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09-30-2025LAST POST
Tambohamilton wrote
You can get thread forming taps for steel, too.

The point of the thread isn't sharp in any material; tip and root radius (or bevel) is part of the spec.

Tri-lobes are for self-tapping, and don't affect galvanic reactions since there's still metal to metal contact between bolt and part.

I agree; they aren't using a 'normal' hand tap for any of it.
The OD on the vast majority of HAND TAPS are actually sharp well defined points, they are done that way on purpose, because they are hand taps, not machine taps. The OD pf the tap forms the ID thread root in the aluminum of the pan, which is what were talking about. This is why OEMs DO NOT recommend going up to the next size and hand tapping a new thread, Time Serts are the top recommended way, followed by Helicoils. Tapping a larger hole is the last resort. Thread inserts aren't always possible, but where it is possible especially in joint that sees alot of action or high clamping force, this is the way.

I've never said roll forming was only for aluminum. However, I did imply that that tri lobes prevent galvanic corrosion, which is incorrect. Tri lobes help form the actual thread joint aluminum base parts. I originally said they are typically surface treated to help prevent and also a bunch of other stuff about oily wax coatings used in automated bolt feeding and torque machines which frequently need to be manned despite being automated. I deleted because it's getting into too much nerdy detail that no one here really cares about.
kyrix1st wrote
This is why I never let any shop change my M3's engine oil. Aluminum oil pan, steel bolt and a high turnover shop are just a troublesome combination.

You shouldn't always torque the bolts to 25Nm either, because oil residue between the oil pan thread and the bolt likely leads to OVER-tightening at that value. I've been sticking with 18Nm and they've held up fine for about a decade.
The only way to make sure it's done right and to your satisfaction is to do it yourself. And having spend a several years in NYC, I'd never let those ppl change my oil or park my car.
I have a time SERT kit if needed. It has the 12x1.5 and the seat cutter. I followed the procedure from an E60 M5 diy. If needed, I can sell it. PM me.

Pics added here
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Only use a time sert and diy if you can. I agree with previous posts. Then the insert is steel and the factory oil pan bolt will work fine. You can use cutting oil and some petrolleum jelly or vasoline on the tap (catches metal shavings). Then can pump some oil into the pan. Use red locktite on the insert.
Here is a video from WURTH Romania. It is old, but will show exactly how the
TIME-SERT works and how to do an install.

Link:
AndyW wrote
Well, I guess I didn't get it quite parallel...fitting leaks. Will replace copper seal with rubber and see if that fixes. Otherwise I guess I'm getting a new pan...ug.
Noticed edge of new threads had a burr...hand sanded that off and used rubber o-ring. No leaks! Hope this helps someone else with the same issue.
S85 builder wrote
EDIT: Oh and if anyone thinks I am Troy or I know the guy, you are seriously misinformed...
Really there is another person in Michigan that builds S85s? Have you built the most S85s in the world also? :bellyroll
tdott wrote
Really there is another person in Michigan that builds S85s? Have you built the most S85s in the world also? :bellyroll
You silly fool. The Detroit area has the most amount of machinists, assembly line workers, and engineers in the US. There/s only a few unique things about the S85 and S65 and that's not hard to figure out for any pro engine builder or someone in the industry to figure out. Idiots like you are what makes these forums turn into shit.
S85 builder wrote
You silly fool. The Detroit area has the most amount of machinists, assembly line workers, and engineers in the US. There/s only a few unique things about the S85 and S65 and that's not hard to figure out for any pro engine builder or someone in the industry to figure out. Idiots like you are what makes these forums turn into shit.
Go fuck yourself.
S85 builder wrote
You silly fool. The Detroit area has the most amount of machinists, assembly line workers, and engineers in the US. There/s only a few unique things about the S85 and S65 and that's not hard to figure out for any pro engine builder or someone in the industry to figure out. Idiots like you are what makes these forums turn into shit.
damn I think he missed the joke guys
S85 builder wrote
You silly fool. The Detroit area has the most amount of machinists, assembly line workers, and engineers in the US. There/s only a few unique things about the S85 and S65 and that's not hard to figure out for any pro engine builder or someone in the industry to figure out. Idiots like you are what makes these forums turn into shit.
Sounds like something an imposter would say.

Lets see some of those S85s you've built, where is your business and instagram profile? Surely you'd wanna use all that marketing power to your advantage...
Reposting this here in response to the prior criticism of my good faith commentary on Sreten's poor engine building practices on his S65 last year which was what this post was in reference too. Per Sreten's video visit with Partee racing, it looks like I was proven right 2x.

Sreten's user avatarSreten
1)Peter Partee schooled you in exactly what I said to about you/to you about how that S65 you built with H2 was sub optimal by any professional engine builder's standards. I know you were asking Peter why torque plates were necessary and he agreed with what I told you. Just let Roger and his team build your engine.

2) When are you going to post or talk about the fact that your 3rd (or 4th "engine rebuild" failed). Don't you owe it to your fan base to come clean about how and why your "better than OEM" S65 engine built by you failed.

I really don't have much else to stay other than when folks with some significant experience chime in to help educate you and others, it might be worthwhile to listen.

Congratulations on your continued financial success on YouTube.


S85 builder wrote
This is an interesting way for you to respond. This is called brigading, inviting others to a separate website and forum to respond. I'm responding here for of others who may actually want to learn or understand, which is why I type this in an S65 area vs an X1/X2 forum. I'm not going to take your bait, I'm sure you have a rabid fan base over there, in fact I'm sure you have more fans here that I ever will. This is why very few professionals bother to comment.

I very rarely comment on forums and videos because these things turn in to debates where someone who expresses a unique or informed opinion quickly gets squashed, which is clearly what has already happened on your other thread.

I was asked specifically to comment on things that I THOUGHT were done incorrectly or sub optimally. You clearly don't care what I have to say, because you immediately dismiss professional practices and critique out of hand, that's fine.

I stand by my commentary, and I've also talked to some other engine builders (mainly Chevy guys) and they agreed. You did not blueprint the engine, but if you think you actually did, then feel free to post up your build sheet of all your measurements. You said "I measured the crankshaft, all perfect and within spec." OK bro.

Here's a fact. BMW doesn't even publish in TIS the nominal and tolerance values of most of the typical blueprinted dimensions (it's agnostic to any engine). I'm sure that Bert from BE would certainly agree. No educated builder would ever say "all was perfect and within spec" while knowing that there aren't published specs!

As for measuring bearings, this requires special micrometers, and where you measure matters, because they have a specific profile for bearing crush and elongation. You'd have to have measured both in the fully torqued in the bedplate. This is even a worse PITA than you think. Then you still don't have a concentricity measurement, with or without the bearings installed.

You said "If I were mixing and matching a different crank/bedplate/block, then for sure, proper measurements with tools are highly recommendable, but this wasn't my case." This is one of my fundamental points of engine rebuilding, you ALWAYS measure when the engine is apart ESPECIALLY on the S65 where there are well established flaws with cause bearing failure everywhere on the lower end of the engine.

As far as rebuilding of the head, did you take measurements there? what about valve tip protrusion, valve guide clearance, spring height, force. Pro engine builders all measure this EVEN WITH NEW STUFF. Did you vacuum test your cylinder head? How much vacuum were you holding? Again, there's real substance to me saying that YOUR build was suboptimal. This is easily a 1hr video by itself, but I think it would be boring AF. I use a Sunnen head disassembly bench, it's a universal machine for compressing springs, but it is production level machine, and it is still a PITA. I could elaborate on the importance of balance of the complete rotating assy, but doesn't seem like you'd not appreciate one bit of what I'd say. You new cams will be glorious, just rev rev away.

There's really no dispute in the professional rebuilding arena about using Torque plates and why, street engine or race engine. It's about all thickness and distortion. The difference is actually measurable with a bore gage.

I will watch your Alpina video but based on your explanation, YOU (the builder) specified the desired bore diameter, that actually is YOUR job as the builder. As long as they it the number within the tolerance YOU specified, they did what they were supposed to. Seems like you admit that you didn't know that hypereutectic pistons have a different coefficient of thermal expansion than forged. Tough lesson, cool that you documented, no shame there, but if you were properly educated, you'd have known, that's engines 101. That's why education matters. You also have to specify different rings when you go with sleeves. If the machine shop hit the spec you gave, then you should not expect any renumeration from them. If you then chose to defame them by insisting, they made the error then really they should be suing YOU for reputational damages.

There are many professionals who do these things for a living, you seem to infer that you KNOW they don't measure things and don't follow proper torque procedures. That's a big claim sir. That infers the whole industry does things wrong, and you know better and do it better.

You seem to know that 1% of the comments you receive are hateful or offensive. I just guessed and it seems like I'm right, it seems like you and YT want to have a bunch of happy happy joy joy positivity, while censoring any critique. Well that's kinda cool and really creepy too. I understand why they do what they do and frankly I don't think content moderation is done well as we've seen with Twitter and Facebook censorship. Congrats on doing what you like. This commentary isn't about where you came from, it's about specific things that weren't done right.

Someone else will have to explain my comment about your lack of pre-pressuring lube practices. It may very likely have contributed to premature wear on your other engines. If I say it, it will only seem like I'm preaching to you from my high horse, but it's done for a reason, and what you did isn't it.

EDIT: Oh and if anyone thinks I am Troy or I know the guy, you are seriously misinformed...
Go home, Troy, before one of your many jilted customers geolocate your new hidey hole and serves you that summons you’ve been hiding from.

But seriously.. why in the world resurrect this nonsense? Keep your bile to one thread please. Just remember — you’re (probably) not wrong, you’re just an a-hole.
Oh excellent, looks like you’ve been banned. Kudos to the mods.
kolosy wrote
Oh excellent, looks like you’ve been banned. Kudos to the mods.
Thank F!
About dam time, S85 business in Michigan must be slowing down already.
kolosy wrote
Just remember — you’re (probably) not wrong, you’re just an a-hole.
I think I'd rather listen to an asshole that is usually right than a kinder person that is not as knowledgeable, in general.

There seems to be validity to what S85 Builder is saying and I'm curious why he was banned? Is he wrong about anything technical? I'm not sure of his history or why he seems to be hated so much but as a fellow contrarian, I don't think banning him is the right move here. I may be in the minority here and thats fine by me but I wouldn't mind hearing a discussion of his criticisms of Sreten's engine building that he brings up and he was told by Peter in those videos.
darren p. wrote
I think I'd rather listen to an asshole that is usually right than a kinder person that is not as knowledgeable, in general.

There seems to be validity to what S85 Builder is saying and I'm curious why he was banned? Is he wrong about anything technical? I'm not sure of his history or why he seems to be hated so much but as a fellow contrarian, I don't think banning him is the right move here. I may be in the minority here and thats fine by me but I wouldn't mind hearing a discussion of his criticisms of Sreten's engine building that he brings up and he was told by Peter in those videos.
Because the second he joined he started fights. Telling everyone that they are wrong and that he is god's gift to engine building. It's hard to take good advice from someone like that.
Brandoch wrote
Because the second he joined he started fights. Telling everyone that they are wrong and that he is god's gift to engine building. It's hard to take good advice from someone like that.
Fair point, I also did some research on his history and its colorful to say the least. I don't really want to weigh in on that.

BUT, is he wrong about the claims he is making with regard to Sreten's engine building methods? I see his point and while I love the M539 videos as most do, considering his YouTube numbers and growth, its safe to assume some people will watch those videos and think to themselves, "I can do this too". So if the failures he has experienced are due to those methods (amongst other outside factors - ie. questionable machining), I don't think its right that he keeps those videos up without some kind of addendum. As far as I've seen, Sreten has not publically acknowledged what has happened and I am not a fan of that.
darren p. wrote
Fair point, I also did some research on his history and its colorful to say the least. I don't really want to weigh in on that.

BUT, is he wrong about the claims he is making with regard to Sreten's engine building methods? I see his point and while I love the M539 videos as most do, considering his YouTube numbers and growth, its safe to assume some people will watch those videos and think to themselves, "I can do this too". So if the failures he has experienced are due to those methods (amongst other outside factors - ie. questionable machining), I don't think its right that he keeps those videos up without some kind of addendum. As far as I've seen, Sreten has not publically acknowledged what has happened and I am not a fan of that.
There is a different between a YouTuber vs an accredited educator. Following people on YouTube is the same as Following people on a forum. You use a DIY thread as guidelines, just as a YouTube video.
No one, including Sreten is claiming that his videos are "perfect" and to the EXACT to the letter of BMW engine builders.
The people who can't separate that fact is are fools.
darren p. wrote
Fair point, I also did some research on his history and its colorful to say the least. I don't really want to weigh in on that.

BUT, is he wrong about the claims he is making with regard to Sreten's engine building methods? I see his point and while I love the M539 videos as most do, considering his YouTube numbers and growth, its safe to assume some people will watch those videos and think to themselves, "I can do this too". So if the failures he has experienced are due to those methods (amongst other outside factors - ie. questionable machining), I don't think its right that he keeps those videos up without some kind of addendum. As far as I've seen, Sreten has not publically acknowledged what has happened and I am not a fan of that.
Did his S65 blow up? Or is this about the alpina motors?
kolosy wrote
Did his S65 blow up? Or is this about the alpina motors?
My understanding is that the S65 from Project Frankfurt "ate itself within 10k km" as referenced here
Chrisyphus wrote
Sreten of E39M5 restorations had an EXTREMELY reputable shop in Germany do his block for his project Frankfurt build, and that engine ate itself in less than 10,000 KM.