Audi RS 5 (B10)

TR930 wrote

Morbid thought, but imagine a car collision in this thing, sheer mass of it.

Don't be silly - with the number of trucks and SUVs on the road, this RS5's weight is nothing.

TR930 wrote

Plus, not comfortable with these batteries in an accident either.

Why is that?
Plenty of EVs on the road, and they perform great in accidents.

TR930 wrote

The Chinese evs will outperform all these at a way lower cost.

True, but our politicians will not allow us to enjoy Chinese EVs for all sorts of silly reasons.

TR930 wrote

The essence of BMW used to be the mechanical driving experience

There is nothing essential about "mechanical" part of BMW value proposition.
As long as either BMW or Audi deliver engaging driving experience, the drivetrain flavor is secondary.

Cars are getting heavier with each model iteration. And bigger.
They are also getting more powerful, more frugal with gas, and technologically more advanced.
Fair trade-off.

As to RS5, I'm waiting to see how much it will cost, and test-driving one (if available) before making up my mind about it.
Specs are one thing, but driving impressions are what ultimately matters.

The car does look great, so it definitely has that going for it.
Way better than anything BMW has designed in decades!

a

afadeev wrote

Don't be silly - with the number of trucks and SUVs on the road, this RS5's weight is nothing.



Why is that?
Plenty of EVs on the road, and they perform great in accidents.



True, but our politicians will not allow us to enjoy Chinese EVs for all sorts of silly reasons.



There is nothing essential about "mechanical" part of BMW value proposition.
As long as either BMW or Audi deliver engaging driving experience, the drivetrain flavor is secondary.

Cars are getting heavier with each model iteration. And bigger.
They are also getting more powerful, more frugal with gas, and technologically more advanced.
Fair trade-off.

As to RS5, I'm waiting to see how much it will cost, and test-driving one (if available) before making up my mind about it.
Specs are on thing, but driving impressions are what ultimately matters.

The car does look great, so it definitely has that going for it.
Way better than anything BMW has designed in decades!

a

Funny, you just compared an Rs5 to an SUV and a truck.

Erupting in flames is not how I would describe an EV in terms of a great performance.

A car is a "machine" and as such it is of course mechanical. If you subscribe that there is nothing inherently important about the difference between a Honda driving machine and BMW, I would politely disagree. The difference is uniquely mechanical. EV cars do not share such a distinction in my opinion.

afadeev wrote

Don't be silly - with the number of trucks and SUVs on the road, this RS5's weight is nothing.

Dude, it's heavier than my truck...by hundreds of pounds!

TR930 wrote

Funny, you just compared an Rs5 to an SUV and a truck.

I did not say that.
What I did say is complaining about RS5 weight is silly when we have hordes of much heavier trucks and SUVs on the roads to which no-one objects.

RM7 wrote

Dude, it's heavier than my truck...by hundreds of pounds!

F150, the most popular truck in the US, weights between 4,391 lbs (4-banger) and 5,600 lbs (crew cab).
The upcoming RS5 sedan has a curb weight of 5,192 lbs.
That is lighter than most X5's (4,998 - 5,355 lbs).

TR930 wrote

Erupting in flames is not how I would describe an EV in terms of a great performance.

Care to share any facts to substantiate your conspiracy theories about EV catching fire frequently than ICE cars?

I know you don't, but figure I will give you a chance any way....

TR930 wrote

If you subscribe that there is nothing inherently important about the difference between a Honda driving machine and BMW, I would politely disagree.

There is nothing inherently different between a Honda and a BMW.
Both brands have built great cars in the past, and both are building plenty of sh*t right now.

I will buy, and enjoy drivin,g any vehicle of any brand that puts a smile on my face. To date, that has been true about most true ///M cars (not trucks, and not M-branded packages).
The same complement could be extended to a few Honda products: NSX, S2000, and Integra Type R immediately come to mind.

Today, both BMW and Honda have gone adrift into the wilderness of increasing mediocrity.
Thus my interest in RS5 and a few Porsches.

TR930 wrote

The difference is uniquely mechanical. EV cars do not share such a distinction in my opinion.

Great handling EVs are as much fun to drive as great handling ICE cars.
Model 3 Performance comes to mind.

Car guys don't let drive-train politics ruin the fun!

a

5200 lbs?

That's almost bang on what my E70 X5D weighs.

You just compared an RS5 to Trucks and SUVs again. You just said it was comparable.

A great handling ICE 6MT car is nothing like an EV. Great handling or not.

Funny, you say nothing is inherently different between a BMW and Honda, but yet there is something different between a "true M car" and a M badged one? M badged cars don't put a smile on your face. What difference is that? Mechanical?

It looks like between EV's, ICE and Hybrid cars, hybrids have the highest incendents of fires per 100,000 cars. I guess it must be the batteries and gasoline on board.

All I can say is the F90 M5CS will go down as the pinnacle and swan song of this genre of car. There will never be another like it.

5200 lbs is heavier than my M850i by a lot. Hopefully Audi realizes this is nonsense and goes back to something not hybrid.
M850i by comparison weighs 4758 lbs. Even with my lard ass in my M850i I am still lighter than the RS5.
Hopefully they stop with the stupid naming convention madness too. They are killing off iconic naming conventions that people actually understood. I would rather say I drive an A4 than A4 55 TFSI. Whoever names their vehicles needs a good hard kick square in the nuts.
I will say that the new RS5 does look really nice though. Even though a basic copy of the S5 (Which I don't like the look of) somehow pulls it off much better.
With the European price of 90,000 Crowns though... This thing is gonna be like $125k when pricing comes out. A shame as that will price it out of a lot people's budgets. COVID made cars about $3k-4k more in general. Even with nothing done to it you would have been $84k with no options. Adding this PHEV will likely drive this at least into the $100k range.

It seems to be how the industry has evolved in how they make a car, how they make the parts, putting on the parts, everything bolts together, etc. It's similar IMO to how a traditional airplane is made with ribs/frame and sheet-metal and rivets. There are many non-traditional planes now, like Diamond, using a carbon fiber or CFRP main spar/box and structures that are based on modern (at least more modern) materials and technology. The best we can seem to do in the auto-industry is a CF roof or hood, but everything seems to keep going further in the bolt-together direction. I know there are concerns about repairability, but for certain things, the repair with CF is actually easier (have repaired my bicycles and even wheels a few times), although the process has to be done correctly.

It seems like no one cares to push the true pursuit of lightweight. Maybe because they have to share the chassis with 10 other vehicles and SUVs and everything needs to bolt on for the respective model. As a cost-saving measure that basically prevents the weight from being optimized, it will continue in this direction IMO.

We still see some of this in aviation too, where a new Cessna 172 off the production line weighs as much as a 1980 Cessna 182 RG, which gets bizarre when you think about how the 182 has a much heavier engine and heavier landing gear system, besides overall heavier structure. The flat-panel and solid state avionics were supposed to weigh less, yet somehow they make the airplanes weigh more. Some of the safety equipment is better, better seats and belts...but still, it should be going in the other direction. But I digress, it's real hard to take one of those legacy airplanes like a King Air and make it weigh less...you basically have to start from scratch like Diamond...but damn, it should be possible.

It's likely just a cost issue and for them, the cost to benefit isn't worth it. Again, there are several examples showing cars with batteries don't need to weigh crazy heavy.

This car would likely be nearly as quick without the heft of the hybrid system silliness. How much did we think that non-repairable rear diff/hybrid unit is from Audi? $25K?

Sexy car on the outside, cool small displacement TTV8, super dumb dashboard and camo CF, excessive weight, compensating exhaust tips, and needlessly complicated.

XutvJet wrote

This car would likely be nearly as quick without the heft of the hybrid system silliness. How much did we think that non-repairable rear diff/hybrid unit is from Audi? $25K?

Sexy car on the outside, cool small displacement TTV8, super dumb dashboard and camo CF, excessive weight, compensating exhaust tips, and needlessly complicated.

But not really, because it's that initial pedal response kick that hybrid can provide and with 99% caring only about straight-line acceleration...that tends to be all that matters. Most people live in a city too...handling in turns just isn't a thing (for the majority of people).

RM7 wrote

It seems to be how the industry has evolved in how they make a car, how they make the parts, putting on the parts, everything bolts together, etc. It's similar IMO to how a traditional airplane is made with ribs/frame and sheet-metal and rivets. There are many non-traditional planes now, like Diamond, using a carbon fiber or CFRP main spar/box and structures that are based on modern (at least more modern) materials and technology. The best we can seem to do in the auto-industry is a CF roof or hood, but everything seems to keep going further in the bolt-together direction. I know there are concerns about repairability, but for certain things, the repair with CF is actually easier (have repaired my bicycles and even wheels a few times), although the process has to be done correctly.

It seems like no one cares to push the true pursuit of lightweight. Maybe because they have to share the chassis with 10 other vehicles and SUVs and everything needs to bolt on for the respective model. As a cost-saving measure that basically prevents the weight from being optimized, it will continue in this direction IMO.

We still see some of this in aviation too, where a new Cessna 172 off the production line weighs as much as a 1980 Cessna 182 RG, which gets bizarre when you think about how the 182 has a much heavier engine and heavier landing gear system, besides overall heavier structure. The flat-panel and solid state avionics were supposed to weigh less, yet somehow they make the airplanes weigh more. Some of the safety equipment is better, better seats and belts...but still, it should be going in the other direction. But I digress, it's real hard to take one of those legacy airplanes like a King Air and make it weigh less...you basically have to start from scratch like Diamond...but damn, it should be possible.

It's likely just a cost issue and for them, the cost to benefit isn't worth it. Again, there are several examples showing cars with batteries don't need to weigh crazy heavy.

BMW tried it with the i3 and i8, incredibly expensive to build and was ultimately a commercial failure.

RM7 wrote

But not really, because it's that initial pedal response kick that hybrid can provide and with 99% caring only about straight-line acceleration...that tends to be all that matters. Most people live in a city too...handling in turns just isn't a thing (for the majority of people).

Handling in turns just isnt a thing? . . .

brianeck wrote

Handling in turns just isnt a thing? . . .

For a vast majority of drivers? Yeah. They just want a comfortable ride, safety tech, and creature comforts. If people really cared about how a vehicle handles and wanted great handling, you'd see a lot less trucks and SUVs on the road.....which dominate the US road landscape.

XutvJet wrote

For a vast majority of drivers? Yeah. They just want a comfortable ride, safety tech, and creature comforts. If people really cared about how a vehicle handles and wanted great handling, you'd see a lot less trucks and SUVs on the road.....which dominate the US road landscape.

Are you sure this is the primary driving factor or are you ignoring Section 179 and the results it's had on the auto industry since the 2000s?

Audi fans trolling the looks. Just goes to show that you can't make everyone happy. People will always find a reason to complain.

They should have went quad exhaust.

kudos wrote

They should have went quad exhaust.

No way, the ovals are classic RS.

Because people care way more about what the exhaust looks like than how it handles.

#truthiness

RM7 wrote

Because people care way more about what the exhaust looks like than how it handles.

#truthiness

It's the only thing to talk about right now since nobody knows how it handles.

RM7 wrote

Because people care way more about what the exhaust looks like than how it handles.

#truthiness

This is a very instagram like post for a forum. Shame.

Driving impressions: