AG m359+Vredestein = Front Tire Rubbing! HELP!!!

Hey all,

I just had new Vred tires installed on Avant Garde m359 wheels. The wheels are 19x9, 18 mm offset, and 19x10, 25 mm offset. The tires are 255/35/19 and 275/35/19, respectively. The fronts are rubbing when turning the steering wheel 90 degrees or so while the backs are perfect. I replaced the OEM m220s, which have a 29 mm offset in the front, so things SHOULD be fine. The new fronts look like they are sticking out significantly more than the m220 wheels, despite a total of a 1 mm difference in lateral stance. The tires fit the wheels fine...and it seems that many people on this forum have this same setup with no problems.

Anyone have this problem or have suggestions as to how to fix this? I am at Performance Plus in Long Beach at the moment and the techs seem confused...a bad sign.

Thanks!

Do you have your rears on the front? Lol, I'm being serious which is the sad thing..

Are you lowered? These tires are wider, your wheels stick out a bit more, and the tires are about 1% taller.

I checked personally...the fronts are on the front. That was my first guess too!

I am not lowered. Stock 2010 m3 setup for the suspension.

Here are some pics I just snapped of the setup...anything look funny?

The fronts look about 1/4 - 1/2" further out than the rears.

Your new F 9ET18 sticks out (front spacing) ~0.70" more than the 220M 8.5ET29 - equivalent to running an 18 mm spacer with the 220M F wheel

I guess I just don't understand the spacings. If the original offset was 29 and I go to 18, that's 11 mm (~.43"). The wheel width increased 0.5" from 8.5 to 9. That doesn't mean a net change of 0.07" (1.7 mm)?

The various manufacturers have a slightly different take on the actual size of a given tire. Some have squarer shoulders and some are more rounded. The sizing even varies between the various tire models of a given manufacturer. A lot of guys that did the RAC (19x9 +22 front) group buy used 255/35 x 19 Vred Ultrac Sessantas on the front. Some complained of rubbing, and many said they had no issues. There's a photo of my car that shows a mild rub point at the RH front at the following link: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9463247&postcount=5 . Other people had issues at the LH rear. I think that It's possibly due to body tolerances in the wheel well.

You can try adjusting the plastic fender liner. It's likely though that what you have is what you have. M3SORD is correct about your offset. You've pushed the tire out 17.3 mm or about 0.7".

calintexas wrote

The various manufacturers have a slightly different take on the actual size of a given tire. Some have squarer shoulders and some are more rounded. The sizing even varies between the various tire models of a given manufacturer. A lot of guys that did the RAC (19x9 +22 front) group buy used 255/35 x 19 Vred Ultrac Sessantas on the front. Some complained of rubbing, and many said they had no issues. There's a photo of my car that shows a mild rub point at the RH front at the following link: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9463247&postcount=5 . Other people had issues at the LH rear. I think that It's possibly due to body tolerances in the wheel well.

You can try adjusting the plastic fender liner. It's likely though that what you have is what you have.

Thanks for the input.

Have you had any problems resulting from the rubbing? Would you be comfortable tracking the car?

There's a handy dandy calculator on the top of the page on the 3 series wheel/tire forum http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12

"5mm MORE clearance on the strut side, and the outside edge of the wheel will EXTEND an extra 17mm"

Nordstat wrote

I guess I just don't understand the spacings. If the original offset was 29 and I go to 18, that's 11 mm (~.43"). The wheel width increased 0.5" from 8.5 to 9. That doesn't mean a net change of 0.07" (1.7 mm)?

The offset is the distance between the wheel mounting face and wheel centerline. Switching from an 8.5et29 to a 9et18 does indeed move the F rim of the new wheel out 0.70" (not 0.07") relative to the old wheel.

sensi09 wrote

There's a handy dandy calculator on the top of the page on the 3 series wheel/tire forum http://www.e90post.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12

"5mm MORE clearance on the strut side, and the outside edge of the wheel will EXTEND an extra 17mm"

HAHAHA well that explains it I guess! Thanks for the calc link.

As others have mentioned, the offset is out 11mm more and the wheel is 1/2 inch wider than before. That makes the front wheel stick out significantly more. Plus you are running a wider and taller tire.

If you went with the stock 245/35 front tire, you might be ok.. but the larger tire + more negative offset means the wheels stick out more.

Nordstat wrote

Thanks for the input.

Have you had any problems resulting from the rubbing? Would you be comfortable tracking the car?

My rub is very slight and only occurs at full lock. It hasn't been an issue. I haven't tracked my car, but a friend here in the DFW area with the same setup (and a slightly worse rub at the same point) has tracked his car without issue. You do have 4 mm less offset (tire sticks out more) which makes your situation a bit different than ours. I'm going to guess if you only rub at full lock that you will be fine. There are lots of guys that have rubbed through their wheel well liners at a couple of tight points

calintexas wrote

My rub is very slight and only occurs at full lock. It hasn't been an issue. I haven't tracked my car, but a friend here in the DFW area with the same setup (and a slightly worse rub at the same point) has tracked his car without issue. You do have 4 mm less offset (tire sticks out more) which makes your situation a bit different than ours. I'm going to guess if you only rub at full lock that you will be fine. There are lots of guys that have rubbed through their wheel well liners at a couple of tight points

Scary thought...

The guys here are trying to heat-gun and bend the plastic liner a bit to avoid the rubbing. I will get used to the wheel spacing. I think I would rather have a lightly more protruding front wheel than add a rear spacer and mess with the geometry of the amazing M suspension.

Some other posts have pretty much hit up the response which could have several answers. The ET18s are pretty aggressive, my 255/35/19s are 26.1" tall and I don't rub but I am on the OEM ZCP wheels which have a ET31mm front not ET18. Unfortunately can't find any data on the Vredestein as far as the overall diameter. So combination of height and offsets..

It will probably be an on issue after awhile as the tire will wear and won't hit afterwards.

Dave

UPDATE: so I drove home tonight and the tires rub significantly during normal right and left turns. I will check the liners and post pics, but I don't think this is minor rubbing. It actually doesn't rub at full lock, but about 2/3 the way to full lock and for a decent amount of the steering wheel turn-through.

Do I need to drop the fronts to 245's instead of the 255's? Would that be enough to fix the problem?

Thanks.

Nordstat wrote

UPDATE: so I drove home tonight and the tires rub significantly during normal right and left turns. I will check the liners and post pics, but I don't think this is minor rubbing. It actually doesn't rub at full lock, but about 2/3 the way to full lock and for a decent amount of the steering wheel turn-through.

Do I need to drop the fronts to 245's instead of the 255's? Would that be enough to fix the problem?

Thanks.

Or shave the wheel hub?

GregW / Oregon wrote

Or shave the wheel hub?

That scares me too. I track the car occasionally and since the wheel hub is only ~13 - 16 mm as is, that is playing with fire. Im going to call performance plus tomorrow and try to exchange the tires.

According to a tire diameter calculator, going from 255 --> 245 would result in a diameter reduction of just under 7 mm, which should be more than enough to give the tire clearance in the wheel well.

I dont see TOO many negatives going with a 245 / 275 setup. Not stock offset, but not horrible...

I had 255/35/19 AD08's on my front OEM ZCP's with a 10MM Spacer which made the front offset at ET21. I rubbed the same way you talk about; at 3/4 left or right and you get the loud "brrrrrrrrp" sound of rubbing. Now I know the ad08's run much more square and wider than other tires but the fact is you are going with a wider and taller tire.

I got so annoyed with the sound i went down to 245/35/19 ad08's and I have stopped rubbing since. The 245 ad08's are quite a bit more grippier than the ps2's i had on stock so I am quite happy with the performance. The 255's felt kind of numb in comparison with the 245's so that is another reason why I'm happy to be back on 245's.

So I replaced the fronts with 245's and there is absolutely NO rubbing. YAY! And I have begun to love the aggressive offset.

Too bad the powder coating is already chipping and they need to be redone (see my other thread).

Thanks for the help!

So what was the cause of your rubbing?? The offset?? Bc I ordered my front wheels 19x9.0 ET 22 and ill looking to get PSS in 255/35? You think I'd rub?