Blackstone report... bearings issue?

Hi all,

I ran a Blackstone report on my last oil change, and they came back with some worrying information, higher than average Copper and Lead values.. Car us just under 60k miles now. Should I be worried and plan for bearing swap?

The oil I sent them had about 3 hours of track time and maybe 4000 miles all up (most likely under)...

I'm very outspoken about being against Blackstone reports. They do not provide any useful information.

Rod bearing failure is a 'catastrophic failure' and generally impossible to predict.

Just get them replaced ASAP, be sure to use ARP bolts. I don't think the new ones are necessary.

chocstraw wrote

I'm very outspoken about being against Blackstone reports. They do not provide any useful information.

Rod bearing failure is a 'catastrophic failure' and generally impossible to predict.

Just get them replaced ASAP, be sure to use ARP bolts. I don't think the new ones are necessary.

i've always thought of them as having a high false negative but low false positive rate. do you not think that's the case?

bearings usually last the life of an engine and in these they don't.

they're not a wear item, which is what an oil report tells in this instance.

all it takes is a fraction of a second of oil starvation for it to melt to the crank journal.

Oil reports are useful for other applications though.

i get that, but that's not really answering my question. my point is that a good report doesn't clear the engine (in line with what you're saying), but does a "bad" report not mean that there's likely a bearing issue going on? trying to think of what other sources of lead and copper would be present in the oil?

Positive !

I would be very worried with such a Blackstone report .


But with the S65/S85 bearings we never know ...

I would pull the filter and see if you can see any particles, though personally I would be highly concerned. Any chance you used leaded fuel?

just do the damn bearings. That's the answer. No more speculating. Tow it if you must.

Not uploading my credentials but I'm a mechanic. I've rebuilt recip and turbine powerplants.

edit: leaded fuel is a legitimate question if you used 110 octane $10/gal track fuel

Hi

Thanks for the feedback... I did look at the filter no particles. I never ran more than 4k on oil and used oem BMW. Now I have Motul 10w-60 in it... Never ever ran but 93 octane unleaded... since I got it (at 48k miles )...

I have not tracked it since last year and its my wife's daily driver... (3 miles back and forth doh...)

TheMechanic wrote

Hi

Thanks for the feedback... I did look at the filter no particles. I never ran more than 4k on oil and used oem BMW. Now I have Motul 10w-60 in it... Never ever ran but 93 octane unleaded... since I got it (at 48k miles )...

I have not tracked it since last year and its my wife's daily driver... (3 miles back and forth doh...)

3 miles is bad for a car, probably not long enough to burn off water in the oil and get everything hot enough. Drive it harder every so often.

Replace those RBs tho.

I was told that it's wrong to make any decisions on a single report. Every engine is different and they have different levels of everything. So the idea is to start doing an oil analysis as soon as you get the car and compare reports with the previous ones. That way you can see what changes and can react. Of course it doesn't help if you are on a possible verge of the rod bearings failure. 60-75k that's when they recommend to replace them. Especially if you track the car.

Change the bearings before it's too late. I changed mine at your mileage and they came out bad. Crank was safe.

I think I will "follow up" like they said with another report in 1000 miles, and then stop driving it until I get the result... IF wear slows down after the recent Motul oil change and no track time (just wife driving her and occasional redline on freeway by me hehe) I might postpone bearing change. If lead and copper still high, I'll take her in..
Does this sound like a good plan? Thanks!

This car is something I dreamed for many years when I could not afford one... It holds a special place in my heart. I owned a 99 M3, 2002 M3, 2008 M5.. and this. This seems to stick more for some reason with us, my wife loves it also I think they aged really well

I also owned a couple of 335i's , still have a 335xi with new turbos (did it myself, and still have the scars to show) ... but NOTHING compares to 8000 rpm + V8 NA engines

bad plan but you don't wanna listen. just change the bearings.

^ this. these engines have a reputation (deserved or otherwise). you're getting as close as you're gonna get to a "maybe something's happening."

TheMechanic wrote

I think I will "follow up" like they said with another report in 1000 miles, and then stop driving it until I get the result... IF wear slows down after the recent Motul oil change and no track time (just wife driving her and occasional redline on freeway by me hehe) I might postpone bearing change. If lead and copper still high, I'll take her in..
Does this sound like a good plan? Thanks!

Buy some lottery tickets as a hedge in case your plan does not end up being good.

TheMechanic wrote

Hi all, I ran a Blackstone report on my last oil change, and they came back with some worrying information, higher than average Copper and Lead values.. Car us just under 60k miles now. Should I be worried and plan for bearing swap? The oil I sent them had about 3 hours of track time and maybe 4000 miles all up (most likely under)...

You should be worried and plan for a bearing swap. Change the bearings for $2.5K including labor or buy a new engine for $25K. Here are some threads below with all sorts of information and examples on this topic. BE Bearings with ARP bolts are the replacement gold standard for the S65 motor.
.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1253084
.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=786615
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https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1873514
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https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1202365
.

So how complex and sophisticated is a rod bearing swap in the S65 engine?

I’m the original owner of a 2011 E90. 68,000 uneventful miles thus far. Only significant engine work has been replacement of the throttle actuators in 2016.

I no longer use the local BMW dealership for service. I have an independent mechanic who’s been good and reliable, but when I brought up the RB issue, I sensed a little bit of hesitation when I asked how comfortable he’d be performing the elective swap. He replaced the throttle actuators and has a lot of experience in the field so maybe I’m reading into it…

If I moved ahead with replacement, just curious how much “homework“ I need to do before selecting a mechanic for this specific job. I am not a DIYer, so apologies if this comes across as naïve. I live in central Illinois.

There is a good DIY you can search for to understand what is involved. Patience and care and attention to detail are critical. A first timer on this car will take longer than someone who has done 2 or more. I did them myself in 2014.

Zeus69 wrote

So how complex and sophisticated is a rod bearing swap in the S65 engine?

I’m the original owner of a 2011 E90. 68,000 uneventful miles thus far. Only significant engine work has been replacement of the throttle actuators in 2016.

I no longer use the local BMW dealership for service. I have an independent mechanic who’s been good and reliable, but when I brought up the RB issue, I sensed a little bit of hesitation when I asked how comfortable he’d be performing the elective swap. He replaced the throttle actuators and has a lot of experience in the field so maybe I’m reading into it…

If I moved ahead with replacement, just curious how much “homework“ I need to do before selecting a mechanic for this specific job. I am not a DIYer, so apologies if this comes across as naïve. I live in central Illinois.

there's a shop up in Elgin that did mine and has done a ton of them -- Performance Eurowerks.

Zeus69 wrote

So how complex and sophisticated is a rod bearing swap in the S65 engine?

I’m the original owner of a 2011 E90. 68,000 uneventful miles thus far. Only significant engine work has been replacement of the throttle actuators in 2016.

I no longer use the local BMW dealership for service. I have an independent mechanic who’s been good and reliable, but when I brought up the RB issue, I sensed a little bit of hesitation when I asked how comfortable he’d be performing the elective swap. He replaced the throttle actuators and has a lot of experience in the field so maybe I’m reading into it…

If I moved ahead with replacement, just curious how much “homework“ I need to do before selecting a mechanic for this specific job. I am not a DIYer, so apologies if this comes across as naïve. I live in central Illinois.

You definitely want to use a shop that expresses confidence in completing the work and preferably has a reputation for same. My two local shops and a dealership turned me away before I found a couple shops a little further out that are the regional go-to’s for rod bearings. You also want to clarify sourcing of the parts - who will source the parts - you or them.