Navy thread

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When I think of something that can move through the water I think of a fish, Salmon or Tuna, not this.

JJ 911SC wrote

Llarry wrote

... Both boats that I was on were very crowded everywhere with the possible exception of the crew's mess.

And what year would that be?

1972-74

In addition to medals awarded to individual military people for meritorious or combat service, the U.S. awards unit citations that are worn by all members of a particular outfit when the unit performs exceptional service. These are of three levels for the U.S. Navy and Marine Corps: Meritorious Unit Citation (the lowest), Navy Unit Commendation and Presidential Unit Citation. The PUC is awarded only rarely and is worn with pride by those assigned to the unit or previously assigned.

In an unusual move, two support vessels have just been awarded the Presidential Unit Citation for their support of the carrier Ford during operations in the Middle East. The fleet oiler USNS Kanawha (T-AO 196) and the ammunition/cargo stores ship USNS William McLean (T-AKE 12) were both pulled from routine Atlantic deployments to support the Ford during combat operations. A four-month deployment turned into a year-long high-tempo underway replenishment mission for the two support vessels. Both ships are primarily crewed by civilian mariners, but with a Navy detachment on board. What's more, for extended deployments, civilian crew members usually rotate off and on the ships, but the crews involved had an unusually high rate of volunteering to extend their normal duty assignments.

Well done, Kanawha and William McLean!

The U.S. Naval Institute reports that the scrapping of the Enterprise (CVN 65), the first nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, is going to cost US$1.3 Billion! The task is complicated by the fact that Enterprise had eight nuclear reactors. Subsequent carriers (USS Nimitz-on) have only two. No matter the number of reactors, the scrapping of a nuclear-powered ship is no trivial matter.

Llarry wrote

The Canadian Patrol Submarine is a major (and expensive) effort to boost Canada's maritime security.

Before Canada joined the program, Norway and Germany had already planned integrated efforts for design and sustainment of the Type 212CD boats. ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems (TKMS) based the design on the smaller Type 212A submarine, but with many improvements. With Canada joining the program, some components will be Canadian-supplied.

The first thing you notice about this submarine is the diamond-shaped hull form, which is designed to scatter sounds waves -- a bit analogous to stealth aircraft. Another interesting design feature is the offset torpedo tubes at the bow (see below).

Compared with its Type 212A predecessor the 212CD is considerably larger (see data sheet) but retains a relatively small crew.

Norway plans to buy 6 boats and Germany to buy 6-9. All units will be based at Haakonvern, Norway. The dozen Canadian boats will be based on the both the Atlantic and Pacific coasts. The first RCN deliveries are projected for 2033-34; Germany is permitting Canada to take early delivery by diverting boats originally intended for Germany to Canada.

The first Type 212CD is scheduled to be commissioned in the Royal Norwegian Navy in 2029, joined a year later by the second boat. The 4th and 5th boats are scheduled to go to Germany in 2031 and 2034. The addition of Canada is introducing some changes in the order of delivery -- the first four RCN boats are due by 2034.

Buying a dozen submarines is a major game changer for the RCN. At the same time, Canada is embarked on a major combat aircraft modernization with the CF-35A and possibly Gripen.

The history of Canadian defence programmes is of occasional very ambitious projects (CF-105 probably the best example) coupled with cancellation or deep cuts.

So I ask my Canadian friends, will the submarines and fighters really become reality? I would value your opinion.

Llarry wrote

So I ask my Canadian friends, will the submarines and fighters really become reality? I would value your opinion.

I can't speak for the Navy but the cancellation of the CF-105 (Arrows) was always a hot topic with my father as his Squadron was scheduled to fly them. The Diefenbaker minister at the time. sold his soul to the Americans and bought the CM-10 Bomarc Missile system that couldn't even get out of the silos. So instead, they eventually bought used and discarded F-101 Voodoos from the USAF.

The Canadian Government, regardless of political affiliation, was always wishy-washy regarding Defense spending leading to multi-billions law suits at the expense of taxpayers for cancelling projects etc... It took years to replace the aging Sea Kings helicopters.

But the big winners were the Americans thanks to the "Brain Drain" it caused.

Canadian scientists and former Avro Arrow engineers played a direct, vital role in putting the first humans on the moon. When Canada canceled the Arrow supersonic interceptor project in February 1959, NASA aggressively recruited roughly 32 of its top aerodynamicists and designers.

Key Avro Engineers and Contributions

• Jim Chamberlin: Served as chief of technical design for the Arrow and became a key NASA manager who championed the Lunar Orbit Rendezvous strategy that made the moon landing mechanically possible.
• Owen Maynard: Led the systems engineering division for the Apollo program and is recognized as a principal architect behind the design of the Apollo Lunar Module.
• Bryan Erb: Developed the crucial ablative heat shield that protected Apollo astronauts during their fiery re-entry into Earth's atmosphere
• So, the reality? Your guess is just as good as mine.

The Russian Navy has finally decided to pull the plug on the overhaul of Russia's sole aircraft carrier, the Admiral Kuznetsov. The ship has been in overhaul for many years and apparently the end was not in sight.

The Admiral Kuznetsov was the lead ship of the Soviet Union's class that was actually designated as Tyazholiy Avianeschchiy Kreizer (TAKR) or heavy aircraft-carrying cruiser. It was completed in 1990 just as the USSR fell apart. A second ship was never completed and was sold to China ostensibly as a floating casino. The Chinese then completed the ship as an aircraft carrier in 2012 -- and then constructed yet a third (modified) version which was completed in 2019.

The history of the TAKR designation is interesting. The 1936 Montreux Convention prohibits aircraft carriers of over 15,000 tons from passing through the Turkish Straits. At 55,000 tons full load, the Kuznetsov clearly would be unable to pass the Straits. However, the Kuznetsov was also heavily armed with surface-to-surface missiles. Accordingly, the Soviets designated it as a TAKR and the Turks did not object to Straits passage by the new cruiser.

In all fairness, the Soviets had a point -- the aircraft complement was not great, and the cruiser armament was substantial.

Had the Chinese PLAN not embarked on an ambitious program of carrier construction, they would probably be interested in buying the ship, but they have now embraced the much more capable fully functional aircraft carrier. I suspect that the ski-jump carrier will soon become a minor footnote in naval history.

Back in 1988, a Soviet Victor class nuclear-powered attack submarine fired a practice torpedo at another sub (Hotel class SSBN K-178) acting as target. The torpedo was not programmed correctly and ended up hitting the target boat and piercing the outer hull. Soviet subs were of double-hull construction, and the torpedo did not pierce the inner hull. I suspect somebody had some explaining to do.

The U.S. company Saildrone has been producing sail-powered unmanned surface vehicles for years now. The USN has used these surface drones in the Middle East, Caribbean and Eastern Pacific. The Explorer model in use so far is 23 feet long and has a height of 16 feet. As can be seen in the photo the sail is more akin to an aircraft wing than the canvas sails of old. The speed is just 3 knots, but the endurance is up to a year. Solar arrays power onboard systems. Many of the missions are environmental in nature but onboard cameras provide some military function.

Saildrone has also designed larger sail-powered USVs.

https://www.saildrone.com/missions

Israel has taken delivery of its most advanced and expensive submarine from Germany, expanding its fleet amid escalating regional threats, according to reports.

The handover of the INS Drakon is expected to significantly bolster Israel's underwater strike and reconnaissance capabilities, The warship had been scheduled to be delivered in 2025.

A statement following the submarine's naming ceremony in Kiel in 2024 said the INS Drakon is of the Dolphin AIP class and "equipped with unique systems, including groundbreaking technologies that expand the range of the IDF's capabilities across various arenas." 

The U.S. Navy was well aware that the planned invasion of Japan in late 1945 would be a vicious and costly fight. Japan had held back large numbers of aircraft for suicide attacks, and the U.S. expected heavy losses of ships. Aircraft carriers would be the priority target for Japanese aircraft.

The attached shows a prototype decoy ship -- a submarine chaser masquerading as an escort carrier. Far smaller than an actual CVE at just 110 feet long, but hopefully an attractive target for a poorly trained kamikaze pilot. This photo reveals the small size of the decoy if you look at the sailor to the rear of the island or the two sailors at the stern.

The atom bomb led to the end of the war before an invasion of the Japanese home islands became necessary. As terrible as the death toll from Hiroshima and Nagasaki was, it is conceivable that even more Japanese would have died as a result of an invasion.