5 Cyclists Killed

I have been a cyclist for 32 years and love the sport, and apologize on behalf of my fellow cyclists who behave like asshats on the road. My town is a training venue for many professionals due to the elevation and terrain. During Spring/Summer/Fall I see many other cyclists on the road, and for the most part, everyone behaves according to the rules of the road. There are always exceptions to the latter, tourists are plentiful here, and sometimes they rent a bike to ride many of the trails in and around town, this is where it gets interesting, and very dangerous. As passionate drivers visiting this board, please take a moment when you do see a cyclist, to drive as defensively as possible around someone on a bicycle. After all, is it worth killing someone to make up a nanosecond of time? As to distracted driving, I see at least 6/10 drivers texting as they pass by me, it has truly made me reconsider cycling altogether. The situation where the five cyclists were killed by a motorist in Michigan is random, I suspect the driver was intoxicated, but still, 5 people lost their lives and several remain in critical condition. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/08/five-dead-four-injured-after-pickup-rams-into-group-of-bicyclists-near-kalamazoo-mich/

Be aware, that a competent and fit cyclist can ride at the speed limit on urban roads (25 -30 MPH), so be aware of this when making right turns at intersections after you have just passed a cyclist. This situation caused me to collide with a vehicle where, clearly, the driver had not anticipated my speed and decided to turn directly in front of me. Thanks for your time!

Thanks for posting.

Just read about this incident this morning. Very sad.



Check the link below and stop in.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?p=20068502#post20068502

radiofrequency wrote

I have been a cyclist for 32 years and love the sport, and apologize on behalf of my fellow cyclists who behave like asshats on the road. My town is a training venue for many professionals due to the elevation and terrain. During Spring/Summer/Fall I see many other cyclists on the road, and for the most part, everyone behaves according to the rules of the road. There are always exceptions to the latter, tourists are plentiful here, and sometimes they rent a bike to ride many of the trails in and around town, this is where it gets interesting, and very dangerous. As passionate drivers visiting this board, please take a moment when you do see a cyclist, to drive as defensively as possible around someone on a bicycle. After all, is it worth killing someone to make up a nanosecond of time? As to distracted driving, I see at least 6/10 drivers texting as they pass by me, it has truly made me reconsider cycling altogether. The situation where the five cyclists were killed by a motorist in Michigan is random, I suspect the driver was intoxicated, but still, 5 people lost their lives and several remain in critical condition. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/08/five-dead-four-injured-after-pickup-rams-into-group-of-bicyclists-near-kalamazoo-mich/

Be aware, that a competent and fit cyclist can ride at the speed limit on urban roads (25 -30 MPH), so be aware of this when making right turns at intersections after you have just passed a cyclist. This situation caused me to collide with a vehicle where, clearly, the driver had not anticipated my speed and decided to turn directly in front of me. Thanks for your time!

Excuse me if I'm missing something here. But, if I've passed the cyclist and he then proceeds to drive into me as I make a legal right turn (signaling of course). Isn't that completely on the cyclist ??

iamwingman wrote

Excuse me if I'm missing something here. But, if I've passed the cyclist and he then proceeds to drive into me as I make a legal right turn (signaling of course). Isn't that completely on the cyclist ??

If someone turned right across the lane you were in and you hit them, would that be on you?

If we are talking 4 lane road and I turn right from the left lane, then yes, absolutely on me. If we are talking two lane, and I've passed him, then no. On him.

jtodd_fl wrote

If someone turned right across the lane you were in and you hit them, would that be on you?

Not quite the same thing. In many places you are not allowed to drive in the bike lane, so you can't pass, then move over before turning. You have no choice but to turn across the bike lane. In the absence of a bike lane, you could pass, then move over a bit, but you'd still most likely be far enough away from the curb where a biker could try to continue on while you're turning.

This is one of those situations where both parties need to be aware and thinking. But as the biker is the one who is most likely to be injured in a collision, the smart move for him/her is to yield.

That said, the driver of the car needs to ensure sufficient distance and signal well before turning. If there won't be enough room for that, then slow down and turn behind the biker. It's really just common sense, although way too many drivers have no such thing.

iamwingman wrote

Excuse me if I'm missing something here. But, if I've passed the cyclist and he then proceeds to drive into me as I make a legal right turn (signaling of course). Isn't that completely on the cyclist ??

In all 50 states, people on bikes are required to follow the same laws as other drivers.

Here are a few key principles that underpin all US traffic laws:

First Come, First Served
Everyone on the road is entitled to the lane width they need. This includes the space behind, to each side and the space in front. If you want to use someone else’s space you must yield to whoever is using it.

Ride on the Right
In the United States, everyone must drive on the right-hand side of the roadway.

Yielding to Crossing Traffic
When you come to an intersection, if you don’t have the right of way, you must yield.

Yielding when Changing Lanes
If you want to change lanes, you must yield to traffic that is in your new lane of travel.

Speed Positioning
The slowest vehicles on the road should be the furthest to the right. Where you position yourself on the road depends on the location of any parked cars, your speed, and your destination. Always pass on the left.

Lane Positioning
Bikes can share the same lane with other drivers. If a lane is wide enough to share with another vehicle (about 14 feet), ride three feet to the right of traffic. If the lane is not wide enough to share, “take the lane” by riding in the middle.

Intersection positioning
When there is a lane that is used for more than one direction, use the rightmost lane going in the direction you are traveling.

Follow all street signs, signals, and markings

First come first served is what you're looking for. Remember that a bicycle is afforded the same right of way as motor vehicles and must be treated as such.

Your hypothetical is the same as you traveling in the far right lane behind another car going 10mph slower than you. You going round that car and then turning right in front of it forcing it to emergency brake or crash into you.

This is part of the problem with cars and bicycles sharing the road. Most of the problem is lack of knowledge. And that goes for both motor vehicle drivers and cyclists.

Like G.I. Joe, knowing is half the battle.

M_Six wrote

Not quite the same thing. In many places you are not allowed to drive in the bike lane, so you can't pass, then move over before turning. You have no choice but to turn across the bike lane. In the absence of a bike lane, you could pass, then move over a bit, but you'd still most likely be far enough away from the curb where a biker could try to continue on while you're turning.

This is one of those situations where both parties need to be aware and thinking. But as the biker is the one who is most likely to be injured in a collision, the smart move for him/her is to yield.

That said, the driver of the car needs to ensure sufficient distance and signal well before turning. If there won't be enough room for that, then slow down and turn behind the biker. It's really just common sense, although way too many drivers have no such thing.

True. My point was really what you said in the last two paragraphs. I think the questioner failed to realize that the car passed and then turned across the bikers path, because he failed to assess the bikers speed. As always, defensive skills are important, but the situation described, as it was described, hard to imagine how this was not the fault of the car driver, if fault needs to be assigned. Thanks for bringing a balanced level head to the convo.

iamwingman wrote

If we are talking 4 lane road and I turn right from the left lane, then yes, absolutely on me. If we are talking two lane, and I've passed him, then no. On him.

If a cop witnessed this acton and were so inclined, he could cite you for this. IF we're talking about you overtaking, putting 10 to 20 feet between you and the cyclist and turning. You should yield to the cyclist and turn behind them.

M_Six wrote

Not quite the same thing. In many places you are not allowed to drive in the bike lane, so you can't pass, then move over before turning. You have no choice but to turn across the bike lane. In the absence of a bike lane, you could pass, then move over a bit, but you'd still most likely be far enough away from the curb where a biker could try to continue on while you're turning.

This is one of those situations where both parties need to be aware and thinking. But as the biker is the one who is most likely to be injured in a collision, the smart move for him/her is to yield.

That said, the driver of the car needs to ensure sufficient distance and signal well before turning. If there won't be enough room for that, then slow down and turn behind the biker. It's really just common sense, although way too many drivers have no such thing.

The bike lane is yet another lane on the road in which drivers must yield to when changing lanes, which includes turning through an intersection.

Like you said, treat a bike as a car and you're good.

That's very sad and as both a car driver and a recreational cyclist, I really wish cars and bikes did not have to share roads.

I've noticed cyclists like to have it any way that benefits them. Which makes it hard for car drivers. When it serves them to be treated as pedestrians, they want to be treated as such. When it serves them to be treated as cars, they want to be treated as such. And of course, when they want to be treated as cyclists. It gives them an out if there is an altercation, regardless of the situation. It can get confusing for a driver. And it's really not fair.

Your hypothetical is the same as you traveling in the far right lane behind another car going 10mph slower than you. You going round that car and then turning right in front of it forcing it to emergency brake or crash into you.

Exactly. If you don't have the distance to pass, signal, move over, and still give the biker time to slow before you turn, then it's on you. Better off then to just slow and stay behind the biker until you reach the turn.

That said, I've been in situations where a long string of bikers were riding in a line and wouldn't make room for cars to make turns. Or they ride 2 or 3 across and force cars to go much slower than the speed limit. Car drivers are not the only ones guilty of hogging the road.

If you really want to see aggressive and irresponsible bike riders, go drive around a large university. You won't believe some of the careless stupidity you see.

iamwingman wrote

I've noticed cyclists like to have it any way that benefits them. Which makes it hard for car drivers. When it serves them to be treated as pedestrians, they want to be treated as such. When it serves them to be treated as cars, they want to be treated as such. And of course, when they want to be treated as cyclists. It gives them an out if there is an altercation, regardless of the situation. It can get confusing for a driver. And it's really not fair.

It's challenging for sure. Like you said, there are plenty of cyclists who think they own the road they're on and all cars should yield to them as if they were a pedestrian inside an endless crosswalk. On the flip side, you have motorist that think cyclist have no right to be on the road and give them no quarter.

As the OP said, look at it in the scope of your life. Being held up 10 to 20 seconds, hell even 1 to 2 minutes because of a cyclist is nothing. Certainly not worth endangering someones life, no matter how big of douche bag they are.

M_Six wrote

Exactly. If you don't have the distance to pass, signal, move over, and still give the biker time to slow before you turn, then it's on you. Better off then to just slow and stay behind the biker until you reach the turn.

That said, I've been in situations where a long string of bikers are riding in a line and won't make room for cars to make turns. Or they ride 2 or 3 across and force cars to go much slower than the speed limit. Car drivers are not the only ones guilty of hogging the road.

The groups are a hot debate these days. Cyclists who ride in large groups of 10 to 15 riders contend that their group should be treated as a single vehicle not unlike a truck pulling a trailer going under the speed limit. Motorist tend to disagree and think the group of riders should be single-file, riding within inches from the edge of the road.

In either case, the car would have to give 3' according to the law which on roads with no shoulder forces them into the oncoming lane. Would you rather have to travel into the oncoming lane to pass something 15' long or something 40' long?

bimmette wrote

That's very sad and as both a car driver and a recreational cyclist, I really wish cars and bikes did not have to share roads.

Me too, i wish the cars would just stay home.

I try to split my time on the bike trails and road. I figure that lowers my odds of being hit.....by a car, bottle, brick, paintballs, water jug, Burger King bags of trash, etc...

Good times.

I personally dont have an issue with cyclists on the open road like the situation in the story but I do have a problem with them in a congested city area. Lately here cops have been cracking down them for running lights and making illegal turns. It's 1 point on your license if caught and from what I've heard you pretty much cannot contest it in court. My old crossfit coach and her husband were stopped right by my place and issued tickets then found guilty in court lol.

In larger metro areas like NY I fucking hate the bike shares when tourists get on them. They have absolutely ZERO idea of rules of the road and will ride out in the middle of traffic and not give af. Then when some 13yo splits a lane going through an intersection and gets hit...acts like they werent at fault bc he/she was on a bike. Give me a break.

But if it's like a typical county road outside of the city... I have zero problem driving really slow behind them or moving over to pass.

M_Six wrote

That said, I've been in situations where a long string of bikers were riding in a line and wouldn't make room for cars to make turns. Or they ride 2 or 3 across and force cars to go much slower than the speed limit. Car drivers are not the only ones guilty of hogging the road.

If you really want to see aggressive and irresponsible bike riders, go drive around a large university. You won't believe some of the careless stupidity you see.

To expound on the group ride issue. The town of San Antonio, FL has been a destination for cyclist to ride on saturday and sunday mornings for decades. The growing tension finally made the news because of so many motorist AND cyclist calling the police to complain and report incidents. The mayor had called a town meeting of sorts, explained that the motorist need to treat the cyclist as cars and told the cyclist they need to obey all the traffic laws.

Then the sheriff began patrolling the area more closely on Saturday and Sunday mornings. They began citing motorist and cyclist alike for disregarding the traffic laws. This got everyone kind of in line. The cyclists began making their rides more organized and splitting up the groups to manageable sizes on more heavily traveled roads. It was also pointed out that even though the law says that if the lane is too narrow to share the lane, a cyclist should "take the lane" by riding in the middle, that when a motorist is being held up cyclists should move as far to the right as possible to allow the motorist to pass.

There are still those imbeciles who throw shit at us and nearly clip us with mirrors, but those incidents are on the decline. I think the advent of helmet and bike cams have got people behaving a little better.

But San Ann is still the best place to ride due to the long exposure to sharing the road with cyclists. It's a small town and there is no way any person living there hasn't been exposed to swarms of cyclists on the weekends. That said, just 2 weekends ago, a cyclist was struck and killed on my normal riding route. A 50 year old local resident who rides out there everyday was hit by a 20 year old girl.



Your point about university cyclists probably has more to do with liberal entitlement than anything else. haha. But you're right, it's scary driving a car on university campuses. It's almost as if people are trying to commit suicide by jumping in front of your car.

EALm4 wrote

I personally dont have an issue with cyclists on the open road like the situation in the story but I do have a problem with them in a congested city area. Lately here cops have been cracking down them for running lights and making illegal turns. It's 1 point on your license if caught and from what I've heard you pretty much cannot contest it in court. My old crossfit coach and her husband were stopped right by my place and issued tickets then found guilty in court lol.

In larger metro areas like NY I fucking hate the bike shares when tourists get on them. They have absolutely ZERO idea of rules of the road and will ride out in the middle of traffic and not give af. Then when some 13yo splits a lane going through an intersection and gets hit...acts like they werent at fault bc he/she was on a bike. Give me a break.

But if it's like a typical county road outside of the city... I have zero problem driving really slow behind them or moving over to pass.

NYC is a mess. You see cyclists on the road but when there's traffic they get on the sidewalk. When they get stuck at a red light then they ride on the crosswalk lol. That's why nobody knows how to share the road with them here.

EALm4 wrote

I personally dont have an issue with cyclists on the open road like the situation in the story but I do have a problem with them in a congested city area. Lately here cops have been cracking down them for running lights and making illegal turns. It's 1 point on your license if caught and from what I've heard you pretty much cannot contest it in court. My old crossfit coach and her husband were stopped right by my place and issued tickets then found guilty in court lol.

In larger metro areas like NY I fucking hate the bike shares when tourists get on them. They have absolutely ZERO idea of rules of the road and will ride out in the middle of traffic and not give af. Then when some 13yo splits a lane going through an intersection and gets hit...acts like they werent at fault bc he/she was on a bike. Give me a break.

But if it's like a typical county road outside of the city... I have zero problem driving really slow behind them or moving over to pass.

That is crap and cops should cite cyclists for blowing traffic control devices.

The problem with a group ride is that it's safer for the cyclist to cross a stop sign intersection as a group rather than each individual making a complete stop. That was one of the points cops focused on several years ago in San Ann. There would be a group of 20 guys roll up to a stop sign. The guy in front would yell clear and they'd all move through the intersection. Then the cops would stop the last 18 riders and give them a ticket for running a stop sign. That's where the concept of the group being a single vehicle came from.

I'm lucky to have that place only a short 30 min drive away from me. This is the typical road out there. Out of 3 hours of riding out there, i probably spend about 15 to 20 min on a busy road with no shoulder. Scariest part of my week.

radiofrequency wrote

I have been a cyclist for 32 years and love the sport, and apologize on behalf of my fellow cyclists who behave like asshats on the road. My town is a training venue for many professionals due to the elevation and terrain. During Spring/Summer/Fall I see many other cyclists on the road, and for the most part, everyone behaves according to the rules of the road. There are always exceptions to the latter, tourists are plentiful here, and sometimes they rent a bike to ride many of the trails in and around town, this is where it gets interesting, and very dangerous. As passionate drivers visiting this board, please take a moment when you do see a cyclist, to drive as defensively as possible around someone on a bicycle. After all, is it worth killing someone to make up a nanosecond of time? As to distracted driving, I see at least 6/10 drivers texting as they pass by me, it has truly made me reconsider cycling altogether. The situation where the five cyclists were killed by a motorist in Michigan is random, I suspect the driver was intoxicated, but still, 5 people lost their lives and several remain in critical condition. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/06/08/five-dead-four-injured-after-pickup-rams-into-group-of-bicyclists-near-kalamazoo-mich/

Be aware, that a competent and fit cyclist can ride at the speed limit on urban roads (25 -30 MPH), so be aware of this when making right turns at intersections after you have just passed a cyclist. This situation caused me to collide with a vehicle where, clearly, the driver had not anticipated my speed and decided to turn directly in front of me. Thanks for your time!

As an aside, if you live in a major metropolitan city that offers bike rentals such as Capital Bikeshare in DC or Citi Bike in NYC, these bikes stand out like crazy so when I see one I tend to be careful around these bikes too since they tend to be tourists or otherwise novice bike riders just enjoying a casual bike ride and may not have the situational awareness that a more experience cyclist may have. I've had a few close run ins with novice cyclists seemingly forgetting they're sharing the highway with the rest of us. I'm even more on alert these days since the DC area is VERY popular for cyclists and with the metro closings, that number has increased a ton it seems like.

That said, I hope they throw that asshole in jail for life.

Your point about university cyclists probably has more to do with liberal entitlement than anything else. haha. But you're right, it's scary driving a car on university campuses. It's almost as if people are trying to commit suicide by jumping in front of your car.

I wouldn't call it liberal entitlement, but certainly student entitlement. The kids are mollycoddled in the extreme and feel it's their right to just walk out into traffic or blast through stop signs on their bikes. The ones that really irk me are the students wearing athletic clothing who walk veeeery slowly across crosswalks or even worse, are texting and stop in the middle of the crosswalk to finish typing a text.

A few years ago a student was killed at the university where I worked when she literally walked right in front of a bus. The onboard video from the bus showed her walking right up to the crosswalk and without looking or stopping, she stepped out in front the bus. She was talking to her mother on her cellphone. Unbelievably the parents sued the university and the bus line.

M_Six wrote

I wouldn't call it liberal entitlement, but certainly student entitlement. The kids are mollycoddled in the extreme and feel it's their right to just walk out into traffic or blast through stop signs on their bikes. The ones that really irk me are the students wearing athletic clothing who walk veeeery slowly across crosswalks or even worse, are texting and stop in the middle of the crosswalk to finish typing a text.

A few years ago a student was killed at the university where I worked when she literally walked right in front of a bus. The onboard video from the bus showed her walking right up to the crosswalk and without looking or stopping, she stepped out in front the bus. She was talking to her mother on her cellphone. Unbelievably the parents sued the university and the bus line.

Kids are just dumbasses.

I used to do that in college too, but that's because I went to Virginia Tech and for whatever reason, cars always insisted on stopping for students. Even then I used to joke about how if we tried doing this in any other place, we'd of died long ago. Blacksburg was/is just a friendly place.

I have had a lot of close calls with cars passing me and turning right, more that I can remember with many close calls! Thats why I take up the lane when I ride now

Drivers just flat out are not paying attention or dont understand how fast cyclists can go. If drivers take more than a second too see us and see how quick we are going it will help. Same problem that drivers have when your on the freeway going 80 and they merge in your lane going 65, if they look at the mirror for more that a second and thing to themselves "Hey that car is coming up to me at a fast rate of speed, let me just let it pass before I turn into his lane." But sadly that will never happen.

Ride and drive safe everyone!