E46 or e92

AMG2M3 wrote

Agree money is much better placed in appreciating assets such as rental homes versus depreciating ones like our cars. I guess I am on the conservative side when it comes to car purchases.

Then again, it makes little sense to borrow money to buy a depreciating asset. I buy vehicles with marginal, discretionary or disposable income.

GVIFlyer wrote

Copy that. Would you go with a donor M3 or after market parts on eBay or equivalent? How would you transfer the carbon fibre roof?

Not sure why you're so hung up on this?

I retrofitted a cf roof on my m3 coupe. Remove front/rear glass and headliner/sunroof cassette. Remove roof rack trim. Drill out the spot welds. Remove metal roof. Glue in the cf roof. Reinstall headliner/glass.

Obioban wrote

GVIFlyer wrote

Copy that. Would you go with a donor M3 or after market parts on eBay or equivalent? How would you transfer the carbon fibre roof?

Not sure why you're so hung up on this?

I retrofitted a cf roof on my m3 coupe. Remove front/rear glass and headliner/sunroof cassette. Remove roof rack trim. Drill out the spot welds. Remove metal roof. Glue in the cf roof. Reinstall headliner/glass.

Hey Obioban, I have a question for you, mostly in jest but a question nonetheless. How about turning an E93 M3 into an E92? Kinda the opposite of what one would do back in the day turning coupes and sedans into verts. How about the logistics of the install? Too difficult? Finding a donor roof shouldn't be any problem as these vehicles are getting a little older and kids start buying them up for $25k and doing what kids do. If it seems that I'm trying to wish my E93 away I have no idea what you guys are talking about? Would anyone like to trade an E92 for a E93 before I do something stupid and turn it into a custom/retrofit/1 of 1 Frankenstein M3?

Far cheaper and easier to change cars than put a roof on a vert.

While I enjoy having the cf roof, that video reminds me why it's a project I never want to do again.

Obioban wrote

Far cheaper and easier to change cars than put a roof on a vert.

While I enjoy having the cf roof, that video reminds me why it's a project I never want to do again.

The logistics behind that just seem to be way too intense as a DIY. I can see doing it for a living but wow, you did all that?

BOOF-M3 wrote

The logistics behind that just seem to be way too intense as a DIY. I can see doing it for a living but wow, you did all that?

I everything other than the glass removal/installation and welding in the bow.

Obioban wrote

BOOF-M3 wrote

The logistics behind that just seem to be way too intense as a DIY. I can see doing it for a living but wow, you did all that?

I everything other than the glass removal/installation and welding in the bow.

A lot of work.

Obioban wrote

Not sure why you're so hung up on this?

I retrofitted a cf roof on my m3 coupe. Remove front/rear glass and headliner/sunroof cassette. Remove roof rack trim. Drill out the spot welds. Remove metal roof. Glue in the cf roof. Reinstall headliner/glass.

My conversation was with SYT_Shadow, not you, who asserted that a M3 was little more than a 335i with all of the M3 parts added. The point of my questioning was to make it clear that it would be cheaper and the outcome better if he simply bought a M3.

Your situation was different, you wanted a M3 Touring. The only way to have one was to proceed as you did. Thank you for describing your process for the jury-rigged carbon fiber roof on your M3 coupe. Once again, if I had a sunroof M3, not a reasonable assumption but I'll proceed, and wanted a CF roof M3, I would trade the sunroof car in on the more desirable M3.

GVIFlyer wrote

My conversation was with SYT_Shadow, not you, who asserted that a M3 was little more than a 335i with all of the M3 parts added. The point of my questioning was to make it clear that it would be cheaper and the outcome better if he simply bought a M3.

Your situation was different, you wanted a M3 Touring. The only way to have one was to proceed as you did. Thank you for describing your process for the jury-rigged carbon fiber roof on your M3 coupe. Once again, if I had a sunroof M3, not a reasonable assumption but I'll proceed, and wanted a CF roof M3, I would trade the sunroof car in on the more desirable M3.

I don't think anyone was questioning that it's cheaper to buy a, say, M3 coupe, than convert a 335i coupe to an M3-- including SYT_Shadow. His point was just that the M3 is the sum of it's parts. If you put all the parts on the 335i, it's indistinguishable from a factory built m3.

Not sure why you think the CF roof retrofit was jury rigged-- I did it per the BMW TIS procedure for replacing the CF roof on a CSL (or I presume e92, though I haven't looked). BMW roof bow, BMW roof glue, etc. If something cracked your roof, it's the repair procedure that would be done on your car (well, roof removal procedure would be different, but reassembly would be the same). A good e9X analogy would be if someone had an e90 M3 (reasonable, I know I think it's best of the body styles offered) and wanted the CF roof. There is no factory version.

BOOF-M3 wrote

Hey Obioban, I have a question for you, mostly in jest but a question nonetheless. How about turning an E93 M3 into an E92? Kinda the opposite of what one would do back in the day turning coupes and sedans into verts. How about the logistics of the install? Too difficult? Finding a donor roof shouldn't be any problem as these vehicles are getting a little older and kids start buying them up for $25k and doing what kids do. If it seems that I'm trying to wish my E93 away I have no idea what you guys are talking about? Would anyone like to trade an E92 for a E93 before I do something stupid and turn it into a custom/retrofit/1 of 1 Frankenstein M3?

Eh, it's not just "putting a roof" on. The 'vert chassis/body is quite different with extra guessing at the A and B pillar lower bulkheads and the junction between trunk/rear seat. Plus, you'd need the trunk lid, rear glass, entire rear quarters, new B pillars from floor to new roof, new A pillars, etc., etc.

It's simply not a "put a roof on it" situation. They are fundamentally different from a structural standpoint - the rear quarters/A/B/C pillars are inherent to the coupe's structure. To do this would require literally disassembling the chassis down to it's individual 'unit body' components and them rebuilding from the ground up using coupe chassis components. And even then, I'd be good money that the basic underlying structures are different and thus not interchangeable.

VASTLY different than swapping a carbon roof panel onto a steel/sunroof coupe.

Obioban wrote

I don't think anyone was questioning that it's cheaper to buy a, say, M3 coupe, than convert a 335i coupe to an M3-- including SYT_Shadow. His point was just that the M3 is the sum of it's parts. If you put all the parts on the 335i, it's indistinguishable from a factory built m3.

Not sure why you think the CF roof retrofit was jury rigged-- I did it per the BMW TIS procedure for replacing the CF roof on a CSL (or I presume e92, though I haven't looked). BMW roof bow, BMW roof glue, etc. If something cracked your roof, it's the repair procedure that would be done on your car (well, roof removal procedure would be different, but reassembly would be the same). A good e9X analogy would be if someone had an e90 M3 (reasonable, I know I think it's best of the body styles offered) and wanted the CF roof. There is no factory version.

Copy all. Point taken.

Dude. Nothing can match the sound from that V8. I know the S54 has a very hard edge sound when you rev it, however, it cannot match the sound from the 4 liters of might that is the S65

Dr. Dre wrote

Dude. Nothing can match the sound from that V8. I know the S54 has a very hard edge sound when you rev it, however, it cannot match the sound from the 4 liters of might that is the S65

I'd certainly agree the s65 exhaust sounds better than the s54 exhaust.

Inside the car, I find the s54 engine sound far more exciting. The S65 feels like it's bored at redline, the s54 you feel like it can't possibly continue to hold together.

... and then there's the CSL airbox option. The only car I've heard that sounds better inside than a CSL airboxed e46 M3 is the McLaren F1... which actually sounds like a CSL airboxed s54 (makes sense since the BMW V12 used in the F1 is actually very much just two BMW high revving inline 6s (same pistons/rods/etc as the s50B32), with ITBs and a big carbon airbox on it).

But, yeah, the s54 exhaust note is crap, with any combination of parts. That's why my muffler is quieter than stock, so all I hear is CSL airbox

Obioban wrote

I'd certainly agree the s65 exhaust sounds better than the s54 exhaust.

Inside the car, I find the s54 engine sound far more exciting. The S65 feels like it's bored at redline, the s54 you feel like it can't possibly continue to hold together.

The only car I've heard that sounds better inside than a CSL airboxed e46 M3 is the McLaren F1... which actually sounds like a CSL airboxed s54 (makes sense since the BMW V12 used in the F1 is actually very much just two BMW high revving inline 6s (same pistons/rods/etc as the s50B32), with ITBs and a big carbon airbox on it).

But, yeah, the s54 exhaust note is crap, with any combination of parts. That's why my muffler is quieter than stock, so all I hear is CSL airbox

You're cheating with that CSL box :D

However, I am pushing Karbonius to finally release a full 'CSL' carbon airbox for the S65! I can't wait, that will sound so glorious!!

SYT_Shadow wrote

You're cheating with that CSL box :D

However, I am pushing Karbonius to finally release a full 'CSL' carbon airbox for the S65! I can't wait, that will sound so glorious!!

BMW made a couple for the e60 M5 CSL. I bet that was something to hear, on the stroker V10.

I wonder where Manhart got theirs for their s85 e46 kit :hmm:

Obioban wrote

I wonder where Manhart got theirs for their s85 e46 kit :hmm:

Whoa!

Obioban wrote

BMW made a couple for the e60 M5 CSL. I bet that was something to hear, on the stroker V10.
]

Beautiful! I knew about the E60 CSL but not that it used a CF airbox

Too bad the E60 was never mated to a DCT.
A friend has a 2009 6MT and I have right of first refusal with it

A full CF airbox on the E9X will sound spectacular. The tiny CF Dinan elbow already makes a noticeable difference in sound, I can't imagine the whole airbox!

SYT_Shadow wrote

Beautiful! I knew about the E60 CSL but not that it used a CF airbox

Too bad the E60 was never mated to a DCT.
A friend has a 2009 6MT and I have right of first refusal with it

A full CF airbox on the E9X will sound spectacular. The tiny CF Dinan elbow already makes a noticeable difference in sound, I can't imagine the whole airbox!

There's some aftermarket efforts on M5board to mate the e9XM DCT to the e60/s85, including one guy who claims he's done it (albeit it with no proof offered other than a video of him driving around).

That said, after driving a couple manual e60 M's, I can't imagine owning it any other way.

But....

.... I think the e60 M5 reliability situation is too sever to be a valid ownership proposition (especially as I don't see a purpose to owning an M5 for any purpose other than DD (which means many miles), as the bulk/size of thing is a huge compromise that doesn't make sense for any function other than that). It's sad, as the e60 M5 chassis/engine/dynamics are far more in keeping with what I like from a car than my e39 M5 is.

Obioban wrote

There's some aftermarket efforts on M5board to mate the e9XM DCT to the e60/s85, including one guy who claims he's done it (albeit it with no proof offered other than a video of him driving around).

That said, after driving a couple manual e60 M's, I can't imagine owning it any other way.

But....

.... I think the e60 M5 reliability situation is too sever to be a valid ownership proposition (especially as I don't see a purpose to owning an M5 for any purpose other than DD, as the bulk/size of thing is a huge compromise that doesn't make sense for any function other than that). It's sad, as the e60 M5 chassis/engine/dynamics are far more in keeping with what I like from a car than my e39 M5 is.

I read one long thread about the DCT but didn't see anything concrete. Lots of lala land going on in that thread.

My issue with the E60 M5 is also the reliability. The 6MT solves like 50% of those issues if you get a late model year car.

I'm doing rod bearings on one soon and will disassemble the high pressure vanos pump to see if it's happy

SYT_Shadow wrote

I read one long thread about the DCT but didn't see anything concrete. Lots of lala land going on in that thread.

My issue with the E60 M5 is also the reliability. The 6MT solves like 50% of those issues if you get a late model year car.

I'm doing rod bearings on one soon and will disassemble the high pressure vanos pump to see if it's happy

It's gas mileage is also f**king terrible! But I would absolutely love to own one. I just don't have the stones because I am not a DiYer AND it's parts are quite expensive. Are they reliable in 6mt form? And like to what degree? They aren't too pricey these days. V10 M6 also. SYT, in your professional opinion, could you please compare the e60 m5 6mt reliability vs the e90 m3 6mt reliability? Just curious since I love the e60 m5 and would love to own a 2009 or 2010 at some point.

Random q... you guys know a bank or lender that gives loans for private sellers? Chase only gives loans for dealerships for some reason