67k rod bearings replaced!

Doc Oc wrote

And there are plenty of other high mileage m3's out there. But neither those nor yours has any bearing (pun intended) on the situation.

Yikes squartus, those look terrible....especially for 31k miles. Some of the worst I have seen here from a running car.

squartus wrote

You mean a Troll that bought a car with what 97,000 miles on it already? So if it was going to spin a bearing it would of done so already??
Then goes on the forums acting like everyone is causing panic?

Well first of all, I bought the car at 95k miles, but so much for paying attention to detail. Since then more than a year ago, I've put 25K miles, and 7 full track days in the advanced group. We're not talking going to the drag strip just once like you, circuit racing is something different entirely.

squartus wrote

Walk around with your nose stuck in the air and pretend like you know something nobody else does all you want. To me your a troll and nothing else period.
Ill take the advice of seasoned mechanics, or hell just use basic common sense over some blathering advice giving keyboard troll.

Firstly, It's You're a troll, not your a troll, and secondly, a quick search on the 10 or so glorious threads you've started reveal nothing interesting or diverse at all, the highlight of which is: "Noobie at the dragstrip, need some advice" No threads on Maintenance, Tracking, or even just basic install advise on the supercharger. Nothing whatsoever. And you're calling me a troll?

Doc Oc wrote

Yikes squartus, those look terrible....especially for 31k miles. Some of the worst I have seen here from a running car.

It's called show and tell, but these days even in kindergarten, they still get a little more technical, than just showing pictures, so at the very least a measurement of some sort would be nice, from grown ups. Being mad that your randomly pulled mileage oem bearings don't look all shiny and new, when we've seen pictures from vehicles with shiny blemishless aftermarket bearings fail, makes NO sense.

Please tell me what measurements you need and why? Do you have the magic number where bearing failure occurs? If not, what is the point? Can you not clearly see that the crank has actually polished the copper in one of those bearings to a high shine? That is what creates excess heat and causes failure. 31k miles and we have heavily scored bearings. If you can't see this is an issue you are either blind or a fool and I think we would all be better off if you stayed out of these bearing threads. I understand trying to tamp down hysteria, but you are not helping anyone.

Don't feed the troll. He's not qualified to comment on the condition of the bearings even if he had data.

Killerfish2012, its clear you are not a "believer" of the bearing issue so why don't you just ignore these threads? Posting inflammatory remarks is trolling and you are being called out on it. You called out a poster a few posts above this one for posting "nothing interesting or diverse" and yet here you are again in another bearing thread posting your usual comments...

If you can't convince him with the mountains of evidence, you'll never convince him. So just mute him or ignore him. It's not like he's ever had anything useful or interesting to say on this forum, ever.

tdott wrote

Obviously it isn't as clear as you think it is or there would have been a recall already. Some of you need to realize that the manufacture doesn't have to build you a motor that will last forever. Yes it's disppointing that there has been this many failures, but there is no reason to let it consume you. Take precautions you deem nesscessary and move on with life....

Dang, someone's REALLY REALLY naive. There was a bearing recall on the S54 but only after the owners pitched a fit and brought a class-action lawsuit. Same goes for the turbos and HPFP on the 335i.

People expect better than what they're getting. They can get it at any other manufacturer; and there's nothing that states when purchasing or in the owners manual that states the life expectancy of the motor is 60k miles; so people assume it will generally last about the same as other makes without any major work (150k+)

Sered wrote

Dang, someone's REALLY REALLY naive. There was a bearing recall on the S54 but only after the owners pitched a fit and brought a class-action lawsuit. Same goes for the turbos and HPFP on the 335i.

No one is naive here, if there was such a strong case like the ones you mentioned then wouldn't there have been a recall like the ones you mention? Please go to BMW with your evidence and see what they say...

Perhaps the sample size of the engine failures is just too small, they dont just do recalls out of the goodness of their hearts they are usually forced to with no other choice.....obviously there isn't enough force, so why don't you apply some if it's sooo clear to you instead of trying to convince the internet?

To be clear, I'm not saying one shouldn't change their rod bearings as preventative maintenance, they definitely should and the piece of mind is worth the cost.

There are many engines that others have mentioned in past threads that I am not going to bother rehashing, that all have their ills the s65 is not the only engine of all time to have a weak point that needs to be addressed.

Most engines last past the warranty period, the number of failures during warranty is low. Facts are facts, now go fly a kite......or change your rod bearings?

I am not attacking anyone or starting any arguments, just merely saying everyone should just calm down and carry on.

tdott wrote

No one is naive here, if there was such a strong case like the ones you mentioned then wouldn't there have been a recall like the ones you mention? Please go to BMW with your evidence and see what they say...

This tells me you're naive. Businesses don't work like this. If they can avoid a recall by any means, they will. Until it affects their bottom-line (like it did on the S54 class-action suits), they will not address it. This is common (shady) business practice. The fact that you presume otherwise after mountains of evidence showing BMW (and many other companies) do the exact opposite tells me you're naive.

And the rest of your post was hilarious. It's quite obvious you're not paying attention or know much about cars in general. I'm not trying to convince the internet, the data is here already. Anyone with half a brain and experience with cars can take a look at it and see something very weird is going on.

To put bluntly: Go look at the N54 community and find how many motors died prematurely due to rod-bearing or even crank-bearing failure. I don't know of any. Now consider how many more N54s are out there in the wild and how many in the aftermarket are getting beat on hard without any issues. Hell there's several 850whp+ cars running around on stock motors. The fact that there are quite a few M3s that have suffered engine failure before 50k miles and many others that showed bearing wear consistent with 200-300k miles of use tells me something is up. If you need more evidence than that or think BMW 'would have repaired it if it was a problem because they're so nice", then you're essentially saying you'll never be convinced.

I'm not hear to scare anyone, I'm still running original bearings on my car. But I've built engines and been around performance cars for over 15 years; this isn't normal. And people coming in here saying 'oh it's not a big deal at all! BMW is so kind, they would fix it for us if there was a problem!' annoys me.

Sered wrote

This tells me you're naive. Businesses don't work like this. If they can avoid a recall by any means, they will.

You don't seem to get it...

If they can avoid it, it means there isn't a strong enough case like there was for the other recalls. If you think there is, then go ahead and change that.

I won't even address your other non-sense. All irrelevant.

Helmsman wrote

Half down on the oil meeter after a couple of k miles...Doesn't seem right in my view, never quite agreed to the oil consumption some of the engines show. Any idea how much oil half meter represent Phillip?

Yes Nik , I'm serious angry and disapointed about the oil consuption and I've no idea how much oil is half down or on 50% of the oil reader , and I never had this situation before .
Within 3 weeks I'm planning another oil change "again" at my BMW/Dealer and I will ask them how much 50% down represents in liters .
Hope they know it...Because most just [Email]s@ck...lol .
Strange thing is that my car is NOT asking to ad some oil , because previous I was only about 20% down after 5K miles and it asked to ad oil !
Like I said what worries me the most is that it runs rough at high rpm's...and I never heard that before !
Good thing is that I can NOT hear any ticking or rattle noises for the moment.
But I've the feeling something is NOT right with my S65 , and IF something happens with my S65 , I promise you that I will spit flames of fire on here like a dragon !

Doc Oc wrote

Please tell me what measurements you need and why? Do you have the magic number where bearing failure occurs? If not, what is the point? Can you not clearly see that the crank has actually polished the copper in one of those bearings to a high shine? That is what creates excess heat and causes failure. 31k miles and we have heavily scored bearings. If you can't see this is an issue you are either blind or a fool and I think we would all be better off if you stayed out of these bearing threads. I understand trying to tamp down hysteria, but you are not helping anyone.

Compare the bearings in post #24 with those on post #42. If you cannot see the difference, then you might just be the blind fool. The engine in post #24 failed. The one in Post #42 did not. That's why I'm talking about thickness. But that's just one idea, which is proving to be too complex for you, so lets just compare the bearings in post #42 to the brand new coated bearings from failed engines. Did you track down those threads in the other forum? You know, the ones with perfect coated bearings and shiny new oil laid out on the table <5K miles. So that's the more simpler kindergarten idea, I want you to understand. You can still spin brand new Clean bearings. Just don't post pictures of them on this forum. Now, even a blind fool should understand such a basic concept.

squartus wrote

31,000 miles, mods were done after bearing swap.

They are showing copper and were shot , so you did the right thing !
I really appreciate it that you posted the pictures of your bearings , and so another proof that something is really wrong with our S65's !
Thank you Sir .

Mpower, I wouldn't use engine noise as too much of an indicator of your bearing health. So much noise on here gets attributed to bearings but in reality most people never hear anything before failure, unless it is right before the failure. A properly seated bearing will not make a noise no matter the wear until it either gets thin enough to cause the rod to knock or it unseats and starts chattering before it spins. Either way, if you can hear it, it is usually too late. If you are worried, don't wait, especially if you notice a difference in the engine characteristics.

What's your oil report look like?

Killerfish2012 wrote

Compare the bearings in post #24 with those on post #42. If you cannot see the difference, then you might just be the blind fool. The engine in post #24 failed. The one in Post #42 did not. That's why I'm talking about thickness. But that's just one idea, which is proving to be too complex for you, so lets just compare the bearings in post #42 to the brand new coated bearings from failed engines. Did you track down those threads in the other forum? You know, the ones with perfect coated bearings and shiny new oil laid out on the table <5K miles. So that's the more simpler kindergarten idea, I want you to understand. You can still spin brand new Clean bearings. Just don't post pictures of them on this forum. Now, even a blind fool should understand such a basic concept.

So you are using the "schrodinger's cat" rational? Really? All bearings are good until they fail? Genius. Using a chewed up failed bearing or other bearing from a failed engine to compare to bearings coming out of running engines is ridiculous. The thing about taking bearings out of a running engine is that we KNOW it is still good. The engine was still running properly, so why the fuck would we compare that to a failed bearing?

Neither you nor I know just how bad a bearing can look before it fails. Quit acting like you do.

Sered wrote

Dang, someone's REALLY REALLY naive. There was a bearing recall on the S54 but only after the owners pitched a fit and brought a class-action lawsuit. Same goes for the turbos and HPFP on the 335i.

What do you know about the 335I? Have you owned one? Let me educate you bro. First of all the oem HPFP is ok for at least 50K miles, if you run 8lbs of boost like you should. But, we didn't, so BMW took a bath in the recall. As for the turbos, they came running 8lbs of boost, but we all ran more than double that, and they are indeed fine up to 19lbs. Many failed. Many didn't. Turns out that turbos need frequent oil changes. Not the BMW 15K mile intervals. So for those of us who were not ignorant, like me. Our turbos lasted. My 335I has 129K miles on it, was built 10/06, and has the original turbos, trans, and engine. It's called maintenance buddy.

Sered wrote

People expect better than what they're getting. They can get it at any other manufacturer;

Well then they should all go buy a new C7 corvette. Just don't be surprised if your car doesn't even make it to 10K miles. Turns out making engines with tight tolerances on the bearings isn't easy. Car and driver randomly picked one out, and their engine blew at 6K miles. I just had a track day last week where one blew, and out of the 6 total C7 vettes there, another one was there on a replaced motor. Yet go to their forums, and they're not crying or throwing childish hissy fits like you see on here. And if I had a dime for every time someone used "other car manufacturer's engines" as an argument on here.

Doc Oc wrote

So you are using the "schrodinger's cat" rational? Really? All bearings are good until they fail? Genius. What you don't realise is that many of those bearings you are talking about turned to shit after the engine grenaded. You assume that the bearings got that bad before the engine went. Not necessarily true. Once a bearing spins or any failure happens (main or rod) the crank can chew up bearings like gum. Using a chewed up failed bearing or other bearing from a failed engine to compare to bearings coming out of running engines is ridiculous. The thing about taking bearings out of a running engine is that we KNOW it is still good. The engine was still running properly, so why the fuck would we compare that bearing to a failed bearing?

Neither you nor I know just how bad a bearing can look before it fails. Quit acting like you do.

Ok, whatever. Just let me tell you something that I didn't earlier. If your car does fail with those coated bearings, don't come back here and write about it, unless you have serious evidence that it was caused by the coated bearings themselves. You know, evidence like, measurements, and stuff. If you don't and you post pics about it, you will get ban-erased. A really really mean ban+erase that you won't see coming.

Sered wrote

I'm not hear to scare anyone, I'm still running original bearings on my car. But I've built engines and been around performance cars for over 15 years; this isn't normal. And people coming in here saying 'oh it's not a big deal at all! BMW is so kind, they would fix it for us if there was a problem!' annoys me.

Ok so I won't address your N54 comment because at this point, you're just insulting the legacy of our motor. But I will address this slip up comment that you posted. Ok, so I find it funny that most of you hardcore supercharged M3 guys (you know the ones that post all the airport run way videos, and are the most respected members on here), don't change your bearings after supercharging. Instead you just supercharge the car, and rely on babying it for the motor to last. Yet, 9 out of ten times in these pre-supercharger bearing picture threads, you chime in, to support the guy doing it, and join in one side of the argument, and bash all the N/A guys on oem bearings.

IMHO, this is hypocrisy.

Killerfish2012 wrote

Ok, whatever. Just let me tell you something that I didn't earlier. If your car does fail with those coated bearings, don't come back here and write about it, unless you have serious evidence that it was caused by the coated bearings themselves. You know, evidence like, measurements, and stuff. If you don't and you post pics about it, you will get ban-erased. A really really mean ban+erase that you won't see coming.

I can't find anything on failed extra clearance VAC bearings anywhere on the net. Someone really went to great lengths to cover this up including VAC and Malek who installs the VAC kits all the time.

Doc Oc wrote

I can't find anything on failed extra clearance VAC bearings anywhere on the net. Someone really went to great lengths to cover this up including VAC and Malek who installs the VAC kits all the time.

Careful man, you've been asking for it for a while. These guys pay for this site, and read everything you post, and probably even your PMs. You've been warned.

Wow, you should switch to mid grade....won't make you so paranoid:)