Rear Spherical Bearings Conversion on Stock Arms

LS3Series wrote

Does anyone have any concern with the Spherical not being seated in the center of the arm? I know I’m probably overthinking it but I know my car will hit 1.5+ lateral G’s pretty easily.... I wonder about the stress and how it hits the arm vs the stock bushing that may distribute the load more evenly since it’s housing goes all the way through?

Just a thought, curious if any bad stories out there or input?

Thanks!

I assume you're referring to the wishbone/guide rod where the tapered washer is used? I had the same concerns as well initially. Using the tapered washer introduces a shear force on the bolt at the washer-bearing interface. I've had one trackday so far and no issues. Also VTL who pioneered this mod has torture tested his 135i on road rallies and no issues. So I figure it should be fine.

Redd wrote

I assume you're referring to the wishbone/guide rod where the tapered washer is used? I had the same concerns as well initially. Using the tapered washer introduces a shear force on the bolt at the washer-bearing interface. I've had one trackday so far and no issues. Also VTL who pioneered this mod has torture tested his 135i on road rallies and no issues. So I figure it should be fine.

Ok thanks, and yes the tapered washer side that is offset in the rod ends... I’d be worried about cracking that aluminum with bias load on one side. But I think for now I will assume I will never be fast enough for that.

Putting mine in this week, track day on the 17th!

Ok, new post...... the offset install on the Meyle bushing... I found it slightly different than 3mm to retain oem geometry (on M3 arms)

It does seem a tad different than the lemforder by the pictures too.. I’m measuring the existing bushing in the arm to the tapered lip and I get approx .560inch on average, when I Installed meyle at 3mm offset and measured with stacked washer, I got .530inch so for me, the best installed offset was 2.2mm or .09 inches.

Of course now that I typed this I think how it doesn’t matter a ton and is potentially a waste of your time for reading it. But no data is bad data they say!

Good info!

Opted for centering here because being off center bothered me. I'll report back if I experience issues.

LS3Series wrote

Ok, new post...... the offset install on the Meyle bushing... I found it slightly different than 3mm to retain oem geometry (on M3 arms)

It does seem a tad different than the lemforder by the pictures too.. I’m measuring the existing bushing in the arm to the tapered lip and I get approx .560inch on average, when I Installed meyle at 3mm offset and measured with stacked washer, I got .530inch so for me, the best installed offset was 2.2mm or .09 inches.

Of course now that I typed this I think how it doesn’t matter a ton and is potentially a waste of your time for reading it. But no data is bad data they say!

M43S7RO wrote

Opted for centering here because being off center bothered me. I'll report back if I experience issues.

I appreciate you blazing the trail on centering them. It might need a GoPro down there on some Full Send runs. The 2.2mm offset is fairly minor once I had it in but no question center would be better. The concern I had was given variable alignments etc... will the centered effect the range of motion for the spherical and potentially cause a binding effect / negative impact to spring rate/alignment or both. Very curious to see what you find, I will also report back as my car sits on 315 Hoosiers and should put some decent stress on the offset install.

how is everyone pressing these bearings in? I had a hell of a time at first! I had some all-thread and crap from when I did my differential bushings and I ended up breaking all that stuff. The old bushings needed heat from a hand torch... the rubber separated from the housing and I could then pry the metal sleeve out of the bore. Not too bad...

Pressing back in sucked. I ended up using a 1 - 1/4" socket which was the perfect diameter to fit over the boot of the bearing but had an outer diameter that was small enough to press through the subframe. Cost was $8.99. I also rented the bushing kit from advanced auto but that's free. I used the large clamp and some of the sleeves from the kit combined with the 1 -1/4" socket to press in/out. Subframe needed to be sanded down. The sphericals seemed too tight otherwise and would not press in at all. I also had to take off the calipers and rotors to get the to spindle side trailing arm bearing. All-in-all it took a lot more effort and time than I was expecting!

bbnks2 wrote

how is everyone pressing these bearings in? I had a hell of a time at first! I had some all-thread and crap from when I did my differential bushings and I ended up breaking all that stuff. The old bushings needed heat from a hand torch... the rubber separated from the housing and I could then pry the metal sleeve out of the bore. Not too bad...

Pressing back in sucked. I ended up using a 1 - 1/4" socket which was the perfect diameter to fit over the boot of the bearing but had an outer diameter that was small enough to press through the subframe. Cost was $8.99. I also rented the bushing kit from advanced auto but that's free. I used the large clamp and some of the sleeves from the kit combined with the 1 -1/4" socket to press in/out. Subframe needed to be sanded down. The sphericals seemed too tight otherwise and would not press in at all. I also had to take off the calipers and rotors to get the to spindle side trailing arm bearing. All-in-all it took a lot more effort and time than I was expecting!

I bought the bav auto tool listed earlier in the thread, one side of the threaded rod broke after the first bushing but I could still work with it. The tool flared the housing out a bit on two of the bushings when trying to remove and I had to remove the entire arm to use a c-clamp rental tool from autozone to get it out with a impact gun. In all, didn't go as smoothly as I hoped but got through it. Overall I'd say the tool is valuable but the metal rod is cheap. Also, I'm in AZ so no corrosion to deal with.

Worst for me is I replaced the toe arms as well and cross-threaded the hub side bolt as I couldn't get it to go in quite straight again and ended up having to replace the entire hub after the hole was destroyed.

M43S7RO wrote

I bought the bav auto tool listed earlier in the thread, one side of the threaded rod broke after the first bushing but I could still work with it. The tool flared the housing out a bit on two of the bushings when trying to remove and I had to remove the entire arm to use a c-clamp rental tool from autozone to get it out with a impact gun. In all, didn't go as smoothly as I hoped but got through it. Overall I'd say the tool is valuable but the metal rod is cheap. Also, I'm in AZ so no corrosion to deal with.

Worst for me is I replaced the toe arms as well and cross-threaded the hub side bolt as I couldn't get it to go in quite straight again and ended up having to replace the entire hub after the hole was destroyed.

Yeah the advance auto toolkit had a giant c-clamp style clamp in it with a pretty large bolt. Way bigger than the one I had on hand anyway and I was able to crank the crap out of it with a long 1/2" breaker bar. Anything smaller than M16 or so I think will break. I broke M12 all-thread pretty easily. Just too much force...

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/powerbuilt-tools-kit-46-ball-joint-u-joint-service-set-23-piece-648617/9150043-P?searchTerm=9150006%20OR%209150020%20OR%209150043%20OR%209150054%20OR%2010002068%20OR%2010002076%20OR%2010002083%20OR%209150007%20OR%209150042

The socket actually worked fantastically combined with the clamp. I was just surprised how tough they were to get out. You definitely need to Dremel clean the bore of the subframe as well to get the new bearings in. Even then they still took 200+ ftlbs of torque to press in.

Almost done though. Subframe will go back up into the car this week! I have a wavetrac on order as well that should be shipping soon. Maybe I'll wait to get that before I put the subframe back in.

I see that FCP Euro released their own spherical/monoball kit for the rear trailing arm bushings.

Info video: https://fb.watch/55IskLXJhq/

In the video, it says they took Lemforder bushings and had the outside machined down on a late. Anyone have any idea why they did this versus just sticking the bushings in like described in post #1 of this thread?

wootloops wrote

I see that FCP Euro released their own spherical/monoball kit for the rear trailing arm bushings.

Info video: https://fb.watch/55IskLXJhq/

In the video, it says they took Lemforder bushings and had the outside machined down on a late. Anyone have any idea why they did this versus just sticking the bushings in like described in post #1 of this thread?

I think it's just marketing. There's no real world advantage to what they are doing. Maybe they ran into some tolerance issues installing the Lemforders and had to machine them down a little. The Meyles do the same thing and don't need any machine work and are half the price.

Jamie250 from the M3cutters UK forum pointed me to these off-the-shelf washers from McGill Motorsport that also work for this conversion. Apparently they have done the spherical conversion using this washer with no problems. Best part is that they are cheap too!

M12 Rod End Misalignment Spacers 12mm (Pack of 4)

Comparing to custom tapered washers:

Is this front control arm already a bearing or it has a bushing that could also be replaced?

P1zzaboy wrote

Is this front control arm already a bearing or it has a bushing that could also be replaced?

Front lower control arm has bearings on both ends, no rubber bushing. The only front arm with a rubber bushing is the front tension arm (the curvy one). Front monoball kit replaces that rubber bushing.

Redd wrote

P1zzaboy wrote

Is this front control arm already a bearing or it has a bushing that could also be replaced?

Front lower control arm has bearings on both ends, no rubber bushing. The only front arm with a rubber bushing is the front tension arm (the curvy one). Front monoball kit replaces that rubber bushing.

Thanks for the confirmation!

What is the model nber of the ball joint in the BimmerWorld Rear Camber Arm Bearing Kit?

Living in Europe i would prefer to buy the spherical joint and build the adapter Bushing needed...

For the front curvy harm is there any ball joint kit?

marconi118 wrote

What is the model nber of the ball joint in the BimmerWorld Rear Camber Arm Bearing Kit?

Living in Europe i would prefer to buy the spherical joint and build the adapter Bushing needed...

For the front curvy harm is there any ball joint kit?

Don't know what brand/model is the ball joint in the BW camber arm bearing kit, but the dimensions are below:

- Inner diameter: 17.5 mm
- Outer diameter: 47.2 mm
- Height: 55 mm

The front tension arm (curvy arm) has monoball kits from German Auto Solutions and Bimmerworld.

Thanks for pointing me to your thread @Redd I will definitely be looking into this!

Does the Bav auto tool kit also has adapters for the bimmerworld camber arm bearing kit, since it's bigger than the other bearings?

Finally starting to dig into this on my own car. I picked up some spare arms to monkey around with so I don't ruin brand new OEs. Two things I've found so far....

Go replace the standard rod that comes with these tool kits with something higher grade from your hardware store....go with the most coarse thread pitch possible. I have the Schwaben tool and stripped the rod on the 2nd try using it. New Grade 8 bolt has been flawless so far.

Make sure you actually use the tool correctly....I was trying to pull the bushings back into the arms incorrectly and was getting very frustrated...it's funny how well things work when you use them the right way

I have some Lemforder bushings I ordered back when this thread was pretty new. They've nearly doubled in price now from the eBay link. I also grabbed some Meyle from FCP as they are still relatively cheap. Initial impression is that the Lemforder is the nicer option but there isn't anything about the Meyle that makes me feel like it's going to be complete junk.

I intend to do the arms and trailing arm bushings on both ends. I'll use Lemforder with the upper arms and Meyle on the trailing arm.



Also noted from the fe1rx thread....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicteal_M3 View Post
Can anybody confirm that Lemforder 3067901 is the same as Lemforder 33326792553? They look the same but I'm unsure about the dimensions.
3067901 has an OD of 45.2 mm based on the attached image (although I believe it is actually 45.15 mm, to split hairs ...). It can be used to replace the rubber trailing arm bushings.
33326792553 has an OD of 47.3 mm. It is the standard outboard camber arm bearing that is pressed into the bearing carrier.

I'm very tempted to pick up some of these 47.3mm OD bushings.....it should be fairly simple to shave down the outer race on a lathe to make them the proper size and that could be a cheaper Lemforder choice more readily available.

I've also spoken with someone else that used Delphi bushings from Rockauto which are similar in price to the Meyle. I'm tempted to grab one of these as well so I can compare them all.

https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=12306993&jsn=1519

//steve\\ wrote

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicteal_M3 View Post
Can anybody confirm that Lemforder 3067901 is the same as Lemforder 33326792553? They look the same but I'm unsure about the dimensions.
3067901 has an OD of 45.2 mm based on the attached image (although I believe it is actually 45.15 mm, to split hairs ...). It can be used to replace the rubber trailing arm bushings.
33326792553 has an OD of 47.3 mm. It is the standard outboard camber arm bearing that is pressed into the bearing carrier.

I'm very tempted to pick up some of these 47.3mm OD bushings.....it should be fairly simple to shave down the outer race on a lathe to make them the proper size and that could be a cheaper Lemforder choice more readily available.

That's a bit strange. The Lemforder ball joints I bought for the camber outboard position were 3642601009. They fit right in. Dimensions are:

- Inner diameter: 14 mm
- Outer diameter: 47.2 mm
- Height: 55 mm

So the ID and height are also very different from the ball joints used for trailing arm/upper arms. Below is a size comparison between the Lemforder camber arm outboard ball joint (left side) vs the Meyle trailing arm ball joint (right side).

Redd wrote

That's a bit strange. The Lemforder ball joints I bought for the camber outboard position were 3642601009. They fit right in. Dimensions are:

- Inner diameter: 14 mm
- Outer diameter: 47.2 mm
- Height: 55 mm

So the ID and height are also very different from the ball joints used for trailing arm/upper arms. Below is a size comparison between the Lemforder camber arm outboard ball joint (left side) vs the Meyle trailing arm ball joint (right side).

I don't think the person was asking to be able to use it for outboard camber but as an alternative to the trailing arm bushing. For the two below the only thing different seemed to be the overall diameter which was ~2mm difference. The ID for bolt and the height/width was the same too. The first part number is hard to find from Lemforder short of eBay and it's pricey (now $60 a piece) vs the second part number which you can buy from FCP for about half the cost.

Lemforder 3067901 vs Lemforder 33326792553

Now if you aren't dead set on Lemforder the Meyle is the easy go-to choice especially because you can still get them from FCP so if they do wear out you've got free replacements.