Custom ECU Tuners

I found a list of ECU flashes but not custom tunes. Is there a list that I missed?
if not, lets start one.

Unless your car is 'custom' there is no benefit of a custom tune.

Even if your car is custom then there may already be a tune out there for that setup.

The mechanical tolerances are extremely small accross these engines.

Unless of course you want a custom type of map such as specific changes to the throttle maps or purely driveability modifications and no full power changes etc etc.

Sal@Evolve wrote

Unless your car is 'custom' there is no benefit of a custom tune.

Even if your car is custom then there may already be a tune out there for that setup.

The mechanical tolerances are extremely small accross these engines.

Unless of course you want a custom type of map such as specific changes to the throttle maps or purely driveability modifications and no full power changes etc etc.

This is correct.

The MSS60 will adapt and make corrections on the fly for each cylinder in the S65 motor when needed. Most tuners have software for small changes like catless exhaust systems that work perfectly fine. The only reason anyone would ever need a custom tune on this car is if they wanted something specific like a custom RPM limit, idle or they made a significant change such as cams or higher displacement.

I have heard that the engine management is a "target" based closed loop type system that will adapt to different modifications. Is this correct? and can you elaborate more on how the factory engine management works?

The reason for this post is when researching PencilGeeks Dyno Thread there seemed to be common that the "custom" ECU tune was always on top of the charts even on the standard 4.0l with bolt on mods.

The Database

I can tell you that my custom PC map made A LOT more power than my off the shelf map. According to some, I wasted my money by paying for a "custom" map , but my cars consistently strong performance tells me otherwise.

There's a lot of political BS on this forum that clouds the information that is actually posted. My advice is to take sponsor's opinions with a grain of salt.

Just my .02 .

My problem is that I tune vehicles for a living and I know what is typically left on the table. I don't believe that this car is any different. I am just looking for little more insight.

powertrip wrote

I can tell you that my custom PC map made A LOT more power than my off the shelf map. According to some, I wasted my money by paying for a "custom" map , but my cars consistently strong performance tells me otherwise.

There's a lot of political BS on this forum that clouds the information that is actually posted. My advice is to take sponsor's opinions with a grain of salt.

Just my .02 .

I agree powertrip talk is cheap. Instead of talking about how much better a custom tune is let's test it and find out exactly how much better it is. How about we meet at a dyno near you in CA and do a real test in a controlled environment. We can dyno your custom tune and then load our standard tune in your car and re-dyno. If your custom tune makes more power than our standard tune we will buy you lunch PC would be more than welcome to attend but if they don’t want to we will of course re-install your custom tune when the testing is done.

AJ and I will be in socal several times over the next 6 weeks so it should be very easy to arrange this test. We will of course pay for the dyno time.

Tuning for more HP is one thing, but tuning to make the car feel better as a daily and for more power all around is another story. Depends on which you want.

I can tell you that my ECU flash from "wherever I got it from" works really well and it was worth every $.

Rom3n wrote

I agree powertrip talk is cheap. Instead of talking about how much better a custom tune is let's test it and find out exactly how much better it is. How about we meet at a dyno near you in CA and do a real test in a controlled environment. We can dyno your custom tune and then load our standard tune in your car and re-dyno. If your custom tune makes more power than our standard tune we will buy you lunch PC would be more than welcome to attend but if they don’t want to we will of course re-install your custom tune when the testing is done.

AJ and I will be in socal several times over the next 6 weeks so it should be very easy to arrange this test. We will of course pay for the dyno time.

I would love to see this. I'll offer a up my dyno but you probably don't want to make the trip to Ohio. (Trust me from Denver to here make you wish cars had auto pilot)

Can you elaborate on the engine management on these cars?

You've got yourself a deal Roman, as long as I get to keep your tune if it makes more power . I'm in close proximity to several dynos here in Orange County. PM when you have figured out a date and I'll give you all of my contact info.

Rom3n wrote

I agree powertrip talk is cheap. Instead of talking about how much better a custom tune is let's test it and find out exactly how much better it is. How about we meet at a dyno near you in CA and do a real test in a controlled environment. We can dyno your custom tune and then load our standard tune in your car and re-dyno. If your custom tune makes more power than our standard tune we will buy you lunch PC would be more than welcome to attend but if they don’t want to we will of course re-install your custom tune when the testing is done.

AJ and I will be in socal several times over the next 6 weeks so it should be very easy to arrange this test. We will of course pay for the dyno time.

powertrip wrote

You've got yourself a deal Roman, as long as I get to keep your tune if it makes more power . I'm in close proximity to several dynos here in Orange County. PM when you have figured out a date and I'll give you all of my contact info.

This is good you guys, good for all of us!

powertrip wrote

You've got yourself a deal Roman, as long as I get to keep your tune if it makes more power . I'm in close proximity to several dynos here in Orange County. PM when you have figured out a date and I'll give you all of my contact info.

Excellent you got a deal I will PM you with some dates and let me know if any of them work.

powertrip wrote

I can tell you that my custom PC map made A LOT more power than my off the shelf map. According to some, I wasted my money by paying for a "custom" map , but my cars consistently strong performance tells me otherwise.

There's a lot of political BS on this forum that clouds the information that is actually posted. My advice is to take sponsor's opinions with a grain of salt.

Just my .02 .

I think maybe ESS's and our interpretation of 'custom tune' maybe different to yours.

Information will soon be made very clear so there is no clouding and no amount of political BS should cloud the whole understanding of tuning again.

Sal@Evolve wrote

I think maybe ESS's and our interpretation of 'custom tune' maybe different to yours.

Information will soon be made very clear so there is no clouding and no amount of political BS should cloud the whole understanding of tuning again.

Why can't it be made clear now?

PencilGeek wrote

Here's what was discussed in a previous thread...

I've read in a previous thread that clearing adaptation values during a reflash can cause a 10-15hp gain on the dyno. That's why I'd like to see a few people with custom tunes go back to the same dyno a month or more later to try to duplicate their results. If a few people did this simple test and posted their results, then this discussion could be put to rest.

Maybe one or more of the tuners reading this thread can comment on the dyno effects of clearing adaptation values.

I would assume you should be able to duplicate this effect by simply resetting the ECM after some baselines and preforming more test runs. If it is easy to reset that is. Can any of the tuners elaborate the engine management in this vehicle.

Is it in continuous closed loop even under WOT? Are the adaptation values that PG speaks of fuel/IGN/Vanos/ETC or are the limited to just one.

It has to be governed by the same principles as any other engine management. That is why I don't believe a flash is a blanket solution for different combos.

FastE93 wrote

Ya custom tunes are bs...

I agree 100%, one-off 'custom tunes' are a fallacy on this car.

Customers have been sold on this concept, because many guys lack a basic understanding of how engines/ECU's work. (fact)

Or... they believe that cars are still tuned exactly the same way they were 5, 10, or even 15 years ago.

That leaves many BMW enthusiasts vulnerable to all sorts of bogus marketing propaganda. (regardless of the product being discussed)

New innovative engine management technologies are always advancing, always improving the tuning methods used in modern engines. The really good tuners are going to figure out the best way to utilize that new technology.

In order to build a safer, more reliable tune (that can also extract more horsepower and torque) vs. the conservative stock tuning loaded into OEM ECU's), will require a knowledge base that very few tuners actually have in regards to BMW cars.

The very complex encryption on our factory ECU's, means that any tuner will have his work cut out for him if he intends to write a file for our cars.

BMW's are notoriously difficult to tune properly, because that's how BMW AG wants it. They make it very difficult to access the raw software code, and many of the tables/maps are not easily manipulated. Tuning a M3 vs. tuning a Dodge diesel truck is like night and day. Even tuning a Porsche or Lambo is child's play compared to an M3.

BMW's are the most difficult cars in the world to tune.

Again...that's exactly how BMW want's it.

They set traps for tuners all the time...you guys just don't know about it since you never talk to the few individuals in the world who actually tune BMW ECU's for a living. (and have done so for the past 10-20 years)

Despite the best efforts of some members here to educate others, I have to admit this...

A very well executed marketing campaign is incredibly difficult to beat sometimes.

Man, I can't wait to see the posted results of this shootout. (and the comments that follow it)

Just my .02 fellas...

PencilGeek wrote

Here's what was discussed in a previous thread...

I've read in a previous thread that clearing adaptation values during a reflash can cause a 10-15hp gain on the dyno. That's why I'd like to see a few people with custom tunes go back to the same dyno a month or more later to try to duplicate their results. If a few people did this simple test and posted their results, then this discussion could be put to rest.

Maybe one or more of the tuners reading this thread can comment on the dyno effects of clearing adaptation values.

I dyno'd my car about 2 months after the PC tune in Houston and got similar results. I'll check with Driver Source to get my dyno results and will post them to the dyno db.

Lemans_Blue_M wrote

I agree 100%, one-off 'custom tunes' are a fallacy on this car.

Customers have been sold on this concept, because many guys lack a basic understanding of how engines/ECU's work. (fact)

Or... they believe that cars are still tuned exactly the same way they were 5, 10, or even 15 years ago.

That leaves many BMW enthusiasts vulnerable to all sorts of bogus marketing propaganda. (regardless of the product being discussed)

New innovative engine management technologies are always advancing, always improving the tuning methods used in modern engines. The really good tuners are going to figure out the best way to utilize that new technology.

In order to build a safer, more reliable tune (that can also extract more horsepower and torque) vs. the conservative stock tuning loaded into OEM ECU's), will require a knowledge base that very few tuners actually have in regards to BMW cars.

The very complex encryption on our factory ECU's, means that any tuner will have his work cut out for him if he intends to write a file for our cars.

BMW's are notoriously difficult to tune properly, because that's how BMW AG wants it. They make it very difficult to access the raw software code, and many of the tables/maps are not easily manipulated. Tuning a M3 vs. tuning a Dodge diesel truck is like night and day. Even tuning a Porsche or Lambo is child's play compared to an M3.

BMW's are the most difficult cars in the world to tune.

Again...that's exactly how BMW want's it.

They set traps for tuners all the time...you guys just don't know about it since you never talk to the few individuals in the world who actually tune BMW ECU's for a living. (and have done so for the past 10-20 years)

Despite the best efforts of some members here to educate others, I have to admit this...

A very well executed marketing campaign is incredibly difficult to beat sometimes.

Man, I can't wait to see the posted results of this shootout. (and the comments that follow it)

Just my .02 fellas...

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