Track forum general chit chat.

kyippee wrote

Sweet - then give him some time to upload

Yeah, he was telling me he had 16k photos to work with on Monday.

great to finally meet OG Shark at ECR this last weekend. love the m2 and the huge double decker rig. hope to see you in NTX more often!

Is this normal after only two track days?

Feels like the other side is also binding a little bit. Anyone experience that with ST60s?

StogyBear wrote

Is this normal after only two track days?

Feels like the other side is also binding a little bit. Anyone experience that with ST60s?

Hairline cracks are fine as long as they aren't at the edge and cannot be caught by your fingernail. Make sure to remove your dust shield if you didn't. I didn't do that and killed my ST60 rotors within 5 events.

derbo wrote

Hairline cracks are fine as long as they aren't at the edge and cannot be caught by your fingernail. Make sure to remove your dust shield if you didn't. I didn't do that and killed my ST60 rotors within 5 events.

Thanks for sharing that. Interesting to hear you removed your dust shield. I read that it protects suspension components? Did you remove it to disperse heat?

StogyBear wrote

Thanks for sharing that. Interesting to hear you removed your dust shield. I read that it protects suspension components? Did you remove it to disperse heat?

My first outing, the Stoptech logo browned, and after 5 events the inner face was cracked at the edges.



I was led to believe the dust shield reduced airflow to the center of the rotors causing the rotors to retain too much heat.

At least that's what I think happened. I think the suspension components will be fine but if you are concerned, you can build small shields for the ball joints to prevent them from the radial heat.




I removed the dust shield now but I also went to AP Racing calipers for knockback issues.

StogyBear wrote

Is this normal after only two track days?

Feels like the other side is also binding a little bit. Anyone experience that with ST60s?

Which pads are you on? That seems like a bit too much, but some tracks are really hard to brakes than others.

After 25 track days My stop tech rotors look like they have 15 more

So as a few of you know who follow me on social media, I had a big power steering failure leading into the kink at barber (which is a high commit fast left to right-hander where a lot of wrecks happen). Looking back at some video data and through my own memories, I could feel the steering not wanting to return to center a few turns before, it must've cooled off on the big front straight, but leading into the kink after the hairpin and chicane, I had nothing. I'm happy to report nothing catastrophic happened on track, I've turned enough laps in this car and at Barber to know something was up. I wrestled the gorilla for 1/2 a lap back to the paddock. Losing PS in the middle of a flyer is not that fun, however!

Anyhow, the PS never returned all day, when I got back to the paddock, the fluid was cooked, and all over the place. It was a brand new reservoir, new fluid and I run the little motorcycle overflow tank like many of us do. The fluid was smoking hot and smelled awful upon inspection. I replaced the fluid trackside and tried to bleed the system, but the pump just never wanted to pump, I suspect the pump was dead. The OEM PS system has 167k miles on it, so I will blame that on the failure, don't think this was a freak accident. In the 10 track events and 5k miles I have put on this car since I acquired it in April 2020, PS has been rock solid other than the infamous spewing of fluid.

I tore the system down upon returning to the shop and nothing noteworthy was going on in the pump when I tore it down individually, but I don't know these pumps well enough visually to see if there's any problem. I was planning to replace the entire system due to the amount of metal sludge I found in my reservoir. Ordered a new pump, lines, cooler, and rack. Probably best to have a spare rack at my mileage anyways.

The car was great for the three sessions on street tires, really impressed with my aero and new 3.62 Drexler diff. I only got two "hot laps" on slicks before the PS died, so never hit a PB for the weekend, but did come within 1-2 tenths of my fast slick times from last year on a set of old stock RE71's with the new setup, so that was cool. Bummer that it went out when it did!

Onto the solution - electro-hydraulic kits. After sharing my experience with Mr. DRLane he turned me on to electro-hydraulic (JPmarketing) setup for our platform, which looks like it is very simple and looks to be reliable from some of the feedback I've gathered. I also found these two threads which nudged me into more research.

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1308104
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1274968

It's kinda-sorta available through Motorsport24 and JPmarketing but neither one of them have brackets made which is half the battle. I've also had some lengthy with Jason from @OGShark as he is running the MS24 kit. OG has a kit in the workings as well which sounds like it will be a very good and similar solution to the other offerings.

Ultimately I needed a solution like yesterday as I have an event December 17-18 at Sebring, rather than installing all this OEM stuff back in and working twice, I've acquired most of my own parts (hoses, fittings) and partnered with Leddy Motorsports to be a placement tester for their bracket. The pump I've personally is sourced is from Poland/Germany (actually out for delivery today), which is the same pump both JPmarketing and MS24 use - single-speed on or off MB pump. I'll provide some feedback over the next few weeks when I get it on track, but i'm assuming that i'll have a similar experience for those who have. Many people will worry this will mess with the "steering feel" which our rack is a bit different because it uses an EVO, which sends back unneeded fluid to the pump to keep high speed feel and stability the same regardless of how much fluid is thrown at it. So steering feel should be totally unaffected by changing the pump, as we are only changing the way fluid gets delivered to the rack. Through some info from MS24 and OGshark, it looks like the cooler can be removed as well since the fluid will be running much cooler not spinning at 8450 rpm. I will be personally be doing some temp testing on the fluid with an inline temp sensor to my aim, and some thermal infrared testing back in the paddock of the fluid before and right off a hot lap.

Motorsport24 kit is sourced from Europe at a pretty high price (around $2100 with no bracket), but OG's kit and the other vendor I am working with (Leddy motorsports) should be a much more cost-effective option. I want to make sure I give credit where credit is due as OG already has an alternative kit in the making, and we've spoken in length about the cooler being removed and pump placement. The best part about it is the whole left side serpentine gets removed, which is awesome from both a space aspect and gets the engine revving a bit quicker. The caveat is AC removal. There may be a workaround to keep the ac via a shorter belt, but space-wise the pump is pretty tall, so it takes up some real estate where the ac compressor currently sits. This is the ultimate goal. I will keep everyone updated via my build thread, I'm hoping it takes some load off the motor, makes the PS system more reliable and quits spewing PS fluid all over the place.

i'd probably still run a cooler. anytime you're making fluid do work, its going to create heat.

roastbeef wrote

i'd probably still run a cooler. anytime you're making fluid do work, its going to create heat.

Hm, we'll see. MS24 runs no coolers on their race cars with this setup, same with OG Shark, Warp10, Jpmarketing. There is a lot less fluid working with this setup, from what I've gathered.

I could very well be wrong. I'd be curious what temps you'd hit without it.

roastbeef wrote

I could very well be wrong. I'd be curious what temps you'd hit without it.

I'll be sure to report back!

Move Over very cool, always love new kit for our cars and even better when it's more cost effective than other options and tested on track by one of our own! Awesome on the diff too. I was going to mention that I had a PS pump failure, replaced under warranty, turned into a total PS system failure, rack and pump replaced under warranty, installed do88 cooler then and realized still an incredible amount of metal particles in my fluid, dealer flushed 3 times with fresh fluid, still particles, I flushed twice myself, still particles. Just flushing as part of my normal maintenance now. I am running the Bimmerworld reservoir which does not have a filter, OE does. I guess my point here is that I think the rack inherently produces metal particles as part of it's design and is probably why the OE reservoir included a filter. Long winded way of saying it may not be a bad idea to incorporate a filter into your design.

Move Over wrote

This kit should be significantly cheaper than the MS24 kit and once we have ordered the pumps it should be an off the shelf option for anyone looking for a reliable PS system on track. Best part about it is the whole left side serpentine gets removed, which is awesome from both a space aspect and gets the engine revving a bit quicker. Caveat is AC removal. We are working on a workaround to keep the ac via a shorter belt, but space wise the pump is pretty tall, so it may take up some real estate where the ac compressor currently sits. Stay tuned for more, but this is the ultimate goal:

Would love to know more about this kit, I was thinking about ditching my AC and would do this swap at the same time.

Ximian wrote

StogyBear wrote

Is this normal after only two track days?

Feels like the other side is also binding a little bit. Anyone experience that with ST60s?

Which pads are you on? That seems like a bit too much, but some tracks are really hard to brakes than others.

PFC08.

The two track days I've done were at Laguna seca which is really tough on brakes and admittedly I was driving like I stole it. I figured these brakes would handle it but apparently not.

Btw agreed about knock back. Turn 10 is terrifying with these brakes. You get nothing until about 70% of the pedal is pressed.

The bracket is really the solution though. The rest of the components including the pump can be ordered very economically. So I greatly appreciate a solution that's driven by accessibility vs profit.

To be fair to the inspiration, this isn't exactly novel. Jakob has a kit, M24, and I'm sure others as well.

Thanks Alex for helping with testing, sourcing, and the bracket design! I'm excited to get this installed and ditch some superfluous weight off the front end.

StripclubDJ wrote

After 25 track days My stop tech rotors look like they have 15 more

Those look well used but still within limits. My OEM Brembo discs, DBAs, and GiroDiscs all end up looking like that over time.

Biggest thing that people forget to do is to look at the inner rotor face. The outer face might be fine but I have had to replace rotors because the inside had developed a big crack due to different cooling.

DRLane wrote

The bracket is really the solution though. The rest of the components including the pump can be ordered very economically. So I greatly appreciate a solution that's driven by accessibility vs profit.

To be fair to the inspiration, this isn't exactly novel. Jakob has a kit, M24, and I'm sure others as well.

Thanks Alex for helping with testing, sourcing, and the bracket design! I'm excited to get this installed and ditch some superfluous weight off the front end.

Thanks Devin, yes I want to mention that I am not an innovator of this idea, JPmotorsports and MS24 have existing kits (no AC), as well as OG Shark Motorsports has a kit in development for both non AC and AC - I need to edit my post as I do not mean to come off as an innovator of it.

Move Over wrote

DRLane wrote

I'm absolutely in for a kit, 💯! The bracket is really the solution though. The rest of the components including the pump can be ordered very economically. So I greatly appreciate a solution that's driven by accessibility vs profit.

To be fair to the inspiration, this isn't exactly novel. Jakob has a kit, M24, and I'm sure others as well.

Thanks Alex for helping with testing, sourcing, and the bracket design! I'm excited to get this installed and ditch some superfluous weight off the front end.

Thanks Devin, yes I want to mention that I am not an innovator of this idea, JPmotorsports and MS24 have existing kits (no AC), as well as OG Shark Motorsports has a kit in development for both non AC and AC - I need to edit my post as I do not mean to come off as an innovator of it.

I would be interested in a kit if this PS system turns out to be a problem to heavily tracked car.

I am not planing on slicks on the front in 2022 but never say never.

I do have the BW Ps reservoir so the information about metal shavings is noted.

StogyBear wrote

PFC08.

The two track days I've done were at Laguna seca which is really tough on brakes and admittedly I was driving like I stole it. I figured these brakes would handle it but apparently not.

Btw agreed about knock back. Turn 10 is terrifying with these brakes. You get nothing until about 70% of the pedal is pressed.

How did you get those to fit without rubbing on the rotor hat? I have PFC 83s in the same shape for the ST60 that don't even make a good door stop.

I liked the PFC 08s on stock brakes, but a more sprint oriented pad would be better. I like the XP20 (fits perfectly) and it's a great value compared to the other vendors.

Also if it's knock back, there are anti-knock back springs or pumping the brake slightly before a braking zone.

This PS failure talk makes me wonder… How many people are actually flushing their PS fluid every season? And I don’t mean sucking out the reservoir and refilling, because that does almost nothing.