^^Awesome! Thanks for chiming in. If an accident happens and a claim is filed, is there any difference in procedure compared to conventional street insurance claims?
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Transfer wroteWe (Lockton) average about 2 weeks for a total loss - significantly faster than most street policies. The big difference is that we don't require you to use an "approved" body shop that we select...you choose where the car is fixed.^^Awesome! Thanks for chiming in. If an accident happens and a claim is filed, is there any difference in procedure compared to conventional street insurance claims?
The other big difference is that since this is a specialty policy, the accident isn't reported the same as street accidents...so it doesn't go on your record and cause an increase in your street insurance premiums for years.
gottagofast13 wroteThanks again for sharing the information. I did my first track day in my M3 a couple weeks ago with a local Caffeine and Gasoline group - it was such a small group (< 5 on track at a time) I didn't pick up any insurance, but I'm planning to for this weekend at Motorsport Ranch (w The Driver's Edge).We (Lockton) average about 2 weeks for a total loss - significantly faster than most street policies. The big difference is that we don't require you to use an "approved" body shop that we select...you choose where the car is fixed.
The other big difference is that since this is a specialty policy, the accident isn't reported the same as street accidents...so it doesn't go on your record and cause an increase in your street insurance premiums for years.
Maybe I'll see you on the track someday!
gottagofast13 wroteThanks for self-identifying! Sorry to hear about the E36. A sad morning. You always hate to see something like that.Just joined the forum after purchasing an E90 M3 and spotted this thread. My name is Ryan Staub, and I manage our motorsports team at Lockton. We started offering our HPDE Insurance Program in 2008...a couple years after (unfortunately) I totaled my E36 M3 that I had done 100+ HPDE days in. I built this program because this hobby is my passion in life - I've been doing DEs for 11 years, I'm the Chief Instructor for the Kansas City Chapter of BMW CCA, and I've club raced with SCCA and BMW CCA for years. If you ever have questions, suggestions, or need help, feel free to contact me. I'm happy to help, even if you're not doing business with my company.
"Porschefile" is spot on with his comment. Over the years I've seen a few situations where waivers didn't hold up and individuals took on liability for claims related to motorsport incidents. We're working on developing a policy to provide liability coverage for individuals, but I don't have a timeline at this point.
The other liability item most people don't think about is damage to the track. When you sign waivers, everyone is waiving their rights against everyone except the track doesn't waive their rights against you. Barber is notorious for billing drivers for damage to their barriers and I've even heard of bills for sod/landscaping. I'll be club racing with BMW CCA at COTA next month and they've made it abundantly clear that drivers are responsible for any damage they do to the track.
Have fun out there and keep the shiny side up!
davesaddiction wroteThe Driver's Edge is a great group! I'll be down in TX this weekend but at a different track - COTA. I'm instructing all weekend, racing in a friend's E30/S54 in the fun race on Friday and co-driving in the enduro on Sunday.Thanks again for sharing the information. I did my first track day in my M3 a couple weeks ago with a local Caffeine and Gasoline group - it was such a small group (< 5 on track at a time) I didn't pick up any insurance, but I'm planning to for this weekend at Motorsport Ranch (w The Driver's Edge).
Maybe I'll see you on the track someday!
WarrantyTracker wroteIf you exchange dakar for arctic silver in that picture, it looks almost identical to what my E36 looked like after it was totaled. Whether you have insurance or not, it's really painful to lose your track car.
gottagofast13 wroteCan't wait to get to COTA one day (with my car) - I was there with two of my brothers for the F1 Grand Prix last year. What an amazing experience! It's great to continue hearing good things about Driver's Edge.The Driver's Edge is a great group! I'll be down in TX this weekend but at a different track - COTA. I'm instructing all weekend, racing in a friend's E30/S54 in the fun race on Friday and co-driving in the enduro on Sunday.
Have a great weekend. E30 + S54 =
Just now bought my coverage from Lockton. Additional benefit to buying used - only cost me $240, taxes and fees included. Definitely worth it for peace of mind, if nothing else.
Been running with Lockton policies for a few years now... find that I'm a much more relaxed/better driver when I don't have to worry about a 50k mistake. Even with 60+ track days and countiing. Looking at picking up a multil event policy this year.
only cost me 125/weekend for my e46M3, and about 325/weekend for my e92M3. Worth every cent in my opinion after watching owners with liens on their cars get flat-bedded to the paddocks where they watch their cars get dropped on their chassis!
only cost me 125/weekend for my e46M3, and about 325/weekend for my e92M3. Worth every cent in my opinion after watching owners with liens on their cars get flat-bedded to the paddocks where they watch their cars get dropped on their chassis!
BKarktic3 wroteThat last sentence made me cringe. I have been buying the insurance since I got my e92. I did one event without it and I kept feeling horrible and paranoid the whole time. I have been using ontrackinsurance.com(jacob katz) and they are very nice and kind and helpful. Never had to make a claim though.Been running with Lockton policies for a few years now... find that I'm a much more relaxed/better driver when I don't have to worry about a 50k mistake. Even with 60+ track days and countiing. Looking at picking up a multil event policy this year.
only cost me 125/weekend for my e46M3, and about 325/weekend for my e92M3. Worth every cent in my opinion after watching owners with liens on their cars get flat-bedded to the paddocks where they watch their cars get dropped on their chassis!
Things I saw at an HPDE this weekend: Aftermarket wheel on an instructor's car separated from the bolt ring at the spokes (just broke apart), so he was driving on three wheels. Also saw front left suspension on another instructor's car tear free from its mounting, so he was driving on three wheels.
So don't kid yourself nothing bad ever happens at HPDE.
So don't kid yourself nothing bad ever happens at HPDE.
I would not pay for more money. I can pay near 250 for 55,000 coverage for a 3 days track event. thank you.
Kurt_OH wroteNot in CA.Fortunately I can make no informed comments regarding whether there'd be any struggles to get the promised coverage, but my insurer - Nationwide - provides written assurance that my standard auto policy covers me during HPDE events.
FYI
YMMV
The big warning I would give anyone on this topic is EACH STATE IS SPECIFIC IN WHAT THEY COVER AND DON'T COVER. I have seen this mistake made many times in that someone in North Carolina says they are covered and someone in NV thinks they are covered because the same company insures them. I have researched the hell out of this because this is what I do for a living and the best advice I can give anyone is READ YOUR SPECIFIC POLICY. If you don't want to or can't send it to me and I will do it for you. There are specific places to look for the answer.
aus wroteI can confirm that not only is that false, but illegal. The insurance companies have to publish all reasons they can cancel or non-renew your coverage. Being at an event where your policy does not cover you is not one of them.I heard of situations where someone called their insurance company to inquire about HPDE coverage, and the insurance company droppped them right there.
There have been other reports where the insurance company goes to driving events and takes pics of the plates and sends a termination letter if one of their cars is there. This is second hand info from an instructor at at CCA event. He had his plate covered with tape, and I asked him why?
They can decline to write a policy if they know you are going to do something that drastically increases you as a risk, but the rest of the story is on that has been spread like the one about worker's peeing in bottles of Corona at the mfg'ing plant.
That being said, photos are taken of cars on track all the time and covering your plate does take away one form of identifying your car. There would be nothing from stopping an investigator from going onto to the site of the track photographer and looking at what they shot.
MTROIS wroteNot really. The method of settlement of your claim is not always spelled out on a website. Look at the policy and read it. All companies use market value. KBB and Edmunds are guides...they even tell you that in their disclaimer. Look at your local market for a like kind of car with similar options and miles on it. The premise is that the insurance company put you back where you were before the loss took place.You are completely right and the insurance company forms and websites clearly indicate that the kbb or Edmunds values (ie, current market values) should be used. This is also what I had in mind but just was'n't sure at 100% anymore...
KEYON wroteI still can't find one and I think WSIB is no longer in business.Does anyone know if Track Day insurance insures you and the other guy, if something were to happen with another car.
I was told that they were bought out by another company in August of this year, but I have not confirmed that.
KEYON wroteAs always, read the policy, but my experience is that HPDE-specific insurance covers ONLY damage to your car, not damage to the track, any other cars, anyone's medical costs, or lawsuits pertaining to any of the above. On the other hand, general insurance policies whose verbiage does not exclude HPDEs (which are unfortunately getting rarer and rarer) typically have the same verbiage for all sections of their policies, which means that if you're covered for HPDEs, you get coverage for your car, property damage to the track and/or other vehicles, and liability insurance. I have Amica Mutual in Texas and their policy still only excludes practicing for or participating in any organized racing or speed contest. While I suspect that wide open track days with no instructors or classes could be construed as practicing for racing (and why I therefore avoid them), a formal HPDE could hardly be considered racing or a contest given that there are no timers, points, rankings, and not even passing without the consent of the lead car.Does anyone know if Track Day insurance insures you and the other guy, if something were to happen with another car.
But again, read your specific policy!
jphughan wroteYou might want to check with them. I emailed them last month about this because a co-worker believes he is covered. I told them I was interested in switching to Amica for this reason but wanted to confirm with them. I explained what an HPDE was and made it clear that there is no competition or even timing. They called back and said that they "absolutely do not cover this type of event".A...I have Amica Mutual in Texas and their policy still only excludes practicing for or participating in any organized racing or speed contest. ...
Kojiro wroteDid you make clear that there were instructors and classes as opposed to simply an open track day, the latter of which is non-timed and non-competitive but could absolutely be construed as practice for a racing event (which isn't covered)? If so and they still said no, ask them to get a written opinion from an underwriter. This wouldn't be the first time that an agent has given an incorrect answer, particularly about HPDEs. If even the underwriter says that it's not covered, I would ask them to explain to me in what way that opinion is backed by the verbiage of the policy that racetrack driving is only excluded if you're "practicing for or participating in any racing or speed contest". Also, are you in Texas? The same carrier can have different policy wordings and exclusions in different states. You could always ask Amica to send you a copy of their full policy that would cover you if you're a prospective customer.You might want to check with them. I emailed them last month about this because a co-worker believes he is covered. I told them I was interested in switching to Amica for this reason but wanted to confirm with them. I explained what an HPDE was and made it clear that there is no competition or even timing. They called back and said that they "absolutely do not cover this type of event".
But frankly this is one of those things that I don't want to have a record on my file with them indicating that I called to ask and was told no, because that would make any claim that much more difficult. The policy's wording is on my side, so even if it would be a hassle to get the claim paid, I don't expect that end result to change.
Thread referenced by JoeKixxon in "Regular" auto insurance that includes HPDE in US (Texas)? 07-06-2016
Any updates on relevant insurance nowadays?
RLI corp has been good for me.
Lockton seems pretty popular with the groups in my area. Never had to file a claim fortunately, but the rate and coverage seems reasonable/on par with other companies.
I used to use Lockton but they started putting lots of additional exclusions (HPDE-4 NASA not covered, certain tracks not covered).
Switched to RLI. They offer coverage for time trials, which is great. Also, you don't have to find the specific track day organizer - you can specify meaning you can use this policy for private track days.
I cover my e92 for 35,000 and that costs about $200 for non time trial, $240 for. My M4 costs about $600 for non time trial, 1-3 days for $88,000.
Switched to RLI. They offer coverage for time trials, which is great. Also, you don't have to find the specific track day organizer - you can specify meaning you can use this policy for private track days.
I cover my e92 for 35,000 and that costs about $200 for non time trial, $240 for. My M4 costs about $600 for non time trial, 1-3 days for $88,000.
