The Airplane Thread

Now, now.... give Boeing credit.

They've done an absolutely *fantastic* job on the KC-46.

Aw hell.... I can't even *type* that with a straight face.

R.

flybigjet wrote

Now, now.... give Boeing credit.

They've done an absolutely *fantastic* job on the KC-46.

Aw hell.... I can't even *type* that with a straight face.

Is the KC-46 the tanker with the FOD problem straight out of the factory, or the one with the defective boom? It's getting hard to keep track of these things.....

vreihen16 wrote

Is the KC-46 the tanker with the FOD problem straight out of the factory, or the one with the defective boom? It's getting hard to keep track of these things.....

Simple. Same jet.

Critical failures so bad that the CINC of AMC tried to kill it.

But.... Congress and special interests were a little too deep into the trough for that to happen.

R.

Llarry wrote

In late 2023, NATO announced a plan to replace their vintage E-3A AWACS aircraft with six Boeing E-7A Wedgetails. This year they have revisited that decision and now plan to replace the E-3s with up to ten SAAB GlobalEye airborne early warning and control aircraft. The GlobalEye is based on the Bombardier 6000/6500 airframe and NATO hopes to take delivery of the GlobalEye and retire the E-3 as early as 2030.

The airborne warning and control mission was the first joint effort by NATO members and dates back to 1982 when the first E-3As were delivered.

In the decades since, NATO members have greatly expanded joint operations of aircraft:

-- A planned force of 12 Airbus A330 MRTT transport refuelers based in the Netherlands and Germany and operated by 9 NATO member nations.

-- A unit of 3 C-17A transports based in Hungary and operated by 12 member nations

-- A multinational force of Airbus A400M transports operated by 7 member nations. This force does not own any aircraft; A400Ms are made available from member states' air forces.

-- A unit with 5 RQ-4D Phoenix large UAVs based in Sigonella, Sicily, and designated the NATO Intelligence, Surveillance and Reconnaissance Force. The RQ-4D's main payload is an advanced ground surveillance radar.

-- Just announced this year, a unit with up to 5 MQ-4C Triton maritime surveillance UAVs. Participating members are Denmark, Finland, Germany and Norway. Details as to timing and operating location are not yet clear, though given the participants, I would expect an operating location in Northern Europe.

It's worth adding that the above basing is flexible; aircraft can be deployed to a variety of locations.

Longish, but worth the watch

flybigjet wrote

Simple. Same jet.

Critical failures so bad that the CINC of AMC tried to kill it.

But.... Congress and special interests were a little too deep into the trough for that to happen.

R.

You mean the kickback machine.

A new fighter program is pending formal announcement. Canada, Italy, Japan and the UK will cooperate on an advanced technology aircraft. See the attached graphic.

Meanwhile, the RCAF is expecting its first CF-35A stealth fighter later this year. The first few CF-35As will be used for training in the USA, with deliveries to CFB Cold Lake, Alberta, scheduled for 2028. The status of RCAF fighters seems to be still very much undecided -- will Canada buy 88 CF-35As as originally planned? (They have already ordered 30.) Will the RCAF also buy the SAAB Gripen as a lightweight non-stealth fighter?

.

Obviously photoshop JJ. Everybody knows that Fokker D-3 refueled with a probe and basket design.

The Korean Air Force (ROKAF) operates a large number of surveillance, reconnaissance and electronic warfare aircraft. This month they have added to the total with an order for two Bombardier Global 6500-based standoff jamming aircraft to be delivered by 2034. They contracted last year for four Global 6500-based airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft which should be delivered by 2032.

The ROKAF currently operates:
-- Four Boeing 737-based AEW&C (E-7) aircraft. It is not clear whether the smaller G6500-based AEW&C will replace these or supplement them.
-- Four RQ-4B Global Hawk large UAVs. (not pictured)
-- Four Hawker 800-based RC-800SIG signals intelligence (SIGINT) aircraft (not pictured)
-- Four Hawker 800-based RC-800A intelligence/surveillance/reconnaissance aircraft
-- Two Dassault Falcon-based RC-2000B SIGINT aircraft
-- For tactical reconnaissance, pods carried by ROKAF F-16s (not pictured)

Considering the relatively compact geography of Korea, this is an impressive total.

An update on the Boeing P-8 Poseidon:

The P-8 is roughly similar to Boeing's 737-800ERX model, but with numerous modifications to suit its maritime patrol and surveillance mission. Some of the modifications accommodate the needs for low-level missions and more aggressive maneuvering than civil counterparts. The P-8 is also structurally stronger and uses stronger wings from the 737-900. The wings have raked wingtips rather than winglets. Given the extensive electronic equipment of the P-8, the generators on each engine were upgraded from 90 kVA to 180 kVA.

The P-8 crew consists of at least two pilots, -- with a third added for longer-duration missions -- on the flight deck. Back in the cabin are five mission consoles, normally operated in the USN by two Naval Flight Officers and three enlisted aircrewmen. Again, for longer flights relief crew are often added. There are crew rest seats in the rear.

During the development phase, the Navy opted to not include a magnetic anomaly detector, which is effective only at low altitude. The initial export customer, India, decided to include MAD in their aircraft, which also have other Indian Navy-specific differences. Other export customers no doubt have specified unique equipment to meet their needs.

Thye P-8 has 5 hardpoints in the smallish bomb bay just aft of the wing and 6 external hardpoints. Typical weapons include ASW torpedoes and the related HAAWC, a guided glide vehicle which can be launched from altitude and carries a homing torpedo down to low level. External weapons can include Harpoon antiship cruise missiles, mines, depth charges and a variety of other weapons. The P-8A generally would not operate in a high-threat environment but is equipped with various self-protection electronic warfare systems.

U.S. Navy:
The USN has 12 operational patrol squadrons (VPs) that deploy worldwide. Each squadron is assigned 6 P-8As and 12 crews. The force is evenly split between the U.S. east and west coasts, with 6 VPs homeported at NAS Jacksonville, Florida and 6 homeported at NAS Whidbey Island, Washington. There is also a single training unit, VP-30, at Jacksonville. There are also two Naval Reserve squadrons flying the P-8A. Other P-8As are assigned to test duties. The total number delivered to the USN is 138. The current budget submission proposes restarting production with a buy of 12 additional aircraft. These may be meant as attrition aircraft as the P-8 is likely to be in service for many years. To my knowledge, only one aircraft has been lost to date -- a P-8A landing at Kaneohe Bay, Hawaii, ran off the end of the runway into the sea and has been written off.

Indian Navy:
India was the first export customer for the P-8. As mentioned above, there were a number of differences that resulted in the Indian version being designated P-8I. After buying 12 aircraft, India decided to augment the force was another 6 P-8Is. The timing was unfortunate, though, with 2025 price increases. I believe that India has decided to go through with the buy. Given the world economic situation, I wouldn't want to bet on it.

Australia:
The Royal Australian Air Force selected the P-8A in 2007 and actually placed an order in 2012. The RAAF operates 14 P-8As, with the final aircraft delivered in 2026.

United Kingdom:
The RAF took delivery of its first Poseidon MRA Mk 1 in 2019. 9 aircraft are operated by two squadrons from RAF Lossiemouth.

Norway:
Norway ordered 5 P-8As in 2017 with deliveries complete by 2023.

New Zealand:
The RNZAF ordered 4 P-8As in 2019. and these aircraft were delivered in 2022-23.

Korea:
The ROKN also ordered P-8As in 2019. The aircraft were delivered in 2024.

Germany:
Germany initially ordered 5 P-8As in 2021 and then added 3 more in 2023.

Canada:
Canada's existing force of CP-140s is tired. Several years of studies and proposals culminated in an order for "up to 16" CP-8As in 2023. Delivery of the first aircraft has slipped from this year to 2027. Given cost increases, the ultimate number of aircraft might be reduced from 16. The plan is to station aircraft in both Nova Scotia and British Columbia.

Singapore:
The latest customer is Singapore, though no details as to the number of P-8s involved have yet been released.

No more Recaro's such a shame.

Norwegian firm Kongsberg, in cooperation with American firm Raytheon, has come up with an excellent multi-role stealthy cruise missile that is being adopted by a number of NATO and other countries. Dubbed the Joint Strike Missile (JSM) (U.S. designation AGM-184A Kraken), it appears to me that it will replace the long-serving Harpoon cruise missile. Like, the Harpoon, it can also be fired from ships or mobile launchers on shore for coastal defense (with a rocket booster.) In the rocket-boosted configuration, it is called the Naval Strike Missile.

As you might expect given the decades since the Harpoon was developed, the JSM has many improvements. Here are some specs:
Length 4.0 m (13 ft 1 in) -- it fits in the weapons bay of an F-35A, thereby preserving stealth until firing
Weight 416 kg (917 lbs)
Speed Mach 0.9
Range 555 km (300 nm) optimal range with high-altitude cruise; 350 km+ (190 nm+) at low altitude
Warhead 120 kg (260 lb) blast-fragmentation
Guidance by GPS, inertial nav, terrain-following, radar-homing or imaging infrared. Two-way data link capability.

The JSM can be carried internally (1-2 missiles) in the F-35A or F-35C (The F-35B's weapons bay is smaller and cannot accommodate the missile). It can also be carried externally by the F-35 (up to 4 missiles), F-15E, F-16 and F-18E/F.

The initial live firing of the JSM took place in 2015 and serial production began in 2021.

Users:
-- Norway: (home fo the main production facility) The JSM became operational on Norway's F-35As in 2025
-- Australia: (construction of a production facility is underway)
-- USA: (construction of a production facility has begun) Missiles were ordered beginning in 2025
-- Japan: Deliveries have begun, but the JSM is not yet operational
-- Belgium: Purchases were announced in 2025
-- Germany: Purchases were announced in 2025 with initial deliveries expected by 2027
-- Canada: Canada placed a C$800 million order earlier this month

There are several other potential users: Finland and Italy have shown interest. Given the perfect fit with the F-35A, I would predict that other F-35 operators would show interest in the JSM.

Pan-Am Flight 525A was just recovered in 2000 feet of water near Porto Rico after ditching at sea on the 11th April 1952.

Story here: Pan Am Flight 526A - Wikipedia

Lady Jane wrote

Pan-Am Flight 525A was just recovered in 2000 feet of water near Porto Rico after ditching at sea on the 11th April 1952.

Story here: Pan Am Flight 526A - Wikipedia

The Douglas DC-4 (US military C-54) was responsible for a great leap forward in air travel in the 1940s with its continent- and ocean-spanning range. The reciprocating air-cooled piston engines of the era were technically advanced, but in the decades since, the gas turbine has proved to be far more reliable. The four-engined airplane is now going away as more economical yet powerful twin turbofans dominate civil aviation. The thought of a large twin-engine aircraft like a Boeing 777 would have been incomprehensible in that era and yet we now routinely buy tickets on twin-engine airliners that fly intercontinental distances and worry little about engine reliability.

The poster child for piston engine reliability nightmares that I think of is the Martin SP-5B Marlin flying boat patrol plane of the U.S. and French navies. The P5M (old designation) first flew in 1951 and remained in service until 1966. It was powered by twin Wright R-3350 engines. The problem was that if an engine failed, the airplane could not maintain altitude on the remaining R-3350.

In 1965, my new Honda 65cc motorcycle was purchased in Japan by a Martin techrep and brought back to the Philippines. That was great, but there was a catch -- if an engine failed during the return flight, my motorcycle (already paid for) along with plenty of other items would be jettisoned in order the keep the aircraft airborne for as long as possible while the SP-5B looked for a possible landing in the Ryukyus or Taiwan or the northern Philippines. Fortunately, the flight back was drama-free and I got my bike.

Llarry wrote

In 1965, my new Honda 65cc motorcycle

65cc or do you mean 650cc...?

Lady Jane wrote

Llarry wrote

In 1965, my new Honda 65cc motorcycle

65cc or do you mean 650cc...?

Honda only made small bikes back in the stone ages. My guess is that Llarry bought a 1965 S65 Sports Cub (not to be confused with a Piper Cub):




.

Lady Jane wrote

Llarry wrote

In 1965, my new Honda 65cc motorcycle

65cc or do you mean 650cc...?

1965 Honda S65. A mighty 65cc single. The other issue with getting a bike through the techrep was that you had no choice as to make or model. You gave him a couple of hundred dollars and he promised to look around and find you something up in Japan. I was 17 years old and didn't have much money to underwrite the whole effort. I was hoping for a Honda Super 90 -- that was about the apex of what we high school boys could hope for. A couple of the guys ended up with two-strokes and we ribbed them mercilessly. The techrep's son had a Honda CB77 (305cc twin) -- he was the exception and that was probably the largest bike on the base. I might add that the high schoolers with motorcycles had a restriction on their on-base registration -- the bikes could only be driven on base. The base was basically an 8,000-foot runway and no wider than perhaps 1,500 feet.

Mine was red. Otherwise Vreihen16's photo is spot on.

Edit: There was considerable heartburn among the high school girls that they couldn't have bikes. It was just a light murmur at the time but in the years since at high school reunions it kept coming up. All I can say is that 1965 was a very different era. (Also, I did teach my year-younger sister to ride the S65.)

Canadair CL-415 Super Scooper registered to the Government of Newfoundland.

Lady Jane wrote

Canadair CL-215 Super Scooper registered to the Government of Newfoundland.

Wait a minute... I seem to remember that you scolded me some years ago when I called a CL-215? CL-415? A Canadair, did you not? And told me that the airplane was now a Viking. Or perhaps I had a dream about firefighting aircraft last night...

If there is one thing I've learned on this board, it is that it does not pay to cross the Nurse.

Llarry wrote

Wait a minute... I seem to remember that you scolded me some years ago when I called a CL-215? CL-415? A Canadair, did you not? And told me that the airplane was now a Viking. Or perhaps I had a dream about firefighting aircraft last night...

I don't remember scolding although I am known to do it if required. The aircraft pictured, pre-dates the following info:

" The CL-415 water bomber is no longer manufactured in its original form, as production ended in 2015. The manufacturing rights, type certificates, and support program were acquired by Viking Air in 2016.
Today, Viking's parent company, De Havilland Aircraft of Canada, manufactures a modernized successor to the CL-415 known as the De Havilland Canadair 515 (DHC-515). Production on these new aircraft takes place at their facilities in Calgary and Victoria. De Havilland Canada also offers avionics upgrades for the existing global CL-415 fleet. "

Edit: De Havilland Canadair 515 - De Havilland Canada

If there is one thing I've learned on this board, it is that it does not pay to cross the Nurse. [/QUOTE]

Nurse crossing ;~).