Track brake pad/rotor wear - your results?

VictorH wrote

Do you have a link? Coleman Machine (at least the first one that comes up) is farm supply and Coleman Racing is out of MI.

There you go:

http://www.colemanracing.com/

VP M3 wrote

How difficult and what tools do I need to change by pads myself on stock rotors?

Not difficult.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246116

VP M3 wrote

How difficult and what tools do I need to change by pads myself on stock rotors?

5mm socket and two prybars for the anti rattle clips.

Its actually pretty easy but gets old fast. Especially if you've had a fixed caliper witha removable bridge, like stoptech, in the past.

VP M3 wrote

Is anyone running stock rotors with the Pagids on the street / track?

Wondering about noise for daily driving?

HP Man wrote

Pagids work very well but squeal like a pig. Unless you do not mind sounding like a garbage truck, then you will not want to daily drive them.

I recently switched from StopTech Street Performance pads to a set of Pagids (stock rotors/calipers).

They are EXTREMELY loud when you first install them (the garbage truck comparison is spot on).

HOWEVER (and this is a big one) -- as soon as you bed them in PROPERLY, they are virtually silent. Even after weeks of street driving post-last good braking (i.e., track day), outside of the occasional quiet squeak, they are virtually silent.

If they had kept making noise like when first installed, I almost definitely would have been swapping them before/after each track day (as it was pretty awful). But now, like arter, I just leave them in and I am perfectly content with their street performance/noise. And I am definitely thrilled with their on-track performance (just came from a 100 degree day at Auto Club Speedway which is brutal on the brakes and they held up phenomenally)

And re bedding: take a look at Pagid's recommended procedure. It is virtually impossible to do it on the street (and certainly not legal or safe). My recommendation is to install them the day before you go to the track so as to minimize the squeaky days you have to endure

^^which pagids are you running?

Can those pagids when new possibly be louder than the PF01s? I've sent people running for cover when I applied the brakes.

Seriously, I'm getting more and more intrigued by the pagids.

I can stay that the Stoptech pads ARE garbage at the track. There's absolutely no bite and most of the times, I was questioning if I should attempt to turn or go straight off track so I started braking much earlier.

What were you braking from and to with the stoptechs, and how long was the session?

I've done a few time attacks with a full set of stoptechs and have had no issues in 10 minute sessions with the hardest braking being 100 to 20 mph. I did find that they took a lot of bedding to be consistent though.

Just curious as I'm running the Edmonton Indy track in a few weeks with PFC-06s in front and will likely be sticking with stoptechs in the back.

warp10motorsports wrote

^^which pagids are you running?

Sorry, the yellow RS19 (RS29 not an option for stock caliper).

bigjae1976 wrote

I can stay that the Stoptech pads ARE garbage at the track. There's absolutely no bite and most of the times, I was questioning if I should attempt to turn or go straight off track so I started braking much earlier.

They were better than OEM, but that's obviously not saying much I found them workable on tracks that are relatively easy on brakes (which all SoCal tracks are, relatively, outside of Auto Club). They are never great -- no bite and definitely get fade.

But the biggest thing that finally got me to switch was after going to Laguna and going through a brand new set of StopTechs in two days -- they just really started to come apart on a track that demands heavy braking.

After switching, I also realized how much I had been compensating for the poor pad performance. I had started pickup some bad habits (excessive brake modulation, braking way too early and light, etc.) to keep the stoptechs from overheating.

I have heard that people have more success with them in the stoptech bbks -- but with how easy pad changes are with those, I don't know why anyone would not run a dedicated race pad

rhouck wrote

They were better than OEM, but that's obviously not saying much I found them workable on tracks that are relatively easy on brakes (which all SoCal tracks are, relatively, outside of Auto Club). They are never great -- no bite and definitely get fade.

But the biggest thing that finally got me to switch was after going to Laguna and going through a brand new set of StopTechs in two days -- they just really started to come apart on a track that demands heavy braking.

After switching, I also realized how much I had been compensating for the poor pad performance. I had started pickup some bad habits (excessive brake modulation, braking way too early and light, etc.) to keep the stoptechs from overheating.

I have heard that people have more success with them in the stoptech bbks -- but with how easy pad changes are with those, I don't know why anyone would not run a dedicated race pad

I didn't have an issue with pad wear but they were not very good. This was in my E46 330 with a Stoptech BBK. It was weird because the harder I braked, the worse they felt. It was good for fast turns where you just need a quick brush of the brakes, less grabby than the PF01s. I might be a little harsh because I was expecting them to be a little better from the reviews I've seen. FYI, my PF01s lasted 8 weekends (1 wet) on my E46 and they develop some g's when I'm hard on the brakes.

apecush wrote

What were you braking from and to with the stoptechs, and how long was the session?

I've done a few time attacks with a full set of stoptechs and have had no issues in 10 minute sessions with the hardest braking being 100 to 20 mph. I did find that they took a lot of bedding to be consistent though.

Just curious as I'm running the Edmonton Indy track in a few weeks with PFC-06s in front and will likely be sticking with stoptechs in the back.

I was coming from about 135mph to about 60mph...it was a white knuckle experience everytime unless I started braking about 200m earlier. Then I ended up slowing the car down way too much.

bigjae1976 wrote

5mm socket and two prybars for the anti rattle clips.

Its actually pretty easy but gets old fast. Especially if you've had a fixed caliper witha removable bridge, like stoptech, in the past.

7mm allen key/socket, and a 8" g-clamp to compress the pistons.

LiM3y wrote

7mm allen key/socket, and a 8" g-clamp to compress the pistons.

Oops...yeah, 7mm. I just compress it by hand. PIA though.

rhouck wrote

Sorry, the yellow RS19 (RS29 not an option for stock caliper).


They were better than OEM, but that's obviously not saying much I found them workable on tracks that are relatively easy on brakes (which all SoCal tracks are, relatively, outside of Auto Club). They are never great -- no bite and definitely get fade.

But the biggest thing that finally got me to switch was after going to Laguna and going through a brand new set of StopTechs in two days -- they just really started to come apart on a track that demands heavy braking.

After switching, I also realized how much I had been compensating for the poor pad performance. I had started pickup some bad habits (excessive brake modulation, braking way too early and light, etc.) to keep the stoptechs from overheating.

I have heard that people have more success with them in the stoptech bbks -- but with how easy pad changes are with those, I don't know why anyone would not run a dedicated race pad

What pad are you running in the rear, and also I assume you are running stainless steel lines? Thinking of finally upgrading the crap stock pads and moving to pagids with ss lines and leaving them in for daily/track how you have it.

Caspita wrote

What pad are you running in the rear, and also I assume you are running stainless steel lines? Thinking of finally upgrading the crap stock pads and moving to pagids with ss lines and leaving them in for daily/track how you have it.

Same pad, front and rear.

And no, stock brake lines. I have run them on different vehicles before, just not convinced they were worth the cost (not really the lines themselves as much as the associated labor) for any limited benefit. Plus they have their own potential reliability issues.

I will add that I am leaving in them because I am not experiencing any obnoxious noise after bedding them in. However, I imagine there is the potential for the pads to eventually start becoming noisy again if too much time passes without hard braking (i.e., the track). I average 1-2 times a month so I only go about 2-3 weeks at a time with normal street driving. In that time frame, no noise issues crop up.

Just a heads up since I don't know how often you go -- this may not be the best setup for a twice-a-year track enthusiast, but every 1-2 months would likely make it worth it

rhouck wrote

Same pad, front and rear.

And no, stock brake lines. I have run them on different vehicles before, just not convinced they were worth the cost (not really the lines themselves as much as the associated labor) for any limited benefit. Plus they have their own potential reliability issues.

I will add that I am leaving in them because I am not experiencing any obnoxious noise after bedding them in. However, I imagine there is the potential for the pads to eventually start becoming noisy again if too much time passes without hard braking (i.e., the track). I average 1-2 times a month so I only go about 2-3 weeks at a time with normal street driving. In that time frame, no noise issues crop up.

Just a heads up since I don't know how often you go -- this may not be the best setup for a twice-a-year track enthusiast, but every 1-2 months would likely make it worth it

Thanks for the info I'm trying to get out there at least once every other month so I guess I will see how the noise levels are. Interesting point about the lines, just figured everybody who ran after market pads ran ss lines. The labor itself doesn't concern me as I have access to a free shop pretty much whenever I would need.

My 1M is a daily driver, has been to the track 11 days since last October and has just under 12,000 miles since May 2011, running stock brakes. I’m really pretty easy on the brakes on the street so most of the wear is from the track. First 9 track days were on PFC-01’s and switched to PFC-06’s prior to the last event. Rotor wear is still within spec at around 29.6 mm.

However my rotors are warped and I’m waiting on new ones to be shipped to the dealer so that they’ll replace them under warranty. I’m a bit perplexed as to why the OEM rotors warped as the 1M is a lighter car than the M3 but in any case I’ll be fitting some brake ducts over the Labor Day holiday to keep this from happening again.

Regarding the PFC pads, I really like their performance and had no complaints on the longevity of the PFC-01’s or the amount of wear on the rotors.

edit - after reading some other posts on warped rotors I put my race pads on and used StopTech's procedure to scrub the pad deposits from my rotors. It worked; pulsating is gone. Wonder what the dealership based their diagnosis on?

Just completed a track day using PFC-06 in front with stoptech in the back. The track was relatively long, with the hardest stops from 120 to 20 mph. Brakes performed without issue, though long straightaways kept them quite cool. I was a bit worried about the different f/r compounds, but I had absolutely no issues. The PFC pads have pretty good cold bite, but as mentioned, they're too loud for a street car. I can wake my 8 week old pulling into my street...

As far as wear is concerned, neglidgible wear on the PFC pads after approximately 80 minutes. This was the 3rd event for the StopTech rears and they are easily still over 50% pad left.

bigjae1976 wrote

I can stay that the Stoptech pads ARE garbage at the track. There's absolutely no bite and most of the times, I was questioning if I should attempt to turn or go straight off track so I started braking much earlier.

Yep i agree they are really bad. I ran the Stoptech SP pads in the Stoptech BBK and they lasted less than 2 track days. Seems like they just completely melted away.

I'm running the Endless ME20 pads now and they are great on the track and are lasting through many track days.

I disagree. My Stoptech ST60 with Stoptech pads rocks on track. Brakes never fade, even running very hard laps the whole session. I had brake issues with OEM calipers, but never with the big ST60's. There are a lot of quick drivers that ST pads hold up to, including Leh Keen and rldzao (not sure about spelling his name), and kaiv (who I bought the ST60 from). I don't know how you'd overheat the ST pads in ST60 on street tires. Maybe running slicks.

My front stoptech SP pads with stock brakes lasted 3 days. I had really bad brake performance on that 4th track day, they were worn to the metal in some places.

I've put in a new set since I had it, but I'll definetely have to switch to sommething else for the future. I am leaning towards Endless..

seems like most people run the pfc or pagids anyone have any experience with dtc 70 rotor wear in normal street driving? I have them on a dedicated track s2000 with stoptech st40 and they wear great but are constantly at high temps. also curious why most guys run pfc or pagids over the hawks?

dapopa9 wrote

Yep i agree they are really bad. I ran the Stoptech SP pads in the Stoptech BBK and they lasted less than 2 track days. Seems like they just completely melted away.

I'm running the Endless ME20 pads now and they are great on the track and are lasting through many track days.

Shit man I did ~5-6 days on a set of those
Granted I had the larger pads/rotors (6pot/380mm).

Let's get on this brake cooling stuff!

Porschefile wrote

I disagree. My Stoptech ST60 with Stoptech pads rocks on track. Brakes never fade, even running very hard laps the whole session. I had brake issues with OEM calipers, but never with the big ST60's. There are a lot of quick drivers that ST pads hold up to, including Leh Keen and rldzao (not sure about spelling his name), and kaiv (who I bought the ST60 from). I don't know how you'd overheat the ST pads in ST60 on street tires. Maybe running slicks.

I have run the ST60 with the Stoptech pads and they were OK as long as you did not try to use them hard on track:D.I found that once they got hot they had poor pedal feel and very poor retardation.I normally run a Pagid RS14/29 combo that gives me a slightly front bias on brake balance.I run street tires(NT05's) and I did not have a problem running the Stoptech pads off the car quite quickly compared to using a proper track pad.