Official S65 Rod Bearing Condition Example Thread

Nov 2020, 57,597 miles, I’m the original owner. Car is a 2013 zcp dct. No drive train mods at all. Stock software. Driven harder in the early years. One track day. Only have 61,500 on it today so not much to report on reliability. Work done by MRF Engineering in SoCal.

Edward Do you have the old bearings still?

These came off my 2013 e92 with 30k miles. I am the second owner and always warmed up the car to temp before getting on it. I’d say these look pretty bad for the mileage. Thoughts?

Hello guys,

Be hold my old rod bearing the car is a 2012 with 112 000 km or 70 000 miles.

They look pretty good, former owners where obsessed with proper warm-up and oil change every 5000 km - 3000 mls.

rjsiciliano wrote

These came off my 2013 e92 with 30k miles. I am the second owner and always warmed up the car to temp before getting on it. I’d say these look pretty bad for the mileage. Thoughts?

They seem pretty typical for the tin/alu/copper bearings, not great and not terrible (as usual for these, no copper showing but the micro grooves are probably worn out in the middle).

Pretty similar to David WDT's bearings, although they show a bit more wear.

Btw, if either of you guys would like to perform a little experiment on at least 1 of your shells, LMK!

2011 M3 with 51,XXX miles.

Just got blackstone kit back. When should I do the rod bearings? *Keep in mind this oil was sitting for about 8 months at dealer so I had a full service done right after I bought the car*

Motor seems super strong w no issues but wanted everyone’s thoughts.

cvk wrote

2011 M3 with 51,XXX miles.

Just got blackstone kit back. When should I do the rod bearings? *Keep in mind this oil was sitting for about 8 months at dealer so I had a full service done right after I bought the car*

Motor seems super strong w no issues but wanted everyone’s thoughts.

Lead at 14ppm? Curious, I'd expect a 2011 model to have the later tin/alu/copper bearings, but maybe yours was built in 2010 and must have (I think) the lead/copper bearings.
A few things, oil analysis won't find failing rod bearings with 100% certainty, see the link in my signature about that.
That said, personally I'd be worried about a level of 14ppm, despite what they say. Look at the various reports in my aforementioned thread.
IMO you should stop driving it, and get the rod bearings done ASAP.
The OEM lead/copper bearings are more prone to failing than the later tin/alu ones (not saying the latter don't fail though!).

cvk wrote

2011 M3 with 51,XXX miles.

Just got blackstone kit back. When should I do the rod bearings? *Keep in mind this oil was sitting for about 8 months at dealer so I had a full service done right after I bought the car*

Motor seems super strong w no issues but wanted everyone’s thoughts.

Go ahead and do them.

The motor being strong isn't an indicator. Lead is. The only other possible source is main bearings, but excessive wear / failure on those is very rare (though not unheard of).

Anybody know if these new MAHLE S65 Rod bearings provide the extra clearance needed to solve the OEM spec bearing clearance issue (as done by B.E. bearings) or are they just the same spec as OEM for clearance?
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Green-Eggs Do you know if the new MAHLE S85/S65 rod bearings are extra clearance?
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https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2028143

DrFerry wrote

Green-Eggs Do you know if the new MAHLE S85/S65 rod bearings are extra clearance?
.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2028143

Looks like Evolve is claiming Mahle target 55 micron clearance, so slightly under BE correct?

[edit] Only saw your post afterwards .

DrFerry wrote

Green-Eggs Do you know if the new MAHLE S85/S65 rod bearings are extra clearance?
.
https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2028143

Evolve has replied to your question and states they aim for 55 micron (0.055mm) nominal clearance, which is indeed more than the OEMs 0.0381mm, but slightly less than BE's v2 0.681mm.

spammysammich wrote

Looks like Evolve is claiming Mahle target 55 micron clearance, so slightly under BE correct?

Yes, I think you’re correct. Assimilator1 cited B.E. v2 bearings @ 0.0681mm clearance which is more clearance than MAHLE’s bearings cited by Evolve at 0.055mm.

B.E. wiki:
http://wiki.rcollins.org/core/index.php/Engine_Specs_-_S65_Rod_Bearings#Bearing_Clearance_Specifications_2

So it appears the MAHLE bearings fall between the OEM spec clearance and the B.E. Bearing V2 spec. The MAHLE 0.055mm spec is a sort of a "half-way-house".
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They're closer to BEs v1 bearings which had a nominal clearance of 0.0597 mm.
I wonder what the bearing clearance variance is with the Mahl bearings?

And I think I've found the answer :-
Recommended nominal clearance is 55μm (43 to 57μm range)
This is from the 2nd study that Matt posted in the quote further below.

So Mahl's nominal clearance is 0.055mm, with a clearance variance of 0.043mm to 0.057mm, which is odd because the nominal clearance is not in the middle of that. IIRC, all the other bearings I've looked at, the nominal clearance falls in the middle of the clearance variance (which makes sense).
Also, the minimum variance is just a tiny bit more than the OEM nominal clearance.

That said, the graph confuses things, it says actual clearances are from 0.043 to 0.065mm, I don't get it, does anyone else?

Matt@Evolve wrote

We chose not to go too in-depth in the video, and it may be something we dive in to deeper with someone who’s background is within engineering.

If you want some information on the technical aspects of the bearings themselves, your best place to go is the manufacturer themselves - https://vandervell.co.uk/aftermarket/our-technology/

https://marmotorsport.com/wp-content/uploads/Technical-Information-for-Engine-Bearings.pdf

https://marmotorsport.com/wp-content/uploads/Mar-Motorsport-Bearing-Clearance-Study.pdf

https://marmotorsport.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Transfer-of-Premium-Racing-Technology-Laser-Marking.pdf

Attached are mine at 78,856 miles. I bought the car second hand with 77,387 miles. I’m the second owner, and it appears the original owner took good care of the car and had regular services, but never replaced the rod bearings.

Didn’t think anything of it, but heard about the rod bearing issues and took the car in. MRF Engineering in Orange County did the replacement and I can’t vouch for them enough!

Found out my valve covers were leaking, too, so I’m back today having those replaced.

2009 E90 48k miles. Replaced with BE bearings and bolts.

No copper showing? That's a rarity for those earlier shells!

SaMaster14 I don't suppose you want to do a little experiment on 1 or 2 of your old shells do you?

Assimilator1 wrote

No copper showing? That's a rarity for those earlier shells!

SaMaster14 I don't suppose you want to do a little experiment on 1 or 2 of your old shells do you?

What were you thinking? I actually did bring them back with me! haha

SaMaster14 wrote

What were you thinking? I actually did bring them back with me! haha

Ah cool
See this thread for more info, TIA

Does anyone check own oil filter after the oil changing?

I have BE bearings already 60k km with ARP bolts. Last oil changing I tried to disassemble the oil filter and noticed some craps there. Picture attached.

Should I worry?

RomanK wrote

Does anyone check own oil filter after the oil changing?

I have BE bearings already 60k km with ARP bolts. Last oil changing I tried to disassemble the oil filter and noticed some craps there. Picture attached.

Should I worry?

I only began doing that after replacing the engine, having the system been contaminated with old engine debris, so I can't really be a parameter for you.

But yes, my oil filter always shows some debris like those.

jvictormp wrote

I only began doing that after replacing the engine, having the system been contaminated with old engine debris, so I can't really be a parameter for you.

But yes, my oil filter always shows some debris like those.

If you replaced the engine, what the system do you mean? If you have new engine so, all inside new as well, correct?

How long did you see such craps? How many oil changing were?

I don't know what to do) I am afraid to drive. )) But I have BE + ARP.