Tires Rubbing. What are my options?

This past summer I supercharged my car with an ESS G1 kit. Along with the power I added some wider tires. I have PS4S tires on titan T-S5 rims 19x9.5 +22 275/30s front and 19x10.5 +25 305/30s rear. I have read of many people running these tire widths on the front and the rear without any rubbing (although perhaps not with these specific wheels). I have completely stock ZCP suspension.

The front tires are rubbing at the top 1/3rd of the inner bumper lip almost such that it is now flush with the outer contour of the bumper with some rubbing also on the inside of the wheel well lining near the where the aircleaner is piped through (somewhat expected due to the ESS aircleaner routing).

The rears didn't appear to be rubbing at all at first but after a ride on a bumpy road I noticed that they are rubbing on the top edge of the fender and left a decent amount of rubber buildup on that edge!!


I'm afraid I am going to rip my rear fenders and rub through the front bumper with much more driving so I have to come up with a solution. Being that my car is frozen blue this would not be a cheap repair. So what are my options? So far I can only really think of trading out the tires for another size but perhaps there is something else I can do? maybe something like increasing negative camber on the front and rear or slightly rolling my rear fenders? I am not driving the car right now as it is put away for the winter so hopefully I can get a game plan on what to do here shortly such that the car is ready for spring.

Thanks!

You need more negative camber upfront and 295 rear tires.

Ervin87 wrote

You need more negative camber upfront and 295 rear tires.

Is this a definite solution? Idk how much camber adjustment is available in the front. My alignment is set for stock currently.

I'm also confused as to why so many people run 305s with no rubbing in the rear. Perhaps my rim offset is causing the interference

Take a look at what APEX Expert@ApexRaceParts say on their fitment thread about running a 305 in the rear. They recommended an effective ET of 32mm when running a 305 on an 11 wide inch rim. I see your'e running a 305 on a 10.5 with ET 25. It means you need to run spacers in the rear (possibly 3 to 4mm) or switch to a 295 section width tire. I don't understand your description of where the fronts are rubbing and interfering. Photos would help. See article at link below. Hope this helps.

https://support.apexraceparts.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001593193-E9x-M3-Wheel-Tire-Fitment-Guide

I ground down the inner fender liner with a dremel on the rears of my car and I don't rub anymore. Fronts are tricky running 19's, I would have recommended 18's. I have aggressive 19's as well though - check it out on instagram "bigred_m3"

265/30/19 295/30/19 are the best sizes with no rubbing.

You can run your setup with more camber but you're doing 2 things.

1. contact patch is now less because of so much camber (you need the best contact patch to put power to the ground)
2. camber is so high that you're wearing the inside of the tire at an alarming rate

I run 305/30/19 on the rear of the car.
The rear wheels are factory 220s that have been widened to 11".
This yielded a final wheel spec of 19"X11",et43mm).
They do fit with no spacers, but at full droop (flying over a RR crossing) they would touch the V-Brace and rub the inner portion of the wheel well liner.
I added some 5mm spacers and the fit is now perfect (tire still touches the V-Brace but only when on jack stands).
Wheel spec is 19"X11", et38mm, with the addition of the 5 mm spacer.
Rear camber is -1.6 degrees.

Coincidentally, I just purchased a dedicated set of track wheels and tires and installed them this evening for a test drive tomorrow.

The rear track wheels are 18"X11", et44mm.
With the 5mm spacers, that makes them 18X11",et39mm.
So 1mm more inboard than my street wheels.
The new track tire is 305/35/18, which is nearly identical to my street tires in terms of width and diameter.

Front tires are 275/35/18.
Front wheels are 18" X 10", et25mm.

(I'll edit this post after tomorrow's test drive.)

Drove to the office, this morning.
Got out of my driveway and into the parking lot at work with no rubbing so far.
Tried to have the steering wheel turned as I dropped off the sidewalk and then again into the ramp for the parking lot.

Went out to the country and did some hard stops, some hard accelerations and some slalom maneuvers.

Pulled the wheels off, no evidence of touching.
Hopefully the same will be true at the track.

Sorry for the late response, life has been busy and Im now dealing with a broken wrist but nevertheless I need to get the car ready for spring. The tires are rubbing on all 4 corners on the body in the circled areas of the photos. On the front it's at the top of the bumpers and the rear it's at the 11:45-12:15 portion of the quarter panel/fender (rubber was building up there but I peeled it off after the last time I drove the car in the fall). I don't care nearly as much about fender liner rubbing as I do about rubbing on the bumper and fenders. Spacers I imagine will only make this problem first.

From what I gathered by reading some of your replies is that I have 2 options. Change out tires for another size or add negative camber. Id have to do some more cost analysis but I believe adding negative camber with accelerated tire wear would be cost beneficial to me in the long run opposed to buying new tires, mount and balance fees, and selling the old tires at a reduced rate. To this day I have yet to wear out tires on my m3 or my turbo miata from tread wear but instead they get too old and hard requiring replacement. I simply do not drive my cars enough per year to cause this wear so Im thinking about adding negative camber. But here is main question, is adding negative camber Going to be enough to stop the rubbing on my body panels? The last thing I want to do is get the car aligned for max negative camber without any special hardware just to have the tires still rub on the body forcing me to then get new tires.

Thanks!

There is the obvious, but super icky third option…wheels with different offsets?

Davisca455 wrote

There is the obvious, but super icky third option…wheels with different offsets?

Very icky option, one that I don't have any interest exploring but you are correct, that is an option

Bumping this. Need advice if adding negative camber will help me clear the body so I can make an informed decision before spring

I think adding more negative camber should, at the very least, decrease the severity of the rubbing.

Front:
One problem though, is that the factory alignment design up front, is pretty limited in how much additional negative camber can ultimately be achieved.
With the front alignment pins in, my camber was -0.9 degrees.
After removing the alignment pins, I was only able achieve -1.6 degrees.

DIY: Let's pull the front alignment pins

Maybe something like that would be enough, maybe not?

If you were to have front camber plates, then you could easily get all the way to -3.0 degrees, or anywhere between.
I run -2.0 degrees for my street setting without any noticeable accelerated tire wear, and -3.0 degrees when heading to the track.

I know some people that daily at -2.5 degrees.

Rear:
Again, the range of the factory hardware is limited, but I do believe that -2.0 degrees is in the realm of possibility.
I run -1.6 degrees at the rear, and for my car that seems to be the "Goldilocks" setting in terms of even tire wear at the track and no noticeable issues on the street.

Davisca455 wrote

I think adding more negative camber should, at the very least, decrease the severity of the rubbing.

Front:
One problem though, is that the factory alignment design up front, is pretty limited in how much additional negative camber can ultimately be achieved.
With the front alignment pins in, my camber was -0.9 degrees.
After removing the alignment pins, I was only able achieve -1.6 degrees.

DIY: Let's pull the front alignment pins

Maybe something like that would be enough, maybe not?

If you were to have front camber plates, then you could easily get all the way to -3.0 degrees, or anywhere between.
I run -2.0 degrees for my street setting without any noticeable accelerated tire wear, and -3.0 degrees when heading to the track.

I know some people that daily at -2.5 degrees.

Rear:
Again, the range of the factory hardware is limited, but I do believe that -2.0 degrees is in the realm of possibility.
I run -1.6 degrees at the rear, and for my car that seems to be the "Goldilocks" setting in terms of even tire wear at the track and no noticeable issues on the street.

Fantastic reply thank you!!! I think I'm gonna give it a shot. Im not opposed to adding camber plates to the car if I can get them to work with edc if I can eliminate this issue with them. Rear is close so I think giving some will help. I'll have to look into camber plates as I know nothing about them besides that they allow you more camber than stock.

Camber plates work with EDC (my car is EDC).

Here's a link to my camber plate install.

Camber Plate Installation (Vorshlag)

Camber adjustment at the rear happens from the bottom of the wheel so dont think that'll help you in the back.

M43S7RO wrote

Camber adjustment at the rear happens from the bottom of the wheel so dont think that'll help you in the back.

Wouldn't kicking the bottom of the tire outwards to create negative camber tuck the top of the tire in regardless of how it adjusts?

Joshbot007 wrote

M43S7RO wrote

Camber adjustment at the rear happens from the bottom of the wheel so dont think that'll help you in the back.

Wouldn't kicking the bottom of the tire outwards to create negative camber tuck the top of the tire in regardless of how it adjusts?

I think you are correct.
As the lower control arm gets extended the upright pivots around the upper link.

You might get a small movement up top but point is its not the same as pulling in the tops. Hopefully a little is all you need!

Davisca455 wrote

I think you are correct.
As the lower control arm gets extended the upright pivots around the upper link.

M43S7RO wrote

You might get a small movement up top but point is its not the same as pulling in the tops. Hopefully a little is all you need!

Davisca455 wrote

I think you are correct.
As the lower control arm gets extended the upright pivots around the upper link.

Agreed, it should tilt inboard at the top, but maybe not enough to cure the rubbing issue.

I'm of the opinion that more offset is the cure for a tire that large in the rear.