and not an add on modification?

Wow, that sucks then. TT3 is brutal. Unfortunately these cars would have to go through extensive transformations to be really competitive in TT3.

bigjae1976 wrote

Yeah, E9X M3s are heavily penalized. Looking at some of the Texas NASA TTB times...if you could put on Hoosiers or even NT01s in 275s square a really good driver would be pretty competitive.

So you can be competitive. Win? That would be pretty tough.

Unfortunately I think the point assessment for r comps range from 7 (for NT-01) to 13 (for Hoosier A6), which are above the 5 point limit to stay in TTB.

Could run tiny wheel/tires?
Base = +14
dct = +3
hoosier R6 = +10
-40mm tires = -10
sway bars +2

Fat girl on spaghettios

kenshin223 wrote

Could run tiny wheel/tires?
Base = +14
dct = +3
hoosier R6 = +10
-40mm tires = -10
sway bars +2

Fat girl on spaghettios

Brilliant. I would bet this is the fastest setup.

Fat girl on speghettios had me :

Pro driver Leh Keen had a video up of a 2:08 lap at VIR on PS2 tires in his e9x m3. Can't find the vid but here is his post on the Lap time thread:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7773756&postcount=5

Something to compare to on your journey to VIR. Supposedly Watkins Glen and VIR will have very similar lap times. I guess if your that good of a driver, its realistic to be competitive with a e9x m3 w/ street tires in TTB, but you probably wouldn't be meddling with club racing/TT at that point. Just more confirmation I'm slow.

kenshin223 wrote  

Could run tiny wheel/tires?
Base = +14
dct = +3
hoosier R6 = +10
-40mm tires = -10
sway bars +2

Fat girl on spaghettios

Lol

I don't see how the e9x M3 would ever be competitive in TTB.

My s2000 runs 1:19 in TTC trim at my local track. I'm sure I can run a 1:18 in TTB trim.

My e92 100% stock except NT01's ran high a 22. As noted the NT01's bump the car out of TTB.

You should give up on TTB and go straight to TT3 or like a friend of mine TT2

It rained pretty much the entire time. Was running HPDE 4. It was kinda drying out except for the oak tree with standing water and some other portion of the track so times were varying. Nothing to rave about.

Not going to turn this into a competitive TT3 car. Decided to keep it as is. On scale it put down 3685lbs with 1/2 tank of gas without driver. Lighter 18 wheels but everything else in there.

Not worth modding. Its still plenty quick, wanted to be competitive that's all.

Stee, since your car is hooking up really well and you are running 275 square, mind sharing alignment specs? I have a hard time putting all the power down and am modulating a lot. -2.5 front, -1.8 rear. Do I need more at the back? Tire wearing well both ends.

Cheers,

Lutfy

TT3 shouldn't really be that crazy, right?

e90 = +0.4
buy a spare trunk and add wing for track days = -0.5
DCT = -0.2
run slicks: -0.75, otherwise leave it
get weight to 3600-3649 = +0.4

That puts you at 8.9 to 9.65. At 3600 lbs, that's 373 to 404 (depending on slicks). You have e90 so easy to transport wheels with track-only tires. You still have some easy weight loss possible, if desired (e.g., replacing front seats, removing rear seats, etc.). That power range is doable with a tune and basic bolt-ons.

Getting down to 3600 w/ driver would be the hardest part (depending on how much you weigh). But even at 3700 lbs you're looking at 389 whp with slicks which isn't unreasonable.

And always keeping in mind that you don't have to be RIGHT at the bleeding edge to be competitive locally.

rhouck wrote

TT3 shouldn't really be that crazy, right?

e90 = +0.4
buy a spare trunk and add wing for track days = -0.5
DCT = -0.2
run slicks: -0.75, otherwise leave it
get weight to 3600-3649 = +0.4

That puts you at 8.9 to 9.65. At 3600 lbs, that's 373 to 404 (depending on slicks). You have e90 so easy to transport wheels with track-only tires. You still have some easy weight loss possible, if desired (e.g., replacing front seats, removing rear seats, etc.). That power range is doable with a tune and basic bolt-ons.

Getting down to 3600 w/ driver would be the hardest part (depending on how much you weigh). But even at 3700 lbs you're looking at 389 whp with slicks which isn't unreasonable.

And always keeping in mind that you don't have to be RIGHT at the bleeding edge to be competitive locally.

Hi Rhouck,

But this beats the purpose of getting rid of the race car in the first place along with the infrastructure. I was hoping to get my spirit charged with some competition but this wont happen unless you really shell out some $$ on this car. I live in DC (which is the capitol of crappies roads in the nation too) so running slicks will require high spring rates and designer shocks which is not an option.

I guess you all pretty much answered my question. I'll do some track days here and there and rent rides from time to time in Enduros to get some kick as well.

Instead of modding cars (it really gives me in a mental mast**bation mode and that's all I tinker on then), I intend to pick up the new(er) M3 to go fast(er).

No TTB for this car.

Thanks peeps.

Lutfy