Stoptech BBK st60 vs st40 front or rear for F+R advice

Hey all, apologies if this was covered already, can't seem to find enough info with my own search. I'm not satisfied with the brakes on the e92 M3. Half day track session had fade & jittering that was not at all confidence inspiring. Since I want to get into more tracking, I want the brakes to outperform me so I never have to worry. Thus I'm thinking a BBK is a good investment. Keep in mind I'm thinking MAX 5 track days a year & I daily drive so can't have any squeal & need good cold bite. Bonus if I don't have to swap pads, but with a stoptech apparently its easy so w/e. All that said, stoptech seemed like the best value/$, but now I have to decide which to get:

1. Should I get the st-40 or spring for the st60? is 6 piston really match much better than 4? For over an extra grand for a bigger rotor I'm not convinced.
2. Can I upgrade only the front to either st60 or st40 & preserve brake balance with OEM rear? Or is this route a terrible mistake as the rears will melt while the fronts will be fine?
3. Are pads significantly easier/cheaper to get for st40? I hear st60 size is super common at least.

Need some tips guys & gals, help me out please?

TYIA

I just placed an order for the ST60 and 40. I was in the same boat as you, what to go with 40 or 60? after talking to one of the vendors here, I was convinced that I wanted the 60-40's. Performance wise, 60 and 40 are very similar but I wanted 6 pistons for the cool factor and looks. Yeah pads are a bit more expensive but who cares when you're already spending 4-5k on these, what is a couple hundred dollars more. As to your question about running OEM rears maybe someone with experience with these can chime in.
I was also told that you'll never regret going with 60's but you might when you go with 40's. Also 99% of ppl who get fronts only end up getting rears right after.

KmndntKlink wrote

Hey all, apologies if this was covered already, can't seem to find enough info with my own search. I'm not satisfied with the brakes on the e92 M3. Half day track session had fade & jittering that was not at all confidence inspiring. Since I want to get into more tracking, I want the brakes to outperform me so I never have to worry. Thus I'm thinking a BBK is a good investment. Keep in mind I'm thinking MAX 5 track days a year & I daily drive so can't have any squeal & need good cold bite. Bonus if I don't have to swap pads, but with a stoptech apparently its easy so w/e. All that said, stoptech seemed like the best value/$, but now I have to decide which to get:

1. Should I get the st-40 or spring for the st60? is 6 piston really match much better than 4? For over an extra grand for a bigger rotor I'm not convinced.
2. Can I upgrade only the front to either st60 or st40 & preserve brake balance with OEM rear? Or is this route a terrible mistake as the rears will melt while the fronts will be fine?
3. Are pads significantly easier/cheaper to get for st40? I hear st60 size is super common at least.

Need some tips guys & gals, help me out please?

TYIA

I have the trophy 6-piston front and 4-piston rear. Nice breaks, incredible difference compared to stock (I have DCT-70 pads). Like you said, the OEM brakes give you very little confidence. Confidence is a huge factor when pushing to the limit. As I usually say, if you can afford the extra $ then go with the 6-piston. Obviously they will give you more confidence than the 4's. E92's are so heavy and front engine so the front brakes are absolutely essential for high speed braking zones.

I am not sure about keeping the OEM rears. If you keep them, swapping pads would be necessary to keep close to the power of the new fronts. Since you are only doing 5 track days a year and its a DD it makes the decision tricky. Swapping certain pads back and forth can cause major squeal. If you are really cursing and getting fast around the track I would say swap pads. If you are more conservative, get the BBK and get moderate pads. Its a fine line. Its hard to balance track-oriented mods while keeping them tolerable on the road. I tried and then decided to make it a track car. Hope this helps a little.

I personally went with ST-40 front, will eventually get ST-40 rear, but need to stay within budget. I did it for weight, talking with others at the track, and just personal preferences.

Tomorrow will be my first day at the track with the ST-40, I'll know then if it was a good decision or not.

edwinm3 wrote

I just placed an order for the ST60 and 40. I was in the same boat as you, what to go with 40 or 60? after talking to one of the vendors here, I was convinced that I wanted the 60-40's. Performance wise, 60 and 40 are very similar but I wanted 6 pistons for the cool factor and looks. Yeah pads are a bit more expensive but who cares when you're already spending 4-5k on these, what is a couple hundred dollars more. As to your question about running OEM rears maybe someone with experience with these can chime in.
I was also told that you'll never regret going with 60's but you might when you go with 40's. Also 99% of ppl who get fronts only end up getting rears right after.

Ya I'm starting to think just doing the whole thing is the best idea. Thanks for the input. Go big or go home right? I'm sure I'll regret it later if I don't get the 60's. I'll always be wondering "would I be faster with the bigger brakes?" Plus they're pretty. I can't afford both brand new, but there's some good deals from fellow users here, so maybe I can do that & spread it out.

Notnug wrote

I have the trophy 6-piston front and 4-piston rear. Nice breaks, incredible difference compared to stock (I have DCT-70 pads). Like you said, the OEM brakes give you very little confidence. Confidence is a huge factor when pushing to the limit. As I usually say, if you can afford the extra $ then go with the 6-piston. Obviously they will give you more confidence than the 4's. E92's are so heavy and front engine so the front brakes are absolutely essential for high speed braking zones.

I am not sure about keeping the OEM rears. If you keep them, swapping pads would be necessary to keep close to the power of the new fronts. Since you are only doing 5 track days a year and its a DD it makes the decision tricky. Swapping certain pads back and forth can cause major squeal. If you are really cursing and getting fast around the track I would say swap pads. If you are more conservative, get the BBK and get moderate pads. Its a fine line. Its hard to balance track-oriented mods while keeping them tolerable on the road. I tried and then decided to make it a track car. Hope this helps a little.

Well said, I agree its very tricky, hence I need help deciding! Very hard trying to keep it civil but get the performance I think I want. Maybe I'll try the stoptech performance pads the kit comes with and see how it goes. I feel like they should be good enough to not melt considering how big the rotors all, and how I'm not good enough to max out the kit (yet lol) As I get better maybe I can start swapping pads, much easier with the fancy bbk bridge design.

Is it possible to get an st40 for the front then move it to the rear later &put an st60 on the front? or are the 'rear' kits different in design?

KmndntKlink wrote

Is it possible to get an st40 for the front then move it to the rear later &put an st60 on the front? or are the 'rear' kits different in design?

Yes, that is a viable option for incremental upgrades. A 40 is a 40 is a...

Sleeper519 wrote  

KmndntKlink wrote

Is it possible to get an st40 for the front then move it to the rear later &put an st60 on the front? or are the 'rear' kits different in design?

Yes, that is a viable option for incremental upgrades. A 40 is a 40 is a...

rotor, caliper bracket would need to be changed and probably the lines as well. Rear st40 kit uses a 32mm thick rotor front kit uses a 35

KmndntKlink wrote

Ya I'm starting to think just doing the whole thing is the best idea. Thanks for the input. Go big or go home right? I'm sure I'll regret it later if I don't get the 60's. I'll always be wondering "would I be faster with the bigger brakes?" Plus they're pretty. I can't afford both brand new, but there's some good deals from fellow users here, so maybe I can do that & spread it out.

Well said, I agree its very tricky, hence I need help deciding! Very hard trying to keep it civil but get the performance I think I want. Maybe I'll try the stoptech performance pads the kit comes with and see how it goes. I feel like they should be good enough to not melt considering how big the rotors all, and how I'm not good enough to max out the kit (yet lol) As I get better maybe I can start swapping pads, much easier with the fancy bbk bridge design.

I started switch pads around and the squealing was crazy. If you are only doing 5 track days a year, I wouldn't go overboard. However, tracking is a sickness so keep that in mind! Pads do make a huge difference so even with 4-6 piston calipers the pads need to be aggressive enough. Once again, its a fine line! Really think before you buy if you might track more and more in the future. Nothing worse than having brakes that do not inspire confidence because this is what will stop you from getting better (and faster). Good luck!

KmndntKlink wrote

Is it possible to get an st40 for the front then move it to the rear later &put an st60 on the front? or are the 'rear' kits different in design?

No. Piston sizes are vastly different.

Thanks for all the input! I've decided to go with a st40 front then maybe a st40 rear later. Now the deal hunting begins!

I know this is a super objective question, but any recommendations on pads for this kit? Was thinking about running the street performance set that comes with it, at least until I feel I've out grown them/if they melt. Anyone use them & can comment via track/daily driving performance?

thanks again!

KmndntKlink wrote

Thanks for all the input! I've decided to go with a st40 front then maybe a st40 rear later. Now the deal hunting begins!

I know this is a super objective question, but any recommendations on pads for this kit? Was thinking about running the street performance set that comes with it, at least until I feel I've out grown them/if they melt. Anyone use them & can comment via track/daily driving performance?

thanks again!

Start by asking reputable forum vendors to match or beat this price: http://thmotorsports.com/stoptech/stoptech_big_brake_kit/831604c0052/i-279438.aspx

Also search the web using the stop tech part number. You don't know what deal you will find.

I used stop tech street performance pads with stock calipers. They tend to go very fast but can handle temperature much better than stock or brembo OE pads that produce deposits and judder.

Later pagids RS29 or endless ME20 are really good rotor friendly track pads. Endless make less noise.

r53s65e90 wrote

Start by asking reputable forum vendors to match or beat this price: http://thmotorsports.com/stoptech/stoptech_big_brake_kit/831604c0052/i-279438.aspx

Also search the web using the stop tech part number. You don't know what deal you will find.

I used stop tech street performance pads with stock calipers. They tend to go very fast but can handle temperature much better than stock or brembo OE pads that produce deposits and judder.

Later pagids RS29 or endless ME20 are really good rotor friendly track pads. Endless make less noise.

Thanks for the tips, ya i'm basically trying to either meet or beat this price:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803583
locally would be great, but it seems like a really good deal so unless someone has had a really bad experience with trinity or I find a good used kit on here, I'm likely to go with them.
I'll try out the stoptech pads then probably move up to race pads & just swap. thankfully its easy with this kit.

r53s65e90 wrote

No. Piston sizes are vastly different.

+1

This is true. Stoptech uses the same caliper bodies but customizes the piston size to suit the application. So an ST40 front caliper for the M3 has different pistons designs than the ST40 caliper for the rear. This way the brake bias stays the same.

You can physically mount a front caliper in the rear or a caliper from another car even but it would be dangerous to to do so as it throws off the brake balance.

A little late but I think the ST40 is a better choice since you have the option to use almost any 18" wheel and some 17"s.

I Just bought the ST60/380 Kit front and St40/355 from HP Autosports.

They matched the lowest price I got quoted from a few other vendors. HP is also an authorized StopTech dealer. Arrived via freight 2 weeks after.

The ST60/380 clears the Apex EC-7 18X10 +25 without spacers.

I got Cobalt XR1 all around from GT Motoring, since the PFC 01 was about $200 more. I consider them to be equal in performance.

bigjae1976 wrote

A little late but I think the ST40 is a better choice since you have the option to use almost any 18" wheel and some 17"s.

not late at all, and I agree. The weight savings and lower operating prices over time suit my needs. I doubt I will ever be maxing out the 355 rotors. In time I can add an st40 to the rear too, but for now I'm sticking with the front kit. I'd still probably use 19's because 18's are ugly. maybe one day i'll get a track only set that will be 18. point is st40 is more flexible. I hear some 18's will clear st60 but I don't want the hassle.

TrakBch wrote

I Just bought the ST60/380 Kit front and St40/355 from HP Autosports.

They matched the lowest price I got quoted from a few other vendors. HP is also an authorized StopTech dealer. Arrived via freight 2 weeks after.

The ST60/380 clears the Apex EC-7 18X10 +25 without spacers.

I got Cobalt XR1 all around from GT Motoring, since the PFC 01 was about $200 more. I consider them to be equal in performance.

Thanks for the tip & pad recommendation (gotta decide on those now). I got a very good deal from R1 Concepts. Kevin from there's been really working with me, what a trooper. Unfortunately the exchange rate is killing me, it's like paying 25%tax instead of the usual (here its 13%). So I may end up going with my local shop, but we'll see. Maybe a used kit will come up too, still time before track season

For anyone else shopping for a kit: If you're in the states R1, trinity & hp autosports would be my list.

Anyone DIY install these? I'm hesitant to try giving if I screw it up I'll be wrapped around a tree. I hear its about 4 hours of shop time?

Any other tips on pads/how good the included stoptech pads are?

Yeah, not a lot of 18s will clear the ST60s. The best thing about ST40s is you can get the Apex ARC8s in 17s that will clear the ST40s. Whenever you step up to R-Comps...this will save you a lot of money over the long run.

As for pads? I've used PFCs, Pagids, and Hawk...but I like the Stoptech SR34 race pads. Like a PF01 except they cost less.

The ST street pads that come with the kit aren't bad for light use but you'll eventually want to get a good high temp pad at some point. The good thing about the ST street pads is you can find them pretty cheap. I've got 3 prs just laying around if someone where looking for some...

Just thought I'd chime in with the research I've found to kinda close up this thread/give a one stop shop for people in the future.

I've decided on centric AKA stoptech slotted st-40. Front first, save up for rears later so they'll match. I'm going yellow calipers because it'll look cool with my yellow paint, even if its probably ill advised re: track temps turning the paint brown. We'll see if washing them regularly & maybe opticoating them or something will prolong the life of the paint.

Here's some links as to why I picked slotted vs drilled vs slotted&drilled vs blank (FYI I think blank is impossible to get as part of a BBK package from a vendor) slotted & drilled is unanimously considered stupid as it's just removing too much rotor material for no point.

you can google yourself to see the amount of BS on the internet that contradicts everyone on whether drilled is pointless or not. IT seems there's more people saying drilled is just for show & has no point on modern cars with asbestos free pads, but take that for what it's worth (ie not much, thanks internet!)
http://www.redline360.com/garage/brakes-cross-drilled-vs-slotted-rotors-which-is-better
http://www.zeckhausen.com/How_to_select_brake_rotors.htm

Went with slotted because I think having more rotor is a better option in terms of heat sinks & you still get the water evacuation to prevent hydroplaning.

One site I found outlined why I was leaning towards stoptech vs brembo etc. They're up front about everything & give lots of technical details. Finding info on brembo was so hard I gave up. They're also stupid expensive for no benefit from what I can tell. You can replace individual parts with stoptech/centric easy & on the cheap (they sell every part separately).

I went st40 because st60 is overkill IMHO unless you're racing full time. I wanted the unsprung weight savings.

I didn't go AP racing, despite them being killer (according to everyone) because they're way too race focused for me. Lightest kit you can buy, but its absolutely no good for wet/snowy climates (only anodized calipers & no dust boots). They are very close in price to stoptechs and probably offer better value for a track only car

For pads, I'm going to try the street performance until I get comfortable with the new setup, then maybe go for the stoptech sr34 or pagids (thanks bigjae!)

Thanks everyone for the tips & advice! huge help!

As um running ST40 all around, too and my car is a track only tool.
Get the Pagid RS29 yellow all around and you will love it.
No noises from the pads and ready for a lot of trackdays and daily driving

KmndntKlink wrote

Thanks for the tips, ya i'm basically trying to either meet or beat this price:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=803583
locally would be great, but it seems like a really good deal so unless someone has had a really bad experience with trinity or I find a good used kit on here, I'm likely to go with them.
I'll try out the stoptech pads then probably move up to race pads & just swap. thankfully its easy with this kit.

I just bought my BBK from these guys. I worked with Nerwyll @ Trinity and he was great... couldn't ask for better service. Look at the last page of that thread above... I posted some pics of my car after I put em on.

Anyway, I went with ST60F/ST40R and will pair them with Pagid RS29's on track. My first track day isn't till first week of March so no idea how they do on track yet. Based on feedback from friends and people on here I'm gonna be very very happy with them. We'll see.... I'll probably post a review after i get chance to test em out.

lukester wrote

As um running ST40 all around, too and my car is a track only tool.
Get the Pagid RS29 yellow all around and you will love it.
No noises from the pads and ready for a lot of trackdays and daily driving

I've heard basically nothing but good things about the RS29 yellows too. Interesting you use it as your daily too, cold bite ok? Would be awesome if I could not swap out & re-bed all the time.

SpiralOut wrote

I just bought my BBK from these guys. I worked with Nerwyll @ Trinity and he was great... couldn't ask for better service. Look at the last page of that thread above... I posted some pics of my car after I put em on.

Anyway, I went with ST60F/ST40R and will pair them with Pagid RS29's on track. My first track day isn't till first week of March so no idea how they do on track yet. Based on feedback from friends and people on here I'm gonna be very very happy with them. We'll see.... I'll probably post a review after i get chance to test em out.

Ya Nerwyll is great, I didn't end up going with him, but no complaints about service, very patient and answered my questions. Good price too. Like I mentioned he was beaten out by R1 concepts for me, so people may want to talk to him (he's here on the boards as cykes) Also great service with them, unbeatable price if you're in the states. Would have gone with him if the CAD->USD wasn't in the crapper right now. Found a local shop that quoted me 2700 tax in. I'd say anything in the mid 2k is high value/dollar for the quality kit you're getting.

Anyone in the GTA, talk to Billy @ tires23, he's your man. you won't find a better price after considering tax on import (your provincial sales tax as stoptech is 100% NAFTA), shipping & exchange rate/credit card fees. Trust me, I'm an accountant!

also nice ride! I like how slotted looks, I'm going to get these so I can install them for mid march too & start testing them out. I'll post a review about the stoptechs, if I can confirm that front only is a good choice to start & what I think about using the bundled pads as an 'all rounder'. I'd appreciate your review too bud!