F1 2024: Dutch GP - Zandvoort (Aug 25)

AmuroRay wrote

Marco said rhey have an update coming, but I hope that ship has sailed.

I'd rather watch Lando collect trophies that don't belong to him and win everything by being mediocre than have to watch whatever the he'll that was for the last 2 years.

That ship sank just like the Titanic ...

As I said : The RB20 has a big design flaw from race 1 at Bahrain.
The RB20 upgrades work like a downgrade , that's why they had to run with the old Bahrain floor at Zandvoort ..
All the RB20 upgrades have been removed from car (!)
Again (As I said)! The RB20 really s@cks .

Lando won Zandvoort with a 22.8 sec. gap and in the last 15 laps he ran in the relax-mode to save his PU .
Hopefully YOU know what that means ...

///M Power-Belgium wrote

That ship sank just like the Titanic ...

As I said : The RB20 has a big design flaw from race 1 at Bahrain.
The RB20 upgrades work like a downgrade , that's why they had to run with the old Bahrain floor at Zandvoort ..
All the RB20 upgrades have been removed from car (!)
Again (As I said)! The RB20 really s@cks .

Lando won Zandvoort with a 22.8 sec. gap and in the last 15 laps he ran in the relax-mode to save his PU .
Hopefully YOU know what that means ...

It means we get to see Lando cosplay as a discount version of Max for the rest of the season.
Love to see it.


https://x.com/JoostNederpelt/status/1827724675759346013
"Helmut Marko is worried: 'Norris now has the speed to catch Max in the championship. We have to find something. There is something in the pipeline, but McLaren is very fast.'"

///M Power-Belgium wrote

Yes . McLaren got a big upgrade package at Zandvoort ..

While the RB20 upgrades are a downgrade and have been removed

I realize the MCL38 is especially well-suited to high-downforce Zandvoort and yea Lando and Max were cruising after about halfway, but 22 seconds... what can you do about that? Plan ahead for 2025, I guess.

Also interesting that the RB20 was only slightly better than the Ferraris today. They looked quite nice in race trim today.

AmuroRay wrote

Never was. The dude lost a 50nsecond advantage and hasn't won since.

Not entirely true. Verstappen is an exceptional driver (as long as he has a decent car that fits his style and regulations that favour his team). He very rarely make forced errors. He more often than not pushes the boundaries. The Max Factor still is a force to be reckoned with. It’s just that the other teams have cracked the formula.

AmuroRay wrote

Grow up and learn to deal with different opinions.

This

fs1977 wrote

I'd liked to point out that these F1 topics are becoming less and less fun to read and contribute to because of some remarks. Not sure if trolling or serious, but either way really annoying.

+1. There are a handful of folk here that add nothing to the conversation, just cheap trolling.

You start to wonder how important Newey is.
How much of a coincidence is it that the RB can't progress and Newey's not working on the car anymore.
Obiously he doesn't design the car by himself, so actual input is difficult to quantify, but race performance is easier to quantify, and the difference is there, coincidence or not...

We'll know in ~1,5 years how good AMR is then

Congratulations to McLearn for their historic turnaround from being the slowest car on the grid at the beginning of last season to winning by over 22 seconds.

AmuroRay wrote

https://x.com/JoostNederpelt/status/1827724675759346013
"Helmut Marko is worried: 'Norris now has the speed to catch Max in the championship. We have to find something. There is something in the pipeline, but McLaren is very fast.'"

The Drivers' Championship is still safe but Constructors' isn't looking good for RB right now. Before Spa, I was sure RB could at least snatch 3-4 wins in the final 11 or so races (Zandvoort and Spa being two of them) and McLaren and Mercedes would split the rest but I'm not sure anymore.

///M Power-Belgium wrote

That ship sank just like the Titanic ...

As I said : The RB20 has a big design flaw from race 1 at Bahrain.
The RB20 upgrades work like a downgrade , that's why they had to run with the old Bahrain floor at Zandvoort ..
All the RB20 upgrades have been removed from car (!)
Again (As I said)! The RB20 really s@cks .

Lando won Zandvoort with a 22.8 sec. gap and in the last 15 laps he ran in the relax-mode to save his PU .
Hopefully YOU know what that means ...

Hope RB's upgrade for Monza..next weekend comes about, even though LAN was ahead here Monza is another kettle of fish.
I'm awaiting Georgio Paolas cut away of the MC car if we ever see it.

GuidoK wrote

You start to wonder how important Newey is.
How much of a coincidence is it that the RB can't progress and Newey's not working on the car anymore.
Obiously he doesn't design the car by himself, so actual input is difficult to quantify, but race performance is easier to quantify, and the difference is there, coincidence or not...

We'll know in ~1,5 years how good AMR is then

In the beginning of this set of ground effect regulations, I bet Newey was instrumental, if only to identify watch-out areas (like porpoising and how the car balance can shift based on speed), but the limitations of this year's RB20 (in which Newey had a hand) were baked in like M Power has been saying...

I actually think it's the cumulative effect of the brain drain RB has experienced in the past 2-3 years. Losing people like Dan Fallows and Rob Marshall, that stuff eventually starts to make an impact, maybe more so than aero testing regulations that supposedly would allow teams to catch up. It's the same thing Mercedes went through over the past several years.

Constructor points:

Going into GB:
RB - 355
Ferrari - 291
McLaren - 268

After today:
RB - 434
McLaren - 404
Ferrari - 370

McLaren has gained 57 points in 4 races, impressive.

CMW33 wrote

The Drivers' Championship is still safe but Constructors' isn't looking good for RB right now. Before Spa, I was sure RB could at least snatch 3-4 wins in the final 11 or so races (Zandvoort and Spa being two of them) and McLaren and Mercedes would split the rest but I'm not sure anymore.

Lando will need a couple Max DNF's to make it spicy. Lando would also have to go on a Max-like win streak for the remainder of 9 races.

AmuroRay wrote

It means we get to see Lando cosplay as a discount version of Max for the rest of the season.
Love to see it.


https://x.com/JoostNederpelt/status/1827724675759346013
"Helmut Marko is worried: 'Norris now has the speed to catch Max in the championship. We have to find something. There is something in the pipeline, but McLaren is very fast.'"

Yes mate . For once you got that right.
Finally we can agree about....Something .

If Red Bull can't improve the RB20 , it will be extremely close in the WDC.
As for the WCC , it looks even more bad for the Red Bull Team because Checo keeps on s@cking.
So , the 2024 WCC is for McLaren..

Yeah . Marco said : There are some upgrades in the Red Bull pipeline but the Million Dollar question is "Will they work as it should be" ?
And that's very doubtful , because they had to remove all the RB20 upgrades.
In other words : The RB20 is back to level 'ZERO .The Red Bull Team are facing too much of a disadvantage from the 2024 design flaw...

Respect for the McLaren MCL38 car from my side , the car was already extremely fast and with the new McLaren Zandvoort upgrades the car runs even faster..
No one can touch the McLaren QF speed , balance , and race pace at every track (!)
Currently the McLaren MCL38 is unbeatable...

CMW33 wrote

I realize the MCL38 is especially well-suited to high-downforce Zandvoort and yea Lando and Max were cruising after about halfway, but 22 seconds... what can you do about that? Plan ahead for 2025, I guess.

Also interesting that the RB20 was only slightly better than the Ferraris today. They looked quite nice in race trim today.

Yeah . Ferrari and both Ferrari drivers ran a great race today .

Charlie moved up from P6 to P3
Sainz moved up from P11 to P5

Ferrari has 2 great drivers . Red Bull has one great driver.
Red Bull will lose the WCC because Checo always s@cks .
It's just a matter of a few races...

Let's keep in mind : Checo crashed a $4.5Million hole in the Red Bull budget cap.
For $4.5Million you can get a lot of RB20 upgrades , but they're gone now..

GuidoK wrote

And Lando wins!
Clearly the fastest today. A very good race except for the start. He wins with the largest marge of the season.

For the rest a boring race. The most excitement was LEC keeping PIA at bay (basically...nothing happened), and the strategic flaw of MERC pitting RUS late in the race to do.......I don't know. He lost is place to PER, where I believe he could've defended against PER.
Ferrari was definately stronger than expected.

It is what it is. But we know what it is . As you can see my friend ...

Max needs to call for a lot more than "calm"...LOL

Cheers to Zak Brown! Fantastic leadership and turnaround! Keep it up! 🏁🏁🏁🏁

Jbrown7403 wrote

Cheers to Zak Brown! Fantastic leadership and turnaround! Keep it up! 🏁🏁🏁🏁

Yep, I didn't think he had it in him. Certainly didn't see this coming.

AmuroRay wrote

Congratulations Charles. He legitimately drove a tractor to the podium over 4 other faster cars! The RB (Perez) the McLaren (Piastri) and both Mercedes (Hamilton and Russell)

I think McLaren just settled for 4th place points rather than attempt a risky pass at the end of the race and no points. PIA didn't seem to be pushing all that hard.

M3WC wrote

Constructor points:

Going into GB:
RB - 355
Ferrari - 291
McLaren - 268

After today:
RB - 434
McLaren - 404
Ferrari - 370

McLaren has gained 57 points in 4 races, impressive.

That’s a hell of a comparison!

Kudos to Lando, his pace differential vs Oscar was noteworthy today, and being able to put in fast lap after fast lap off the front is not easy.

Max is definitely in for some tough competition, but it was interesting to see that outside of Lando, no-one was coming close. Hats of to Charles for stellar performance, Lewis clawing up from 14th wasn’t bad, but much less switching around mid pack….not a good day at the office for Aston, couldn’t hold back RB, Ferrari, McLaren or Mercedes today.

GuidoK wrote

Good pitstop for Max.

Max' lead in the WDC is 78 points with 10 races to go (incl this one).
So Lando has to beat Max with 7,8 points per race.
That is possible if Lando scores a lot of FL.

Or if McLaren didn't force him to give those points to Oscar.