E90 170k rod bearing question

TrAcK TRaP wrote

If original rod bearings made to 170K, I would've leave it alone. Probably they are good for another 170K. If original owner was a forum member it was his 4th bearing. Mine has 84K miles daily drive. I really drive the car hard and no plan for RB replacement. Oil change every 6-8K miles when I have time. Having an accident and totaling the car has more chance than RB failure..

TrAcK TRaP wrote

If original rod bearings made to 170K, I would've leave it alone. Probably they are good for another 170K..... Having an accident and totaling the car has more chance than RB failure..

I'm not even going to comment on the first part... my brain is too exhausted today.. however, regarding the last statement.. those are completely different, as one is covered by insurance, the other is clearly not covered by insurance or a warranty in this case.

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The number of hours charged is just that. It doesn't matter if it took them 2 days or 2 hours.

Fwiw I work at a Hyundai dealer and our labor rate is $140. It's different everywhere.

wfdeacon88 wrote

I'm not even going to comment on the first part... my brain is too exhausted today.. however, regarding the last statement.. those are completely different, as one is covered by insurance, the other is clearly not covered by insurance or a warranty in this case.

Don't feel the troll, none of what he says ever makes sense. The way his name is written says it all.

So, just an update. The m3 is still at the Indy shop. . They ordered the wrong oil pan gasket, and needed to buy a special tool for something. Not sure what.. Maybe stretch tool for bolts??

I’m overly anxious. Only drove this car once.

Took some pics right before tow truck came to pick it up. I’ll have pictures of the rod bearing shells soon enough.

Any ideas what I can do to get my mind off it?

Looking for exhausts, and parts isn’t helping.

bmwpower603 wrote

So, just an update. The m3 is still at the Indy shop. . They ordered the wrong oil pan gasket, and needed to buy a special tool for something. Not sure what.. Maybe stretch tool for bolts??

I’m overly anxious. Only drove this car once.

Took some pics right before tow truck came to pick it up. I’ll have pictures of the rod bearing shells soon enough.

Any ideas what I can do to get my mind off it?

Looking for exhausts, and parts isn’t helping.

Love the color!!

Given there is ZERO possibility to measure the rod bolt stretch on the S65, I have $5 on that they did not have the 6" long T30 for the hard to reach oil pan bolts Sure do hope that is was not the 12-point 12mm socket...

As for keeping you mind off the M3... Perhaps bourbon would help?

bmwpower603 wrote

So, just an update. The m3 is still at the Indy shop. . They ordered the wrong oil pan gasket, and needed to buy a special tool for something. Not sure what.. Maybe stretch tool for bolts??

I’m overly anxious. Only drove this car once.

Took some pics right before tow truck came to pick it up. I’ll have pictures of the rod bearing shells soon enough.

Any ideas what I can do to get my mind off it?

Looking for exhausts, and parts isn’t helping.

You could spiff up the garage and get it all set for a nice homecoming! Maybe some ambient lighting, soft music and an ///M wall banner.......

You're taking care of a necessary preventative maintenance item before driving it, that takes a lot of self restraint! You should reward yourself by getting some mods on the way now to slap on right when you get the car back

These cars are great in stock form don't get me wrong, but the right mods will make it something else..

Scharbag wrote

Love the color!!

Given there is ZERO possibility to measure the rod bolt stretch on the S65, I have $5 on that they did not have the 6" long T30 for the hard to reach oil pan bolts Sure do hope that is was not the 12-point 12mm socket...

As for keeping you mind off the M3... Perhaps bourbon would help?

What I do know is..

They have done bearings on e46s. Not sure if that uses 12point or not.

Usually most German Indy shops should have the long torx though... Maybe some kind of plasti gauge or something?

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1622510

tdott wrote

Don't feel the troll, none of what he says ever makes sense. The way his name is written says it all.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1622510

He did replaced the rod bearings and what happened? Makes sense now?

TrAcK TRaP wrote

tdott wrote

Don't feel the troll, none of what he says ever makes sense. The way his name is written says it all.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1622510

He did replaced the rod bearings and what happened? Makes sense now?

that's beyond deceptive and not very nice to point out while this guy is waiting on his car. There's no telling what happened to that car, he even posted it was probably the main bearing that went. You're clearly reaching for anything to make yourself feel better.

wfdeacon88 wrote

that's beyond deceptive and not very nice to point out while this guy is waiting on his car. There's no telling what happened to that car, he even posted it was probably the main bearing that went. You're clearly reaching for anything to make yourself feel better.

Well I just wanted to point out that sometimes replacing rod bearings doesn't save us. tdott said my username says it all and what I say don't make sense which I track my car more than his age a year with original bearings and I have no plan to replace them. I repeat again rod bearing failure is way less than %1

wfdeacon88 wrote

that's beyond deceptive and not very nice to point out while this guy is waiting on his car. There's no telling what happened to that car, he even posted it was probably the main bearing that went. You're clearly reaching for anything to make yourself feel better.

And I forgot to say that I really felt bad for him it makes me sad every time I hear this stupid RB failures. Maybe I am the only one live like there is no tomorrow..

TrAcK TRaP wrote

Well I just wanted to point out that sometimes replacing rod bearings doesn't save us. tdott said my username says it all and what I say don't make sense which I track my car more than his age a year with original bearings and I have no plan to replace them. I repeat again rod bearing failure is way less than %1

Please share your data with us to backup your 1% statement.

Scharbag wrote

Please share your data with us to backup your 1% statement.

Out of 65985 bmw m3 e9x and x number has a RB failure. I found the number of bmw e9x was made and you find us the X lets see the %..

TrAcK TRaP wrote

Out of 65985 bmw m3 e9x and x number has a RB failure. I found the number of bmw e9x was made and you find us the X lets see the %..

That is your job, not mine.

And, FWIW, 1% would be 660 failures. IIRC, BMW no longer has any original spare long-blocks available for purchase anywhere on earth. That is not positive.

Also, look at the condition of the majority bearings that are removed from the S65. Plenty of those engines were well on their way to a major failure. Should we count those in X?

Cheers,

Makes me wonder about the 50,000 plus M3 with original rod bearings. You would think they should be blowing up all the time based on the pictures posted of removed bearings since 90% of the sets show premature wear. But that does not yet seem to be happening even though all these cars are now 6-11 years old and the miles are accumulating.

I changed mine preventatively and think doing so is a good idea, but I can understand the logic of those who take the risk. The odds still seem low and people are free to self insure against the risk.

Scharbag wrote

That is your job, not mine.

And, FWIW, 1% would be 660 failures. IIRC, BMW no longer has any original spare long-blocks available for purchase anywhere on earth. That is not positive.

Also, look at the condition of the majority bearings that are removed from the S65. Plenty of those engines were well on their way to a major failure. Should we count those in X?

Cheers,

If not failed it doesn't count. They pull RB's at 40K miles they say they were going to fail soon and pretty bad wear on them. They say same thing for 60K , 80K , 100K, 120K miles vehicle. People comment on OP's car he just got and right away replace your RB's ASAP. If he wasn't a forum member guess what he would do? Yep leave it alone.. I am not against replacing them don't get me wrong. Even its a %1 or less chance. I have 2 friends who is not a forum member they both have high milage E92's and they don't even know what RB is.They enjoy their car so much and drive pretty hard. I just hate the fact that whoever get an E9X and become a forum member we right away tell them to replace the damn RB's.. Some owners use crazy oils like 0w40 in summer and drive pretty hard some owners brings the RPM about 6-7K when car is cold so these are the stupid mistakes. At the end its owners choice and they can do whatever they wanna do. Ones again I am not against to RB replacement but %90 of forum members will think and say OP's car will have RB failure very soon. If car had 120K miles same thing right? Here is another 50K miles which is another 5-6 years because most owner like to keep them in garage on winter and baby them thats not me. I got an E9X M thats because its NA high revving master piece engine and I am not scared to drive it. No plan for supercharging no plan for RB's or TA (if not failed)..

TrAcK TRaP wrote

If not failed it doesn't count. They pull RB's at 40K miles they say they were going to fail soon and pretty bad wear on them. They say same thing for 60K , 80K , 100K, 120K miles vehicle. People comment on OP's car he just got and right away replace your RB's ASAP. If he wasn't a forum member guess what he would do? Yep leave it alone.. I am not against replacing them don't get me wrong. Even its a %1 or less chance. I have 2 friends who is not a forum member they both have high milage E92's and they don't even know what RB is.They enjoy their car so much and drive pretty hard. I just hate the fact that whoever get an E9X and become a forum member we right away tell them to replace the damn RB's.. Some owners use crazy oils like 0w40 in summer and drive pretty hard some owners brings the RPM about 6-7K when car is cold so these are the stupid mistakes. At the end its owners choice and they can do whatever they wanna do. Ones again I am not against to RB replacement but %90 of forum members will think and say OP's car will have RB failure very soon. If car had 120K miles same thing right? Here is another 50K miles which is another 5-6 years because most owner like to keep them in garage on winter and baby them thats not me. I got an E9X M thats because its NA high revving master piece engine and I am not scared to drive it. No plan for supercharging no plan for RB's or TA (if not failed)..

I would agree with you but there are a couple items that cause me to lean towards the side of caution.

1) The data presented on this Wiki shows that there is a very real risk of having a bearing tolerance that will cause failure.

2) The flow data supplied by BE during testing clearly shows (does not prove) that bearings with proper clearance have much better flow at high RPM. Better flow equals better cooling and also ensures the hydrodynamic bearing is operating properly. This post nails the fundamental point.

3) The evidence posted on this forum shows that most bearing pulled from S65 engines are in poor condition for their mileage (mine were actually in very good shape (attached) for an S65 at 19K Miles but they still showed the beginnings of wear which is bad for such a young engine).

4) The cost of replacing an S65 is, at minimum, an order of magnitude more than the parts required to change the bearings with BE hardware and shells. Even including reasonable labor, an engine swap is still significantly more expensive than changing the bearings. Also, if you have to pay to have your bearings changed, then you will probably have to pay to have your engine swapped. (I have the tools to swap bearings - I do not have the tools, knowledge or shop space to swap an S65).

As for the comparison to throttle actuators and bearings: TAs do not have a cost effective preventative maintenance activity. Therefore, they are a run to fail then replace asset. Rod bearings do have a cost effective preventative maintenance activity. Unfortunately, oil analysis has not shown to be reliable in properly identifying when to change the bearings while guaranteeing zero failure risk. In that case, sooner is better than later, and certainly better than after-boom.

Every person on this forum has access to a lot of data. Every member can also make their own choices based on the data. Clevite, King, ACL and others all have design guides that show recommended clearance specifications. These can be compared against the data provided as well as the BMW specified tolerances.

OP - sorry for the thread jack. I hope your swap goes well and that you have many happy years with your new car.

Enjoy your M.

Cheers,

Scharbag wrote

I would agree with you but there are a couple items that cause me to lean towards the side of caution.

1) The data presented on this Wiki shows that there is a very real risk of having a bearing tolerance that will cause failure.

2) The flow data supplied by BE during testing clearly shows (does not prove) that bearings with proper clearance have much better flow at high RPM. Better flow equals better cooling and also ensures the hydrodynamic bearing is operating properly. This post nails the fundamental point.

3) The evidence posted on this forum shows that most bearing pulled from S65 engines are in poor condition for their mileage (mine were actually in very good shape (attached) for an S65 at 19K Miles but they still showed the beginnings of wear which is bad for such a young engine).

4) The cost of replacing an S65 is, at minimum, an order of magnitude more than the parts required to change the bearings with BE hardware and shells. Even including reasonable labor, an engine swap is still significantly more expensive than changing the bearings. Also, if you have to pay to have your bearings changed, then you will probably have to pay to have your engine swapped. (I have the tools to swap bearings - I do not have the tools, knowledge or shop space to swap an S65).

As for the comparison to throttle actuators and bearings: TAs do not have a cost effective preventative maintenance activity. Therefore, they are a run to fail then replace asset. Rod bearings do have a cost effective preventative maintenance activity. Unfortunately, oil analysis has not shown to be reliable in properly identifying when to change the bearings while guaranteeing zero failure risk. In that case, sooner is better than later, and certainly better than after-boom.

Every person on this forum has access to a lot of data. Every member can also make their own choices based on the data. Clevite, King, ACL and others all have design guides that show recommended clearance specifications. These can be compared against the data provided as well as the BMW specified tolerances.

Enjoy your M.

Cheers,

Maybe you are right maybe BMW engineer was stupid and didn't see the high risk all these years and no recall on RB's. Other wise they would've fix it at least on 2012 or 2013 years what a shame..

TrAcK TRaP wrote

Maybe you are right maybe BMW engineer was stupid and didn't see the high risk all these years and no recall on RB's. Other wise they would've fix it at least on 2012 or 2013 years what a shame..

Words escape me.