Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

RM7 wrote

Well that's the thing, your useful hydrogen density for a fuel cell is still thousands of PSI and even better, they still require a supplemental hybrid drive (battery) because fuel cells don't do well with accelerations. So you are going to burn to death and blow up.

...yeah, you wouldn't run a fuel cell as a drive power source. You would run it as a charge source, the fuel cell generation the electricity needed to keep the battery charged. You'd still run a battery pack of several kwh, and you'd use the fuel cell as a charging source, just like you'd use a hydrocarbon powered generator on something like Ramcharger.

But you're right - the reality is the safest solution is to just burn some overall inert hydrocarbons in a generator to charge that battery while you go. Even better if you can use a biofuel, like an algae derived biodiesel. There's been some amazing work on that where the algae could in theory use more CO2 to create their biofuel than burning it would release. That's got the added benefit of actively removing all that pesky CO2 we are worried about.

What would truly be a wonderful product would be something like Ramcharger with a diesel generator to charge the battery. Because of how well diesels handle high load vs gasoline, they're a perfect fit for a high load application like this, so you'd use significantly less fuel to charge the vehicle.

BlkGS wrote

There is no reason to not have a plug in though. If you never use it no big deal. If you do, cool that's less gasoline burned.

Have you watched the electric consumption meter shoot up when you plug in your hybrid, takes around six or more hours to charge just standing there, to 100% from zero and doesn't give you that many miles.

BlkGS wrote

What would truly be a wonderful product would be something like Ramcharger with a diesel generator to charge the battery. Because of how well diesels handle high load vs gasoline, they're a perfect fit for a high load application like this, so you'd use significantly less fuel to charge the vehicle.

Isn’t RAM doing this now with the gas 3.6 as the generator? Why did they pick the gas engine? Doesn’t Dodge have a 3.0 diesel? Diesel might weigh more if it’s an iron block and the gas is aluminum.

BlkGS wrote

...yeah, you wouldn't run a fuel cell as a drive power source. You would run it as a charge source, the fuel cell generation the electricity needed to keep the battery charged. You'd still run a battery pack of several kwh, and you'd use the fuel cell as a charging source, just like you'd use a hydrocarbon powered generator on something like Ramcharger.

That is partially the case. There are about 17,000 hydrogen cars in the US, all in CA. What the article below does not say is that the price of hydrogen has gone way up in the last few years and people are paying hundreds to fill the tank, which is good for only several hundred miles. However many buyers received a big credit with the car to buy hydrogen to incentivize buyers.
https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a41103863/hydrogen-cars-fcev/

BlkGS wrote

There is no reason to not have a plug in though. If you never use it no big deal. If you do, cool that's less gasoline burned.

I can think of cost as a reason.

pbonsalb wrote

Isn’t RAM doing this now with the gas 3.6 as the generator? Why did they pick the gas engine? Doesn’t Dodge have a 3.0 diesel? Diesel might weigh more if it’s an iron block and the gas is aluminum.

The EPA has essentially regulated most small diesels off the market. Regulatory issues aside (and the fact that it went out of production for like 2023), the eco diesel was an expensive engine, and the pentastar is not. Pentastar gets used in everything and is mass.prodiced to the extreme.

Ramcharger will probably start at like 65k for a basic ass truck. It would have likely gone up to like 70k with eco diesel. Which would have killed it before it started for a base truck.

Efthreeoh wrote

I can think of cost as a reason.

The cost to add charging for a small battery is negligible. $100 tops.

BlkGS wrote

There is no reason to not have a plug in though. If you never use it no big deal. If you do, cool that's less gasoline burned.

I would completely disagree with that. I’ve actually been a fairly big fan of the 330e. I haven’t driven a G20 330e, but I’ve driven an F30 330e quite a few times. As I think about it I may have driven a G20 330e once at a BMW driving event. Anyway, I always enjoyed driving the F30 330e and was always pretty impressed with its performance. I’ve always driven one with juice in the battery. I live in a condo with garage parking where I could not easily charge a plug-in hybrid. My parking space is close to a storage room and I even considered whether I could run an extension cord from there to my car, but I knew I would run into a Karen or two who would unplug it. I even posted a thread on F30Post asking opinions and, of course, the overwhelming response was “no, don’t do it” and quite a bit of discussion about hauling around dead weight if I drove it uncharged and losing mpgs if I drove it in self-charge mode with the motor charging the battery. So, I would say there absolutely is a reason not to have a plug-in hybrid if you don’t have an easy way to charge it.

tturedraider wrote

I would completely disagree with that. I’ve actually been a fairly big fan of the 330e. I haven’t driven a G20 330e, but I’ve driven an F30 330e quite a few times. As I think about it I may have driven a G20 330e once at a BMW driving event. Anyway, I always enjoyed driving the F30 330e and was always pretty impressed with its performance. I’ve always driven one with juice in the battery. I live in a condo with garage parking where I could not easily charge a plug-in hybrid. My parking space is close to a storage room and I even considered whether I could run an extension cord from there to my car, but I knew I would run into a Karen or two who would unplug it. I even posted a thread on F30Post asking opinions and, of course, the overwhelming response was “no, don’t do it” and quite a bit of discussion about hauling around dead weight if I drove it uncharged and losing mpgs if I drove it in self-charge mode with the motor charging the battery. So, I would say there absolutely is a reason not to have a plug-in hybrid if you don’t have an easy way to charge it.

Whoever told you that was... To be blunt, an idiot.

Yes, there's a weight penalty, but there's also a "free thrust" from the electric motor to compensate. If you can't charge it, then it's just a hybrid vehicle, regenerating power when you decelerate. Now of you can't charge it, you'll likely never see an ROI based on fuel savings, and that's what really matters (I wouldn't buy a PHEV in your case either) but you're not going to use more fuel in a PHEV that isn't charged.

That said, I think you missed the context of my comment. My comment was "it makes no sense to have a fairly large hybrid battery that is not a plug in". For example, if the 330e had an optional charge port, everyone would buy that option because not having it would be stupid, and it would have no downside except being a $250 or whatever option.

Caveat, a lot of peop.wpuld buy it without the charge port because they would assume the charge port came standard.

tturedraider wrote

I would completely disagree with that. I’ve actually been a fairly big fan of the 330e. I haven’t driven a G20 330e, but I’ve driven an F30 330e quite a few times. As I think about it I may have driven a G20 330e once at a BMW driving event. Anyway, I always enjoyed driving the F30 330e and was always pretty impressed with its performance. I’ve always driven one with juice in the battery. I live in a condo with garage parking where I could not easily charge a plug-in hybrid. My parking space is close to a storage room and I even considered whether I could run an extension cord from there to my car, but I knew I would run into a Karen or two who would unplug it. I even posted a thread on F30Post asking opinions and, of course, the overwhelming response was “no, don’t do it” and quite a bit of discussion about hauling around dead weight if I drove it uncharged and losing mpgs if I drove it in self-charge mode with the motor charging the battery. So, I would say there absolutely is a reason not to have a plug-in hybrid if you don’t have an easy way to charge it.

Meanwhile it would be of no interest to me since I can plugin and prefer to do so. I highly doubt you would even notice the weight. Then again I would just go for a BEV instead of a HEV since one of my favorite things about my BEV is never going to the gas station.

And this is why they make different cars for different people.

BlkGS wrote

There is no reason not to have a plug in though. If you never use it no big deal. If you do, cool that's less gasoline burned.

BlkGS wrote

Whoever told you that was... To be blunt, an idiot.

Yes, there's a weight penalty, but there's also a "free thrust" from the electric motor to compensate. If you can't charge it, then it's just a hybrid vehicle, regenerating power when you decelerate. Now of you can't charge it, you'll likely never see an ROI based on fuel savings, and that's what really matters (I wouldn't buy a PHEV in your case either) but you're not going to use more fuel in a PHEV that isn't charged.

That said, I think you missed the context of my comment. My comment was "it makes no sense to have a fairly large hybrid battery that is not a plug in". For example, if the 330e had an optional charge port, everyone would buy that option because not having it would be stupid, and it would have no downside except being a $250 or whatever option.

Caveat, a lot of peop.wpuld buy it without the charge port because they would assume the charge port came standard.

Where did you say that?? I went back to see if you said something before the quote I responded to and I couldn’t find anything.

Just how much regenerative power do imagine is produced when braking?

I’m not sure what “optional charge port” you’re referring to.

Is this what you are talking about?

^ I'm a bit confused at the 'optional charge port' also, all hybrids should have them as standard, can't just rely on engine and braking to charge the lith battery.

M5Rick wrote

^ I'm a bit confused at the 'optional charge port' also, all hybrids should have them as standard, can't just rely on engine and braking to charge the lith battery.

Not all hybrids plug in; those without have less range. Not sure it’s all regenerative braking though that certainly helps — a more powerful alternator can help charge a smaller drive battery. https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a46414049/toyota-prius-vs-prius-prime-test-results/#

tturedraider wrote

Where did you say that?? I went back to see if you said something before the quote I responded to and I couldn’t find anything.

Just how much regenerative power do imagine is produced when braking?

I’m not sure what “optional charge port” you’re referring to.

Is this what you are talking about?

I was responding to another guy who said he wanted a vehicle with a small battery, electric motors, and a small generator to keep the batteries charged. I said that's basically what a Ramcharger is, and he said he didn't want it to be plug in. I said that's silly not not have a plug in. People said the making it a plug in would make it too expensive.

My point was that if there was a car that had the same battery pack and electric motor, and it was either a regular hybrid, or as an option you could add a charging port, nobody would not buy that option, except for a handful of dummies who thought it was standard.

BlkGS wrote

The cost to add charging for a small battery is negligible. $100 tops.

I don't consider a 15 to 20 kWh battery as small. I think there is more than $100 of added (manufacturing) cost to have a DCFC-capable built-in charging system along with the complexity of an on-board generator system.

dreamingat30fps wrote

Meanwhile it would be of no interest to me since I can plugin and prefer to do so. I highly doubt you would even notice the weight. Then again I would just go for a BEV instead of a HEV since one of my favorite things about my BEV is never going to the gas station.

And this is why they make different cars for different people.

I really don't understand this sentiment. What is so distasteful about "going to the gas station"? And you have several ICEV in your fleet, so you still have to go to the gas station. Not a flame. I just really don't understand what is so off putting about a gas station.

Do you still go to Blockbuster to get movies?

Welcome to Canada:happyanim:

Tesla’s official map of its charging network shows that its Superchargers are noticeably absent in Canada’s northern provinces.

“We are in the Yukon, which is pretty cool because all the chargers are free,” he said in a recent video. “It’s free because it’s one charge post. I waited an hour to be able to plug in here and I will have to change for like two and a half hours to make it to the next charger.”

Before even getting to the Yukon, Bearded Tesla was battling with a charger that was shutting off every five minutes.

Three Tesla Cybertruck Owners Are Driving From Florida To The Arctic Circle And Already They Are Having Problems

https://jalopnik.com/three-tesla-cybertruck-owners-are-driving-from-florida-1851637005

Efthreeoh wrote

I really don't understand this sentiment. What is so distasteful about "going to the gas station"? And you have several ICEV in your fleet, so you still have to go to the gas station. Not a flame. I just really don't understand what is so off putting about a gas station.

Same. I get gas at Sam's or Costco. I'm at one, or both, of them at least once a week .taking an extra 5 minutes to get gas before or after getting groceries is super easy and convenient.

BlkGS wrote

Same. I get gas at Sam's or Costco. I'm at one, or both, of them at least once a week .taking an extra 5 minutes to get gas before or after getting groceries is super easy and convenient.

I fill up my G82 yesterday only take 6 mins. It is good for another 500km of joy ride.

Efthreeoh wrote

I really don't understand this sentiment. What is so distasteful about "going to the gas station"? And you have several ICEV in your fleet, so you still have to go to the gas station. Not a flame. I just really don't understand what is so off putting about a gas station.

I would have said the same until I owned an EV.

Is it the worst thing in the world? No. These are all first world problems as they say, but if I want to take the miata out in the morning to go for breakfast up the mountain and I get in and see it doesn’t have enough gas. Now I have to stop what I was going to do to go to Walmart or what not to put gas before I can do what I wanted. Maybe it takes 10-15min extra to get there put gas etc… not a big deal, but when I’m in FL for the winter where I basically only drive the Tesla and I come back to NC where I have 3 ICE vehicles I notice how much I actually dislike it. Again it was something that surprised me when I got my Tesla how much I disliked having to put gas. Would have never guessed at that being a benefit until I experienced it.

BlkGS wrote

I was responding to another guy who said he wanted a vehicle with a small battery, electric motors, and a small generator to keep the batteries charged. I said that's basically what a Ramcharger is, and he said he didn't want it to be plug in. I said that's silly not not have a plug in. People said the making it a plug in would make it too expensive.

My point was that if there was a car that had the same battery pack and electric motor, and it was either a regular hybrid, or as an option you could add a charging port, nobody would not buy that option, except for a handful of dummies who thought it was standard.

Thanks for the answer. And the other two questions?